Steve's Stumble II

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Steve's Stumble II

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:11 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |39.|..6|1.7|
 |7..|.8.|..5|
 |.1.|...|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |.8.|.1.|25.|
 |...|...|...|
 |.64|.7.|.9.|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|...|58.|
 |2..|.3.|..1|
 |8.1|9..|.42|
 *-----------*


Here's one that I found in this morning's local newspaper. It succumbs readily to 2 easy chains (with basics in between), but I haven't found a single-stepper that pleased me.
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby Marty R. » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:10 am

Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 3  9   8   | 45    45  6    | 1   2  7  |
| 7  24  26  | 13    8   139  | 49  36 5  |
| 46 1   5   | 237   29  2379 | 489 36 89 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 9  8   7   | 34    1   34   | 2   5  6  |
| 5  23  23  | 68    69  89   | 7   1  4  |
| 1  6   4   | 25    7   25   | 38  9  38 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5   8  39 |
| 2  45  69  | 458   3   458  | 69  7  1  |
| 8  357 1   | 9     56  57   | 36  4  2  |
+------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6
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Postby blue » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:43 am

This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 3   9    8   | 45     45   6    | 1    2   7  |
| 7   24   26  | 13     8    139  | 49   36  5  |
| 46  1    5   | 237    29   2379 | 489  36  89 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 9   8    7   | 346    1    34   | 2    5   46 |
| 5   23   23  | 468    469  489  | 7    1   46 |
| 1   6    4   | 25     7    25   | 38   9   38 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 46  347  369 | 12467  246  1247 | 5    8   39 |
| 2   45   69  | 458    3    458  | 69   7   1  |
| 8   357  1   | 9      56   57   | 36   4   2  |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:22 pm

Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 3  9   8   | 45    45  6    | 1   2  7  |
| 7  24  26  | 13    8   139  | 49  36 5  |
| 46 1   5   | 237   29  2379 | 489 36 89 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 9  8   7   | 34    1   34   | 2   5  6  |
| 5  23  23  | 68    69  89   | 7   1  4  |
| 1  6   4   | 25    7   25   | 38  9  38 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5   8  39 |
| 2  45  69  | 458   3   458  | 69  7  1  |
| 8  357 1   | 9     56  57   | 36  4  2  |
+------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6


Good one, but it doesn't solve the puzzle. Actually, something similar, eliminating the 9 at r8c7, was my first move when I was solving it manually.
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby Marty R. » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:07 pm

SteveG48 wrote:
Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 3  9   8   | 45    45  6    | 1   2  7  |
| 7  24  26  | 13    8   139  | 49  36 5  |
| 46 1   5   | 237   29  2379 | 489 36 89 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 9  8   7   | 34    1   34   | 2   5  6  |
| 5  23  23  | 68    69  89   | 7   1  4  |
| 1  6   4   | 25    7   25   | 38  9  38 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5   8  39 |
| 2  45  69  | 458   3   458  | 69  7  1  |
| 8  357 1   | 9     56  57   | 36  4  2  |
+------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6


Good one, but it doesn't solve the puzzle. Actually, something similar, eliminating the 9 at r8c7, was my first move when I was solving it manually.


Steve, I did it manually and it solved. Just now I did it on Draw/Play and it solved there as well.
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:17 pm

Marty R. wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:
Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 3  9   8   | 45    45  6    | 1   2  7  |
| 7  24  26  | 13    8   139  | 49  36 5  |
| 46 1   5   | 237   29  2379 | 489 36 89 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 9  8   7   | 34    1   34   | 2   5  6  |
| 5  23  23  | 68    69  89   | 7   1  4  |
| 1  6   4   | 25    7   25   | 38  9  38 |
+------------+----------------+-----------+
| 46 347 369 | 12467 246 1247 | 5   8  39 |
| 2  45  69  | 458   3   458  | 69  7  1  |
| 8  357 1   | 9     56  57   | 36  4  2  |
+------------+----------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(6=4)r7c1-r78c2=r2c2-(4=9)r2c7-r3c9=r7c9-(9=6)r8c7=>r8c3<>6


Good one, but it doesn't solve the puzzle. Actually, something similar, eliminating the 9 at r8c7, was my first move when I was solving it manually.


Steve, I did it manually and it solved. Just now I did it on Draw/Play and it solved there as well.


Hmm. Your starting grid is different from mine and Blue's. For example, I show (46)r45c9. You show these as solved.
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Re:

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:31 pm

blue wrote:This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 3   9    8   | 45     45   6    | 1    2   7  |
| 7   24   26  | 13     8    139  | 49   36  5  |
| 46  1    5   | 237    29   2379 | 489  36  89 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 9   8    7   | 346    1    34   | 2    5   46 |
| 5   23   23  | 468    469  489  | 7    1   46 |
| 1   6    4   | 25     7    25   | 38   9   38 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 46  347  369 | 12467  246  1247 | 5    8   39 |
| 2   45   69  | 458    3    458  | 69   7   1  |
| 8   357  1   | 9      56   57   | 36   4   2  |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2


Bear with me, Blue. I love what you're doing here, but I'm a lousy fisherman!

I understand the link between the fish, showing that either r5c5 or r8c6 is not a 4. If it's the latter, then the second finned x-wing gives you your elimination. However, if r5c5 is not a 4, then I see a finned x-wing at r37c15, but it doesn't eliminate anything on row 2. I don't see a fish at c15r7b1, but maybe I'm not understanding the notation. Help!
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby Marty R. » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:33 pm

Hmm. Your starting grid is different from mine and Blue's. For example, I show (46)r45c9. You show these as solved.


I screwed up the basics, an ongoing problem. :(
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Re:

Postby daj95376 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:27 pm

blue wrote:This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 3   9    8   | 45     45   6    | 1    2   7  |
| 7   24   26  | 13     8    139  | 49   36  5  |
| 46  1    5   | 237    29   2379 | 489  36  89 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 9   8    7   | 346    1    34   | 2    5   46 |
| 5   23   23  | 468    469  489  | 7    1   46 |
| 1   6    4   | 25     7    25   | 38   9   38 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 46  347  369 | 12467  246  1247 | 5    8   39 |
| 2   45   69  | 458    3    458  | 69   7   1  |
| 8   357  1   | 9      56   57   | 36   4   2  |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

A Kraken Column using (mostly) Blue's streams. (note, a network is used for r5c5.)

Code: Select all
(4-5)r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2

(4-9)r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = (8-4)r8c6 \
 4   r5c5 - 4r1c5 = 4r1c4 - 4r8c4 = 4r8c2 - 4r2c2

 4   r7c5 - 4r7c12 = 4r8c2 - 4r2c2


Steve,

The key to understanding Blue's solution is to assume r1c5<>4 for the fishy part, and to assume it is true in the remote fin linkage.

Code: Select all
-4r1c5: (x-wing (4)c15\r7b1) = (4-9)r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = (8-4)r8c6 = (x-wing (4)r18\c24) - 4r2c2

(4-5)r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2
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Re: Re:

Postby blue » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:54 pm

SteveG48 wrote:
blue wrote:This is fairly complex, but ...

Code: Select all
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 3   9    8   | 45     45   6    | 1    2   7  |
| 7   24   26  | 13     8    139  | 49   36  5  |
| 46  1    5   | 237    29   2379 | 489  36  89 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 9   8    7   | 346    1    34   | 2    5   46 |
| 5   23   23  | 468    469  489  | 7    1   46 |
| 1   6    4   | 25     7    25   | 38   9   38 |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+
| 46  347  369 | 12467  246  1247 | 5    8   39 |
| 2   45   69  | 458    3    458  | 69   7   1  |
| 8   357  1   | 9      56   57   | 36   4   2  |
+--------------+------------------+-------------+

(remotely finned x-wing (4)c15\r7b1 + 4r1c5) = 4r5c5
- 9r5c5 = (9-8)r5c6 = 8r8c6 -
4r8c6 = (remotely finned x-wing (4)r18\c24 + 4r1c5)

=> -4r2c2; stte

remote fin linkage: 4r1c5 - 5r1c5 = (5-6)r9c5 = 6r9c7 - (6=9)r8c7 - (9=4)r2c7 - 4r2c2


Bear with me, Blue. I love what you're doing here, but I'm a lousy fisherman!

I understand the link between the fish, showing that either r5c5 or r8c6 is not a 4. If it's the latter, then the second finned x-wing gives you your elimination. However, if r5c5 is not a 4, then I see a finned x-wing at r37c15, but it doesn't eliminate anything on row 2. I don't see a fish at c15r7b1, but maybe I'm not understanding the notation. Help!

Hi Steve,

The other fish (x-wing) is more like a skyscraper with the ground floor in r7 and towers in c15.
The candidate at r1c5 doesn't have a direct link to r2c2, though.
Instead, it has the "remote linkage" path.

P.S. I see DAJ covered it too.
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby Leren » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:24 pm

Deleted - found error.

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Last edited by Leren on Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Re:

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:26 pm

daj95376 wrote:Steve,

The key to understanding Blue's solution is to assume r1c5<>4 for the fishy part, and to assume it is true in the remote fin linkage.


Thanks, DAJ. I understood the remote link part and one of the fish. It was the other fish that was escaping me.
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Re: Re:

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:29 pm

blue wrote:Hi Steve,

The other fish (x-wing) is more like a skyscraper with the ground floor in r7 and towers in c15.
The candidate at r1c5 doesn't have a direct link to r2c2, though.
Instead, it has the "remote linkage" path.

P.S. I see DAJ covered it too.


Hi, Blue. Thanks. I was the "skyscraper fish" that was escaping me. I see it now. This thing is a work of art!
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Re: Re:

Postby blue » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:37 pm

SteveG48 wrote:I see it now. This thing is a work of art!

Much appreciated !
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Re: Steve's Stumble II

Postby daj95376 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:02 am

Skyscraper???

A slightly different spin on Blue's cells and chain segments.

Code: Select all
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  3      9      8      | i45    h45     6      |  1      2      7      |
 |  7     c24     26     |  13     8      139    | d49     36     5      |
 | b46     1      5      |  237    29     2379   |  489    36     89     |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  9      8      7      |  346    1      34     |  2      5      46     |
 |  5      23     23     |  468   m469   l489    |  7      1      46     |
 |  1      6      4      |  25     7      25     |  38     9      38     |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 | a46     347    369    | b12467 b246   b1247   |  5      8      39     |
 |  2      45     69     | j458    3     k458    | e69     7      1      |
 |  8      357    1      |  9     g56     57     | f36     4      2      |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 64 eliminations remain

 4r7c1 - #4r7c456,r3c1 = 4r2c2 - (4=9)r2c7 - (9=6)r8c7 - 6r9c7 = (6-5)r9c5 = (5-#4)r1c5 = ...
 ... 4r1c4 - 4r8c4 = (4-8)r8c6 = (8-9)r5c6 = (9-#4)r5c5;  #r157c5<>4  contradiction  =>  r7c1<>4
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