The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **TTHsieh** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:14 am

Code: Select all: current posted ratings : 36 1.5 - 1.7 - 2.0 - 2.3 - 2.5 - 2.6 - 3.0 - 3.2 - 3.4 - 3.6 4.0 - 4.2 - 4.4 - 4.5 - 4.6 - 5.0 - 5.6 - 5.7 - 6.5 - 6.6 6.7 - 6.8 - 6.9 - 7.0 - 7.1 - 7.2 - 7.3 - 7.4 - 7.5 - 7.8 8.2 - 8.3 - 8.4 - 8.5 - 8.9 - 9.0

TTHsieh

by **TTHsieh** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:15 am

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . 1 | . 2 . | 3 . . . 3 2 | . 4 . | 5 1 . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | 6 . 7 | . . . . 1 5 | . . . | 7 6 . . . . | 8 . 4 | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . 5 6 | . 9 . | 2 3 . . . 7 | . 8 . | 1 . . . . . | . . . | . . . ER=2.8

TTHsieh

by **wintder** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:20 am

I am done on this pattern, a very nice one!

by **TTHsieh** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:09 pm

wintder wrote:...a very nice one!

Thanks.

Two patterns in this thread as below :

wrote: wrote:

000000000001010100011010110000101000011000110000101000011010110001010100000000000

ER=3.2 > 55%, so this pattern can be called X-Wings Pattern.

001000100000010000101010101000101000011000110000101000101010101000010000001000100

ER=1.5 > 75%, so this pattern can be called Hidden Singles Pattern.

Why the two patterns are so different ?

TTHsieh

by **JPF** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:25 pm

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . 1 | . 2 . | 3 . . . 4 5 | . 6 . | 7 8 . -------+-------+------- . . . | 3 . 2 | . . . . 9 7 | . . . | 1 5 . . . . | 1 . 5 | . . . -------+-------+------- . 6 4 | . 3 . | 8 9 . . . 9 | . 8 . | 4 . . . . . | . . . | . . . ER=4.7

JPF

by **TTHsieh** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:33 pm

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . 1 | . 2 . | 3 . . . 4 5 | . 6 . | 7 1 . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | 2 . 8 | . . . . 9 7 | . . . | 4 5 . . . . | 9 . 5 | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . 7 6 | . 8 . | 2 4 . . . 4 | . 3 . | 6 . . . . . | . . . | . . . ER=7.6

TTHsieh

by **wintder** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:06 pm

TTHsieh wrote:Why the two patterns are so different ?

TTHsieh

The first has a far higher probability that an x-wing or swordfish is involved.

r357 and c357 are just asking for them.

The second has r37 or c37 possible but r5 and c5 are not associated so swordfish are not likely.

by **ravel** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:59 pm

Also it is very likely in general, that a minimal puzzle with 24 random clues can be solved with singles, probably with an even higher percentage than the second one.
But in the first one the 4 empty units make the pattern harder. As wintder said, it offers many potential x-wing rectangles from the very beginning. But i wouldn't have expected such a high percentage (compared to subsets like pairs and triples).
[Edit:] Ah, i saw now, that hidden pairs and naked triples in ER are ranked after x-wings, which is rather unusual (personally in most cases i find hidden pairs earlier and most solvers rank all subsets before x-wing).

by **JPF** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:20 am

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . 1 | . 2 . | 3 . . . 3 4 | . 5 . | 6 1 . -------+-------+------- . . . | 7 . 5 | . . . . 6 3 | . . . | 7 8 . . . . | 2 . 8 | . . . -------+-------+------- . 5 8 | . 1 . | 9 3 . . . 2 | . 4 . | 1 . . . . . | . . . | . . . ER=6.2

JPF

by **TTHsieh** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:25 am

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . 1 | . 2 . | 3 . . . 4 3 | . 5 . | 2 6 . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | 2 . 6 | . . . . 6 7 | . . . | 8 1 . . . . | 8 . 9 | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . 1 5 | . 4 . | 6 3 . . . 2 | . 9 . | 7 . . . . . | . . . | . . . ER=7.7

TTHsieh

by **TTHsieh** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:38 am

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . 1 | . 2 . | 3 . . . 4 3 | . 5 . | 6 1 . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | 7 . 8 | . . . . 7 9 | . . . | 8 4 . . . . | 2 . 3 | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . 6 4 | . 3 . | 1 9 . . . 8 | . 1 . | 5 . . . . . | . . . | . . . ER=4.9

TTHsieh

by **TTHsieh** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:04 am

current posted puzzles wrote:
000000000001020300045030160000705000086000450000908000053070610004090200000000000 # 1.5, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045060170000805000037000450000903000052090710004080600000000000 # 1.7, JPF
000000000001020300045030160000705000086000450000908000052070640004090200000000000 # 2.0, JPF
000000000001020300045030160000701000078000540000904000052090630003010800000000000 # 2.3, TTHsieh
000000000004060900012030450000703000081000740000806000036050120007090600000000000 # 2.5, wintder
000000000005080700012030450000901000074000910000806000041060370009020800000000000 # 2.6, wintder
000000000001020300032040510000607000015000760000804000056090230007080100000000000 # 2.8, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045060170000408000079000580000701000062040730003010900000000000 # 3.0, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045030620000307000068000490000409000053010260002070100000000000 # 3.2, TTHsieh
000000000001020300042050610000708000016000870000905000027030460008090200000000000 # 3.4, TTHsieh
000000000001020300043050160000107000087000640000805000026030950009010700000000000 # 3.6, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045060170000801000083000540000904000032090860006010700000000000 # 4.0, JPF
000000000001020300024010560000708000075000490000503000046080920002030600000000000 # 4.2, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045060710000803000087000450000409000014090670006030100000000000 # 4.4, TTHsieh
000000000001090500042030710000901000076000480000706000023010640004050200000000000 # 4.5, m_b_metcalf
000000000003060700012030450000408000058000970000605000067020310009040800000000000 # 4.6, wintder
000000000001020300045060780000302000097000150000105000064030890009080400000000000 # 4.7, JPF
000000000001020300043050610000708000079000840000203000064030190008010500000000000 # 4.9, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045060780000302000098000150000105000074030890009040600000000000 # 5.0, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045060780000401000087000510000509000062040830003090600000000000 # 5.6, JPF
000000000001020300045030670000105000067000450000804000023010790009080200000000000 # 5.7, JPF
000000000001020300034050610000705000063000780000208000058010930002040100000000000 # 6.2, JPF
000000000001020300034010560000204000076000840000705000082090730003050600000000000 # 6.5, JPF
000000000001090500065030710000901000076000480000706000023010640004050200000000000 # 6.6, m_b_metcalf
000000000001020300034050670000508000083000790000902000059040130007060400000000000 # 6.7, TTHsieh
000000000001020300045030160000205000076000850000704000053040610008010900000000000 # 6.8, JPF
000000000005010900012030450000602000047000680000308000081090740006020300000000000 # 6.9, wintder
000000000001020300045060720000801000079000410000307000062080940004030200000000000 # 7.0, JPF
000000000007040900012030450000902000095000680000708000056070340004020500000000000 # 7.1, wintder
000000000001090500085020730000901000076000480000706000023010640004050200000000000 # 7.2, m_b_metcalf
000000000006010900012030450000906000074000890000107000083020170009060200000000000 # 7.3, wintder
000000000001020300045030670000405000078000950000902000082040730003010800000000000 # 7.4, JPF
000000000003060100012030450000209000084000590000406000069070830007020600000000000 # 7.5, wintder
000000000001020300045060710000208000097000450000905000076080240004030600000000000 # 7.6, TTHsieh
000000000001020300043050260000206000067000810000809000015040630002090700000000000 # 7.7, TTHsieh
000000000004060800012030450000307000075000120000206000086090570001040600000000000 # 7.8, wintder
000000000001020300045060780000208000079000450000509000052080140004030900000000000 # 8.2, JPF
000000000001020300045060170000708000098000450000502000054070960006030200000000000 # 8.3, TTHsieh
000000000001090500035020710000901000076000480000706000023010640004050200000000000 # 8.4, m_b_metcalf
000000000001020300043050160000107000087000690000605000096030240002010700000000000 # 8.5, JPF
000000000009010300012030450000906000065000720000708000024080130001090200000000000 # 8.9, wintder
000000000001020300045060710000508000097000840000406000073050190008030500000000000 # 9.0, TTHsieh

Code: Select all: current posted ratings : 42 1.5 - 1.7 - 2.0 - 2.3 - 2.5 - 2.6 - 2.8 - 3.0 - 3.2 - 3.4 - 3.6 - 4.0 - 4.2 - 4.4 - 4.5 - 4.6 - 4.7 - 4.9 - 5.0 - 5.6 - 5.7 - 6.2 - 6.5 - 6.6 - 6.7 - 6.8 - 6.9 - 7.0 - 7.1 - 7.2 - 7.3 - 7.4 - 7.5 - 7.6 - 7.7 - 7.8 - 8.2 - 8.3 - 8.4 - 8.5 - 8.9 - 9.0 current scores : Submitter Puzzles Points Bonus Total ----------- ------- ------ --------- ----- m_b_metcalf 4 28 28 wintder 9 182 182 JPF 13 335 335 TTHsieh 16 360 -20+20+30 390 ----------- ------- ------ --------- -----

TTHsieh

by **JPF** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:40 pm

Thanks TTHsieh for the neat work you are doing in this thread.
Congratulations for winning (again) this pattern game.

I'm a bit sceptical on the stats you gave.

you wrote:
wrote: wrote:000000000001010100011010110000101000011000110000101000011010110001010100000000000

ER=3.2 > 55%, so this pattern can be called X-Wings Pattern.

As it has been mentionned here, it's not easy to generate unbiased grids and therefore unbiased puzzles.
It's even worse for minimal puzzles (see here)

For this pattern I developped a "totally" biased generation of minimal puzzles.
Now, I have 10000 non isomorphic minimal puzzles.
My main ratings are :

Code: Select all: ER = 7.1 : 24.4 % ER = 3.2 : 22.7 % ER = 2.3 : 13.4 % ER = 7.2 : 9.2 %

But it's true that my puzzles generation was mainly oriented towards the highest possible ERs.

btw, I only got 5 puzzles with ER=9.0 and 13 with ER=8.9

wintder wrote:>>The game ends if no puzzle has been posted for 3 days.<<
36 hours sounds better to me. I like playing.

>>The winner is the player with the highest number of points and gets the right to be the new dealer.
He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new puzzle within 1 week.<<

26 hours. I'd rather play a new game than wait. I'd think the winner would agree?

Hmm... only 24 hours in a day ...

OK to modify this sentence :
He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new puzzle within 1 day.

I will add a new rule just for purpose of diversity :
a player cannot be a dealer for more than 5 consecutive games

(this rules will only apply after the next game)

JPF

by **TTHsieh** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:17 am

My main ratings:

Code: Select all: 3.2 55.7% 7.1 10.9% 2.3 8.0% 3.0 5.8% 4.4 5.5% 7.2 4.2%

It is true, that "mainly oriented towards" makes such different results.
I got 6 puzzles with 8.9 and only one puzzle with 9.0

Rule wrote:Each player can post 1 puzzle maximum for 1 day, except if somebody posts an other satisfactory puzzle.

JPF wrote:He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new puzzle within 1 day.

conflict. Maybe 36 hours will be better.

JPF wrote:a player cannot be a dealer for more than 5 consecutive games

For diversity, I agree.
But who will be the next dealer, if someone had won 5 consecutive games.

TTHsieh

by **JPF** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:15 am

TTHsieh wrote:
Rule wrote:Each player can post 1 puzzle maximum for 1 day, except if somebody posts an other satisfactory puzzle.

JPF wrote:He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new puzzle within 1 day.

conflict.

There is no conflict :

rule wrote:The game ends if no (new) puzzle has been posted for 3 days.
rule wrote: The winner is the player with the highest number of points and gets the right to be the new dealer.
He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new pattern within 1 day.

TTHsieh wrote:But who will be the next dealer, if someone had won 5 consecutive games.
somebody else

TTHsieh wrote:I got 6 puzzles with 8.9 and only one puzzle with 9.0

Here are some :
Program wrote:000000000001020300042050670000608000018000740000109000075090230003060800000000000 # 9.0
000000000001020300045060170000508000093000840000406000012050790008070500000000000 # 9.0
000000000001020300045060170000508000093000840000406000012070590008050700000000000 # 9.0
000000000001020300045060170000508000097000840000406000013050790008030500000000000 # 9.0
000000000001020300045060710000508000097000840000406000073050190008030500000000000 # 9.0
000000000001020300023040560000107000076000850000809000065090230002010400000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300023040560000107000076000850000809000065090430004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300024030560000107000076000840000809000045090230002010400000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300032040560000107000073000850000809000056090430004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300032040560000107000073000850000809000065090430004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300032040560000107000075000830000809000063090450004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300032040560000107000076000830000809000063090450004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300032040560000107000076000850000809000065090430004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300042030560000107000074000850000809000065090430003010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300042030560000107000076000840000809000025090430004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300042030560000107000076000850000809000065090430004010200000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300043050620000107000074000860000809000062090530005010400000000000 # 8.9
000000000001020300045060170000508000087000430000409000073090210002050600000000000 # 8.9

JPF

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Patterns Game 1.0