The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Mauricio]

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | . . . | . . 2 |
| . 2 . | . 3 . | . 4 . |
| . . . | 5 . 1 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 6 | . . . | 1 . . |
| . 3 . | 2 . . | . 7 . |
| . . 8 | . 7 . | 6 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 7 . 5 | . . . |
| . 7 . | . 4 . | . 5 . |
| 9 . . | . . . | . . 8 |
+-------+-------+-------+   ER 4.7


My last one.

[JPF]

Code: Select all

 1 . . | . . . | . . 2
 . 3 . | . 4 . | . 5 .
 . . . | 6 . 7 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . 5 | . . . | 8 . .
 . 4 . | 3 . . | . 9 .
 . . 7 | . 2 . | 6 . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 8 . 9 | . . .
 . 2 . | . 3 . | . 4 .
 5 . . | . . . | . . 1     ER=9.7
 

JPF

[Mauricio]

Here are the current scores, without the penalty and bonus points.

Code: Select all

JPF               541

Mauricio          419

m_b_metcalf       374

Coloin            102

wintder             1

Here are the "discovered ' ratings to date: (57)

Please post the correct counts, if there are 57 rating (at that time), then the sum of the scores without penalties should be 1+2+...+57=57*58/2=1653, but the sum of scores is 1437.

[m_b_metcalf]

Here are the current scores, without the penalty and bonus points.

Code: Select all

wintder             1

I'm curious as to why you dealt but didn't participate. Anyway, I'm also done.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

[wintder]

Here are the current scores, without the penalty and bonus points.

Code: Select all

JPF               541

Mauricio          419

m_b_metcalf       374

Coloin            102

wintder             1

Here are the "discovered ' ratings to date: (57)

Please post the correct counts, if there are 57 rating (at that time), then the sum of the scores without penalties should be 1+2+...+57=57*58/2=1653, but the sum of scores is 1437.

I got them all wrong but mine. I will correct that post in a minute or three. I used a calculator this time. It is clear I can't add.

Cleverly, my wife does the banking.

Here they are:

Code: Select all

JPF               778

Mauricio          457

m_b_metcalf       335

Coloin             82

wintder             1

[wintder]

Here are the current scores, without the penalty and bonus points.

Code: Select all

wintder             1

I'm curious as to why you dealt but didn't participate. Anyway, I'm also done.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

Well, I cannot win, Mauricio and m_b_metcalf are finished.

Coloin, can we concede JPF the winner and have him deal a new one?



I got mesmerized in the details.

I was just enjoying the heck out of the rapid posting and watching the trends. I did try later on but the easy ones were long gone. I did an 8 hour "rate" today and came up empty.

I also made some forms I like, printed out, to keep track of what's gone.
I then found gsar (for windows) and made up a bat file to strip out "Difficulty: ?.?" so I could quickly check whether I had anything good.

I hadn't planned on missing the game but I was having fun, anyway, and game related. I was quite surprised at how much work is involved in dealing. (Understatement.) I had pm-ed our missing friend (TTHsieh) with some patterns, like this, that generate few non-minimals and, I guess, because of TTH pending absence TTH just pretty much thought I should run with it. Well, how TTH did all that posting and kept on top of the scores etc.... I am in awe.

[Mauricio]

I did an 8 hour "rate" today and came up empty.

Here is my log about what I did in this last game:
First I was lucky enough to see this game when it was beginning, so I give it a try to the pattern, and my generator could output about 1 puzzle/second "randomly", that is very fast for random generation, but it is slow for "specialized" algorithms (n off/n on). I generated about 100 random puzzles and then input them to the specialized generator.

Having heard of wintder warning on ratings, I decided to add a rating constraint in my generator (a rating that I have implemented, more or less correlated with SE on the higher rated puzzles). As you can see, my first 3 puzzles had ratings 9+, and they were the only 3 I rated, they were the highest rated by my program.

As the next option was to mass-rate puzzles, then I decided to filter only the easiest puzzles that are not singles only (according to my rating). Having generated ~3000 of those puzzles in no more than 10 minutes, I rated them with SE, it took no more than 15 minutes. Long ago I coded something to analize the output given by SE, then I posted what I found.

Then I give one more try to my generator, and ran it until I had 10K puzzles, then I rated them with SE (50 minutes) and analized the output. I found just one more rating, then I decided to call it a day.

At night I decided to look exhaustively for all puzzles that are automorphic if you reflect along the antidiagonal (50 minutes). I found only 114 essentialy different puzzles of that kind, and just one more rating (9.8), in fact, take this puzzle:

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | . . . | . . 2 |
| . 3 . | . 4 . | . 5 . |
| . . . | 6 . 7 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 2 | . . . | 8 . . |
| . 8 . | 2 . . | . 9 . |
| . . 5 | . 7 . | 6 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 5 . 4 | . . . |
| . 6 . | . 9 . | . 1 . |
| 7 . . | . . . | . . 3 |
+-------+-------+-------+  ER 9.8

do c123456789->r987456321, and you get

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------+
| 2 . . | . . . | . . 1 |
| . 5 . | . 4 . | . 3 . |
| . . . | 6 . 7 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 8 | . . . | 2 . . |
| . 9 . | 2 . . | . 8 . |
| . . 6 | . 7 . | 5 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 5 . 4 | . . . |
| . 1 . | . 9 . | . 6 . |
| 3 . . | . . . | . . 7 |
+-------+-------+-------+


if you reflect along the antidiagonal and do the digit permutation 1->1,3->3,9->9,2->7,7->2,4->8,8->4,5->6,6->5, then you obtain the same puzzle, using a uniqueness technique we asure r7c3=r3c7=9 and then the rating drops to 6.6. And that was it.

[wintder]

I did an 8 hour "rate" today and came up empty.

Here is my log about what I did in this last game:
First I was lucky enough to see this game when it was beginning, so I give it a try to the pattern, and my generator could output about 1 puzzle/second "randomly", that is very fast for random generation, but it is slow for "specialized" algorithms (n off/n on). I generated about 100 if you reflect along the antidiagonal and do the digit permutation

.......


1->1,3->3,9->9,2->7,7->2,4->8,8->4,5->6,6->5, then you obtain the same puzzle, using a uniqueness technique we asure r7c3=r3c7=9 and then the rating drops to 6.6. And that was it.

I wanted to ask you about "automorphic" and see you explained it, but I did not understand.

There is lots that I don't understand. Nothing new in that, I don't follow much.

[coloin]

Yes it was a good game. and im long finished.
Being in on the beginning was useful - i missed the previous game, by the time I got generating.

Perhaps we could have a countdown to a world time for the next game !

As to the pattern, im not sure if it makes any difference whether you have a pattern which is easy to generate or not. Certainly a very symmetrical pattern will have more automorphisms,as in a previous pattern.

I will try not to pick up yellow cards next time !

Ive have now studied the bonus point rules and penalties.

C

[JPF]

Code: Select all

 1 . . | . . . | . . 2
 . 3 . | . 4 . | . 5 .
 . . . | 6 . 7 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . 8 | . . . | 7 . .
 . 9 . | 4 . . | . 3 .
 . . 1 | . 9 . | 8 . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 3 . 6 | . . .
 . 2 . | . 5 . | . 9 .
 5 . . | . . . | . . 3    ER=10.0



And if I may, here are some non posted ratings :

100000002030040050000607000008000700070300040009070800000906000020030060500000001 # 9.6
100000002030040050000603000007000800050300060003060900000708000020090040500000001 # 9.5


Interesting pattern with a lot of ratings (62) and, fortunately, with reasonable ERs.

I will make some comments on the rules and their necessity (wintder) and will start a new game in 4 hours.

JPF

[wintder]

And if I may, here are some non posted ratings :

100000002030040050000607000008000700070300040009070800000906000020030060500000001 # 9.6
100000002030040050000603000007000800050300060003060900000708000020090040500000001 # 9.5


JPF

Wow, you found a lot JPF!!

Coloin's edited post shows the danger of believing udosuk's well intentioned advice. You can see that coloin started to edit when it was the last post and he finished within a minute but was no longer the last post and was thus marked "edited".


Final scores:

Code: Select all

JPF               897+60+60=   1017

Mauricio          515      =    515

m_b_metcalf       335      =    335

Coloin             82  -50 =     32

wintder             1  -20 =    -19


Here are the "discovered ' ratings at the end (62) :

Code: Select all

1.2  1.5  1.7
2.0  2.3  2.5  2.6  2.8
3.0  3.2  3.4  3.6  3.8
4.0  4.2  4.4  4.5  4.6
5.2  5.6  5.7  5.8  5.9
6.2  6.5  6.6  6.69 6.7  6.8  6.9
7.0  7.1  7.2  7.3  7.4  7.5  7.6  7.7  7.8  7.9
8.0  8.1  8.2  8.3  8.4  8.5  8.6  8.7  8.8  8.9
9.0  9.1  9.2  9.3  9.4  9.5  9.6  9.7  9.8  9.9
10.0

Here are the puzzles.

7.......6.1..2..3....6.5.....5...2...4.3...1...3.9.7.....8.7....9..1..2.6.......7 # 1.5 Wintder
7.......6.1..2..3....6.5.....5...2...4.3...6...3.9.7.....8.7....9..1..2.6.......7 # 7.1 m_b_metcalf
9.......1.1..2..3....5.8.....5...6...6.2...4...3.5.8.....3.6....4..7..2.7.......9 # 9.0 coloin
2.......4.1..2..3....6.5.....5...2...4.3...1...3.9.6.....8.7....9..1..2.6.......5 # 7.8 m_b_metcalf
5.......7.1..2..3....4.9.....8...5...4.5...9...6.7.4.....6.2....7..8..4.3.......8 # 2.0 coloin
2.......4.1..3..9....6.5.....5...2...4.3...1...3.9.6.....8.7....9..1..2.6.......5 # 7.7 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...5.8...3...6.4.9.....3.9....8..2..1.2.......7 # 9.1 Mauricio
4.......7.1..2..3....7.8.....7...8...3.9...2...5.7.4.....1.5....8..6..5.2.......6 # 8.3 coloin

1.......2.7..3..5....9.8.....3...2...5.7...9...8.4.3.....5.4....3..7..4.6.......1 # 7.6 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..4..5....6.3.....7...8...4.3...6...9.6.7.....8.9....2..3..4.5.......1 # 9.3 Mauricio
2.......4.1..3..2....6.5.....5...2...4.3...1...3.9.6.....8.7....9..1..3.6.......5 # 6.999 m_b_metcalf
9.......5.1..2..3....1.3.....5...6...2.7...4...1.3.8.....4.6....4..9..1.8.......3 # 4.4 coloin
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...1...6.8...3...7.5.9.....3.9....8..2..4.2.......1 # 8.8 JPF
9.......5.1..2..3....1.3.....5...6...2.7...4...1.3.8.....4.1....4..9..8.8.......3 # 3.8 coloin
1.......2.3..4..5....6.2.....3...1...6.7...3...2.5.8.....3.8....7..9..4.9.......1 # 7.2 JPF
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....5...7...6.3...8...7.9.4.....8.4....9..3..6.2.......1 # 9.4 Mauricio

1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...1...6.2...3...7.5.8.....3.8....2..9..4.9.......1 # 8.4 JPF
6.......4.1..2..3....3.8.....1...5...2.5...6...4.3.7.....7.4....3..8..2.5.......9 # 9.2 coloin
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...5.2...3...6.4.8.....3.7....2..9..1.9.......7 # 8.5 JPF
2.......4.5..3..2....7.1.....1...4...2.5...1...3.9.6.....8.7....9..1..3.6.......5 # 6.8 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...5.8...3...6.4.2.....3.2....8..9..1.6.......7 # 6.6 JPF
5.......7.1..2..3....4.9.....8...5...4.5...9...6.7.4.....6.1....3..4..6.7.......8 # 8.9 coloin
1.......8.2..9..6....3.6.....2...9...8.7...1...6.1.8.....2.1....5..6..9.4.......7 # 1.2 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...8.9...3...6.4.8.....3.8....9..2..1.2.......9 # 2.6 JPF
9.......4.5..3..8....6.7.....1...4...8.5...7...7.9.3.....4.2....2..1..3.6.......5 # 2.3 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...5.8...3...6.4.9.....3.9....8..6..1.2.......6 # 4.5 JPF
5.......4.6..1..3....7.2.....2...6...8.5...1...1.3.7.....1.8....3..2..6.6.......5 # 2.8 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...8.9...3...6.4.8.....3.8....9..2..1.6.......7 # 8.2 JPF
4.......7.5..8..6....1.3.....3...1...9.6...8...8.4.5.....5.2....8..7..2.5.......4 # 3.0 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...1...6.2...3...7.5.8.....3.8....2..6..4.9.......1 # 7.9 JPF

4.......7.5..8..9....1.3.....3...2...9.2...8...8.4.5.....8.9....1..7..2.5.......4 # 4.0 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.2..3..4....5.4.....6...7...4.3...8...8.7.9.....4.7....6..8..2.5.......6 # 1.7 Mauricio
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...8...6.9...3...7.6.1.....3.1....2..9..4.9.......8 # 7.5 JPF
2.......7.5..8..9....1.4.....3...9...9.7...8...8.2.4.....8.9....1..7..2.5.......4 # 5.6 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..4..5....5.6.....3...7...5.7...3...6.8.9.....3.9....7..2..4.2.......1 # 7.3 JPF
1.......2.3..8..5....6.7.....5...7...6.3...8...7.9.4.....9.6....1..3..9.2.......1 # 5.7 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..4..5....6.2.....3...1...6.7...3...2.6.8.....3.7....7..9..4.9.......1 # 6.7 JPF
3.......4.6..1..5....2.7.....2...4...8.5...9...7.9.3.....4.6....2..8..6.1.......3 # 7.4 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...1...8.1...3...7.5.8.....3.8....5..2..4.2.......1 # 6.5 JPF
1.......6.7..5..4....2.1.....3...5...4.7...9...8.4.3.....8.3....5..9..7.6.......1 # 4.2 m_b_metcalf
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...1...6.7...3...8.5.2.....3.2....7..9..4.9.......1 # 5.9 JPF
1.......2.2..1..3....4.5.....1...6...6.2...7...8.4.5.....7.8....7..3..8.9.......6 # 3.4 Mauricio
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...1.4...8...6.2.9.....3.9....4..8..1.8.......7 # 8.6 JPF

1.......2.2..1..3....4.5.....5...6...6.7...4...3.4.8.....6.1....1..3..2.8.......7 # 3.2 Mauricio
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....3...7...6.4...3...7.5.8.....3.8....4..2..1.2.......8 # 2.5 JPF
1.......2.2..3..4....5.4.....2...6...5.4...3...3.7.1.....1.6....8..9..5.7.......8 # 3.6 Mauricio
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....7...8...5.4...3...6.9.7.....3.8....4..2..9.2.......8 # 8.7 JPF
1.......2.2..1..3....4.5.....5...4...3.1...5...2.6.7.....7.2....8..9..1.4.......6 # 4.6 Mauricio
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...5.8...3...6.2.9.....3.5....8..4..1.4.......7 # 8.0 JPF
1.......2.2..3..4....4.5.....6...1...4.3...7...8.6.3.....8.6....3..7..2.5.......8 # 5.2 Mauricio
1.......2.3..4..5....5.1.....3...6...5.7...3...8.6.2.....3.9....7..2..4.2.......1 # 6.9 JPF
1.......2.2..3..4....5.6.....2...1...5.4...3...7.5.6.....1.4....4..8..5.6.......7 # 7.0 Mauricio
1.......2.3..2..4....5.4.....6...7...8.3...5...7.5.9.....9.6....2..3..8.4.......1 # 9.9 JPF
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....2...8...8.2...9...5.7.6.....5.4....6..9..1.7.......3 # 9.8 Mauricio
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...5...7.1...3...6.4.8.....3.7....9..2..1.2.......5 # 8.1 JPF
1.......2.3..1..4....5.2.....5...6...7.4...5...8.3.9.....6.8....4..7..1.2.......3 # 6.2 Mauricio
1.......2.3..1..4....5.6.....3...7...5.8...3...6.4.2.....3.2....6..9..1.4.......7 # 5.8 JPF

1.......2.2..3..4....5.1.....6...1...3.2...7...8.7.6.....7.5....7..4..5.9.......8 # 4.7 Mauricio
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....5...8...4.3...9...7.2.6.....8.9....2..3..4.5.......1 # 9.7 JPF
1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....8...7...9.4...3...1.9.8.....3.6....2..5..9.5.......3 # 10! JPF

Added by JPF and not counted as we had all given up.

1.......2.3..4..5....6.7.....8...7...7.3...4...9.7.8.....9.6....2..3..6.5.......1 # 9.6 JPF
1.......2.3..4..5....6.3.....7...8...5.3...6...3.6.9.....7.8....2..9..4.5.......1 # 9.5 JPF

[JPF]

General comments on the rules...

I don't know one game without rules ; even Sudoku has One !

I cannot understand people who play a game they don't like the rules.

One of the dealer's job is to act as a referee : to enforce the rules, not to criticize them during a game.
btw, it's also the dealer's job to give (from time to time) the current score, the summary of the posted ratings and the final situation as well.

The actual rules are compromises between many brilliant players according to the evolution of the game since the beginning.

Perhaps we could have a countdown to a world time for the next game !

It is what we are doing, but the Earth is a sphere...

Coloin's edited post shows the danger of believing udosuk's well intentioned advice. You can see that coloin started to edit when it was the last post and he finished within a minute but was no longer the last post and was thus marked "edited".

The rule concerning the "edited puzzle" is obviously a necessity, if you take some minute to think about it.

Anyway, the score is not the main purpose of this game which should remain the fun and some knowledge on different patterns.

JPF

[coloin]

I totally agree, the edited post was an edited post.

if you take some minute to think about it.

Well I took a minute to add another OT comment - penalty.

Anyway, the score is not the main purpose of this game which should remain the fun and some knowledge on different patterns

Absolutement

I am having problems with the internal clock/post times - they keep changing

What time does the next game start ? {GMT}

And finally - Well done on the 10.0...

C

[JPF]

New pattern :

Code: Select all

 . 1 . | . . . | . 2 .
 . . 3 | . . . | 4 . .
 . . . | 4 . 5 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . 6 | . 7 . | 8 . .
 . 5 . | . 3 . | . 1 .
 4 . . | . . . | . . 6
-------+-------+-------
 . 6 . | . . . | . 3 .
 . . 9 | . . . | 2 . .
 . . . | 6 5 2 | . . .    ER=1.5



Code: Select all

010000020003000400000405000006070800050030010400000006060000030009000200000652000

JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

Code: Select all

 . 9 . . . . . 2 .
 . . 3 . . . 4 . .
 . . . 4 . 5 . . .
 . . 6 . 7 . 8 . .
 . 5 . . 3 . . 1 .
 4 . . . . . . . 6
 . 6 . . . . . 3 .
 . . 1 . . . 2 . .
 . . . 6 5 2 . . .  SE 7.2


Regards,

Mike Metcalf