The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **SteveG48** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:11 am

Code: Select all: *-----------* |39.|..6|1.7| |7..|.8.|..5| |.1.|...|...| |---+---+---| |.8.|.1.|25.| |...|...|...| |.64|.7.|.9.| |---+---+---| |...|...|58.| |2..|.3.|..1| |8.1|9..|.42| *-----------*

Here's one that I found in this morning's local newspaper. It succumbs readily to 2 easy chains (with basics in between), but I haven't found a single-stepper that pleased me.

by **Marty R.** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:10 am

Code: Select all: +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 9 8 7 | 34 1 34 | 2 5 6 | | 5 23 23 | 68 69 89 | 7 1 4 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6

by **blue** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:43 am

This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all: +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 9 8 7 | 346 1 34 | 2 5 46 | | 5 23 23 | 468 469 489 | 7 1 46 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

by **SteveG48** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:22 pm

Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 9 8 7 | 34 1 34 | 2 5 6 | | 5 23 23 | 68 69 89 | 7 1 4 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6

Good one, but it doesn't solve the puzzle. Actually, something similar, eliminating the 9 at r8c7, was my first move when I was solving it manually.

by **Marty R.** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:07 pm

SteveG48 wrote:
Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 9 8 7 | 34 1 34 | 2 5 6 | | 5 23 23 | 68 69 89 | 7 1 4 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6

Good one, but it doesn't solve the puzzle. Actually, something similar, eliminating the 9 at r8c7, was my first move when I was solving it manually.

Steve, I did it manually and it solved. Just now I did it on Draw/Play and it solved there as well.

by **SteveG48** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:17 pm

Marty R. wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:
Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 9 8 7 | 34 1 34 | 2 5 6 | | 5 23 23 | 68 69 89 | 7 1 4 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +------------+----------------+-----------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6

Good one, but it doesn't solve the puzzle. Actually, something similar, eliminating the 9 at r8c7, was my first move when I was solving it manually.

Steve, I did it manually and it solved. Just now I did it on Draw/Play and it solved there as well.

Hmm. Your starting grid is different from mine and Blue's. For example, I show (46)r45c9. You show these as solved.

by **SteveG48** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:31 pm

blue wrote:This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 9 8 7 | 346 1 34 | 2 5 46 | | 5 23 23 | 468 469 489 | 7 1 46 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

Bear with me, Blue. I love what you're doing here, but I'm a lousy fisherman!

I understand the link between the fish, showing that either r5c5 or r8c6 is not a 4. If it's the latter, then the second finned x-wing gives you your elimination. However, if r5c5 is not a 4, then I see a finned x-wing at r37c15, but it doesn't eliminate anything on row 2. I don't see a fish at c15r7b1, but maybe I'm not understanding the notation. Help!

by **Marty R.** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:33 pm

Hmm. Your starting grid is different from mine and Blue's. For example, I show (46)r45c9. You show these as solved.

I screwed up the basics, an ongoing problem.

by **daj95376** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:27 pm

blue wrote:This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 9 8 7 | 346 1 34 | 2 5 46 | | 5 23 23 | 468 469 489 | 7 1 46 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

A Kraken Column using (mostly) Blue's streams. (note, a network is used for r5c5.)

Code: Select all: (4-5)r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2 (4-9)r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = (8-4)r8c6 \ 4 r5c5 - 4r1c5 = 4r1c4 - 4r8c4 = 4r8c2 - 4r2c2 4 r7c5 - 4r7c12 = 4r8c2 - 4r2c2

Steve,

The key to understanding Blue's solution is to assume r1c5<>4 for the fishy part, and to assume it is true in the remote fin linkage.

Code: Select all: -4r1c5: (x-wing (4)c15\r7b1) = (4-9)r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = (8-4)r8c6 = (x-wing (4)r18\c24) - 4r2c2 (4-5)r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

by **blue** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:54 pm

SteveG48 wrote:
blue wrote:This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 3 9 8 | 45 45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 24 26 | 13 8 139 | 49 36 5 | | 46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 9 8 7 | 346 1 34 | 2 5 46 | | 5 23 23 | 468 469 489 | 7 1 46 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+ | 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | 458 3 458 | 69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 56 57 | 36 4 2 | +--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

Bear with me, Blue. I love what you're doing here, but I'm a lousy fisherman!

I understand the link between the fish, showing that either r5c5 or r8c6 is not a 4. If it's the latter, then the second finned x-wing gives you your elimination. However, if r5c5 is not a 4, then I see a finned x-wing at r37c15, but it doesn't eliminate anything on row 2. I don't see a fish at c15r7b1, but maybe I'm not understanding the notation. Help!

Hi Steve,

The other fish (x-wing) is more like a skyscraper with the ground floor in r7 and towers in c15.
The candidate at r1c5 doesn't have a direct link to r2c2, though.
Instead, it has the "remote linkage" path.

P.S. I see DAJ covered it too.

by **Leren** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Deleted - found error.

Leren

by **SteveG48** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:26 pm

daj95376 wrote:Steve,

The key to understanding Blue's solution is to assume r1c5<>4 for the fishy part, and to assume it is true in the remote fin linkage.

Thanks, DAJ. I understood the remote link part and one of the fish. It was the other fish that was escaping me.

by **SteveG48** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:29 pm

blue wrote:Hi Steve,

The other fish (x-wing) is more like a skyscraper with the ground floor in r7 and towers in c15.
The candidate at r1c5 doesn't have a direct link to r2c2, though.
Instead, it has the "remote linkage" path.

P.S. I see DAJ covered it too.

Hi, Blue. Thanks. I was the "skyscraper fish" that was escaping me. I see it now. This thing is a work of art!

by **blue** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:37 pm

SteveG48 wrote:I see it now. This thing is a work of art!

Much appreciated !

by **daj95376** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:02 am

Skyscraper???

A slightly different spin on Blue's cells and chain segments.

Code: Select all: +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 3 9 8 | i45 h45 6 | 1 2 7 | | 7 c24 26 | 13 8 139 | d49 36 5 | | b46 1 5 | 237 29 2379 | 489 36 89 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 9 8 7 | 346 1 34 | 2 5 46 | | 5 23 23 | 468 m469 l489 | 7 1 46 | | 1 6 4 | 25 7 25 | 38 9 38 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | a46 347 369 | b12467 b246 b1247 | 5 8 39 | | 2 45 69 | j458 3 k458 | e69 7 1 | | 8 357 1 | 9 g56 57 | f36 4 2 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ # 64 eliminations remain 4r7c1 - #4r7c456,r3c1 = 4r2c2 - (4=9)r2c7 - (9=6)r8c7 - 6r9c7 = (6-5)r9c5 = (5-#4)r1c5 = ... ... 4r1c4 - 4r8c4 = (4-8)r8c6 = (8-9)r5c6 = (9-#4)r5c5; #r157c5<>4 contradiction => r7c1<>4

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