May 28, 2020

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May 28, 2020

Postby tarek » Thu May 28, 2020 7:05 am

Also a one trick pony :D

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . . | . 4 . | . . . |
| . . 7 | . . . | 2 . . |
| . 1 . | . . . | . 8 7 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . . 7 | 1 4 . |
| 2 . . | . . . | 6 . 9 |
| . . . | 9 . . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 8 . | 3 5 . | . . 1 |
| . . 9 | 1 . . | . . 4 |
| . . 1 | . 7 . | 9 6 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
3...4......7...2...1.....87.....714.2.....6.9...9......8.35...1..91....4..1.7.96.

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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby Leren » Thu May 28, 2020 7:35 am

Code: Select all
*-------------------------------------*
| 3 9    2   | 7   4    8   | 5 1  6  |
| 8 4    7   | 56  16   15  | 2 9  3  |
| 6 1    5   | 2   9    3   | 4 8  7  |
|------------+--------------+---------|
| 9 56   38  | 568 236  7   | 1 4  25 |
| 2 57   348 |d8-5 13   145 | 6 37 9  |
| 1 567 b34  | 9   236 a45  | 8 37 25 |
|------------+--------------+---------|
| 4 8    6   | 3   5    9   | 7 2  1  |
| 7 2    9   | 1   8    6   | 3 5  4  |
| 5 3    1   | 4   7    2   | 9 6  8  |
*-------------------------------------*

(5=4) r6c6 - r6c3 = (4-8) r5c3 = (8) r5c4 => - 5 r8c4; stte

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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby Cenoman » Thu May 28, 2020 1:06 pm

Code: Select all
 +-------------------+--------------------+-----------------+
 |  3    9     2     |  7     4     8     |  5    1    6    |
 |  8    4     7     |  56   b16   a1-5   |  2    9    3    |
 |  6    1     5     |  2     9     3     |  4    8    7    |
 +-------------------+--------------------+-----------------+
 |  9    56*   38    |  568   236*  7     |  1    4    25*  |
 |  2    57    348   |  58    13    145   |  6    37   9    |
 |  1   c567* d34    |  9     236* d45    |  8   d37   25*  |
 +-------------------+--------------------+-----------------+
 |  4    8     6     |  3     5     9     |  7    2    1    |
 |  7    2     9     |  1     8     6     |  3    5    4    |
 |  5    3     1     |  4     7     2     |  9    6    8    |
 +-------------------+--------------------+-----------------+

DP(256)r46c259 using mixed external-internal
(1)r2c6 = (1-6)r2c5 == (7)r6c2 - (7=345)r6c368 => -5 r2c6; ste
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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby rjamil » Thu May 28, 2020 7:08 pm

Code: Select all
 +--------------+-----------------+-----------+
 | 3  9     2   | 7      4    8   | 5  1   6  |
 | 8  4     7   | 56     16   15  | 2  9   3  |
 | 6  1     5   | 2      9    3   | 4  8   7  |
 +--------------+-----------------+-----------+
 | 9  (56)  38  | (568)  236  7   | 1  4   25 |
 | 2  (5)7  348 | (58)   13   145 | 6  37  9  |
 | 1  567   34  | 9      236  4-5 | 8  37  25 |
 +--------------+-----------------+-----------+
 | 4  8     6   | 3      5    9   | 7  2   1  |
 | 7  2     9   | 1      8    6   | 3  5   4  |
 | 5  3     1   | 4      7    2   | 9  6   8  |
 +--------------+-----------------+-----------+

XYZ-Wing Hybrid: 568 @ r4c24 r5c4 Row wise Hybrid 5 @ r5c2 => -5 @ r6c6; stte

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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby SpAce » Thu May 28, 2020 8:40 pm

Hi rjamil,

rjamil wrote:XYZ-Wing Hybrid: 568 @ r4c24 r5c4 Row wise Hybrid 5 @ r5c2 => -5 @ r6c6; stte

I don't understand your move. How is it supposed to work? I don't see how those four cells can eliminate anything by themselves. The closest to that I get is this, but it has two extra cells:

original: Show
Code: Select all
.--------------.-------------------.-----------.
| 3   9    2   |   7     4     8   | 5  1   6  |
| 8   4    7   |   56    16    15  | 2  9   3  |
| 6   1    5   |   2     9     3   | 4  8   7  |
:--------------+-------------------+-----------:
| 9  b56   38  |  a58'6  236   7   | 1  4   25 |
| 2  d57   348 | ae58    13   e145 | 6  37  9  |
| 1  c567  34  |   9     236   4-5 | 8  37  25 |
:--------------+-------------------+-----------:
| 4   8    6   |   3     5     9   | 7  2   1  |
| 7   2    9   |   1     8     6   | 3  5   4  |
| 5   3    1   |   4     7     2   | 9  6   8  |
'--------------'-------------------'-----------'

(58=6)r54c4 - r4c2 = (6-7)r6c2 = (7-5)r5c2 = (5)r5c46 => -5 r6c6; stte

...or compressed:

(58=6)r54c4 - (67,5)r465c2 = (5)r5c46 => -5 r6c6; stte

Edit. eleven's simpler interpretation is of course much better. I don't know how I could be so blind that I missed it. Still, even that has one extra cell that you didn't list:

Code: Select all
.--------------.-------------------.-----------.
| 3   9    2   |   7     4     8   | 5  1   6  |
| 8   4    7   |   56    16    15  | 2  9   3  |
| 6   1    5   |   2     9     3   | 4  8   7  |
:--------------+-------------------+-----------:
| 9  b56   38  |  a58'6  236   7   | 1  4   25 |
| 2  c57   348 | ad58    13   d145 | 6  37  9  |
| 1   567  34  |   9     236   4-5 | 8  37  25 |
:--------------+-------------------+-----------:
| 4   8    6   |   3     5     9   | 7  2   1  |
| 7   2    9   |   1     8     6   | 3  5   4  |
| 5   3    1   |   4     7     2   | 9  6   8  |
'--------------'-------------------'-----------'

(58=6)r54c4 - (6=5)r4c2 - r5c2 = (5)r5c46 => -5 r6c6; stte
Last edited by SpAce on Thu May 28, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby SteveG48 » Thu May 28, 2020 9:49 pm

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------*
 | 3    9    2    | 7    4    8    | 5    1    6    |
 | 8    4    7    | 56   16   15   | 2    9    3    |
 | 6    1    5    | 2    9    3    | 4    8    7    |
 *----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 9    56  b38   |a56-8 236  7    | 1    4    25   |
 | 2    57   348  |a58   13   145  | 6    37   9    |
 | 1    567 b34   | 9    236 a45   | 8    37   25   |
 *----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 4    8    6    | 3    5    9    | 7    2    1    |
 | 7    2    9    | 1    8    6    | 3    5    4    |
 | 5    3    1    | 4    7    2    | 9    6    8    |
 *--------------------------------------------------*


(6=584)b5p149 - (4=38)r46c3 => -8 r4c4 ; stte
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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby eleven » Thu May 28, 2020 10:21 pm

rjamil wrote:XYZ-Wing Hybrid: 568 @ r4c24 r5c4 Row wise Hybrid 5 @ r5c2 => -5 @ r6c6; stte

Guess you mean:
5r5c2 => 5r4c4
-5r5c2 => 5r5c46
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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby rjamil » Thu May 28, 2020 10:30 pm

Hi all,

My move is based on this post.

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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby eleven » Thu May 28, 2020 11:05 pm

rjamil wrote:My move is based on this post.

That explains all ;)
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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby SpAce » Thu May 28, 2020 11:17 pm

rjamil wrote:My move is based on this post.

Well, you can't really expect us to go through all those diagrams to understand your move. Since the pattern name probably means very little to most people (including myself, even though I must have known it at some point since I've participated in the thread), the presentation should have at least some hints to how it works. I don't expect you to write it in chain form (see my post for an example), but at the very least it should list all the involved cells (r5c6 is missing). That was the biggest problem for me, so fixing it would help tremendously.

In any case, if eleven's logic is what it's supposed depict (and it seems the most likely option), I really like that move! Good job!

Btw, I think it can also be seen as an overlapping grouped ALS-H-Wing (formerly known as a grouped H4-Wing). Would all H4-Wings be found as XYZ-Wing-Hybrids in your program, or do they have some difference? I think we've discussed that before, but I can't remember where and what the conclusion was.)
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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby rjamil » Fri May 29, 2020 1:19 am

Hi SpAce,

BTW, a hint is enough for a wise man, but, if you insist then just read blue's post only.

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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby pjb » Fri May 29, 2020 2:21 am

Code: Select all
 3       9       2      | 7      4      8      | 5      1      6     
 8       4       7      | 56     16     15     | 2      9      3     
 6       1       5      | 2      9      3      | 4      8      7     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 9       56     a38     | 56-8   236    7      | 1      4      25     
 2       57      34-8   |d58     13     145    | 6      37     9     
 1       567    b34     | 9      236   c45     | 8      37     25     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 4       8       6      | 3      5      9      | 7      2      1     
 7       2       9      | 1      8      6      | 3      5      4     
 5       3       1      | 4      7      2      | 9      6      8     

(8=3)r4c3 - (3=4)r6c3 - (4=5)r6c6 - (5=8)r5c4 => -8 r4c4, r5c3; stte

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Re: May 28, 2020

Postby SpAce » Fri May 29, 2020 3:53 am

Hi rjamil,

Here are some BUG examples like I promised. First a two-stepper with a reduced BUG+3 and then a one-stepper using the full BUG+6 directly.

BUG+6 grid: Show
Code: Select all
.---------------.------------------.-----------.
| 3  9     2    | 7     4     8    | 5  1   6  |
| 8  4     7    | 56    16    15   | 2  9   3  |
| 6  1     5    | 2     9     3    | 4  8   7  |
:---------------+------------------+-----------:
| 9  56    38   | 68+5  23+6  7    | 1  4   25 |
| 2  57    48+3 | 58    13    14+5 | 6  37  9  |
| 1  67+5  34   | 9     26+3  45   | 8  37  25 |
:---------------+------------------+-----------:
| 4  8     6    | 3     5     9    | 7  2   1  |
| 7  2     9    | 1     8     6    | 3  5   4  |
| 5  3     1    | 4     7     2    | 9  6   8  |
'---------------'------------------'-----------'

So, we have six guardians in six cells to begin with. Finding a common elimination for them is not trivial in this case, but fortunately we can get rid of three of the guardians with a simple loop:

Code: Select all
.----------------.------------------.------------.
| 3  9      2    | 7     4      8   | 5  1    6  |
| 8  4      7    | 56    16     15  | 2  9    3  |
| 6  1      5    | 2     9      3   | 4  8    7  |
:----------------+------------------+------------:
| 9  56    a38   | 568  b23-6   7   | 1  4   c25 |
| 2  57     48-3 | 58    13     145 | 6  37   9  |
| 1  67-5  f34   | 9     236   e45  | 8  37  d25 |
:----------------+------------------+------------:
| 4  8      6    | 3     5      9   | 7  2    1  |
| 7  2      9    | 1     8      6   | 3  5    4  |
| 5  3      1    | 4     7      2   | 9  6    8  |
'----------------'------------------'------------'

Step 1:

(3)r4c3 = (3-2)r4c5 = r4c9 - (2=5)r6c9 - (5=4)r6c6 - (4=3)r6c3 - loop => -3 r5c3, -5 r6c2, -6 r4c5

compressed: Show
(3)r4c3 = (32)r4c59 - (2=54'3)r6c963 - loop => -3 r5c3, -5 r6c2, -6 r4c5

5x5 SPM: Show
Code: Select all
 3r4c3  3r4c5
        2r4c5 2r4c9
              2r6c9 5r6c9
                    5r6c6 4r6c6
 3r6c3                    4r6c3
-------------------------------
-3r5c4 -6r4c5      -5r6c2

5x5 (Rank 0): {23R4 6N369 \ 45r6 2c9 3c3 4n5} => -3 r5c3, -5 r6c2, -6 r4c5

What's left is a much simpler BUG+3:

Code: Select all
.------------.------------------------.-----------.
| 3  9    2  |  7       4      8      | 5  1   6  |
| 8  4    7  |  56      16     15     | 2  9   3  |
| 6  1    5  |  2       9      3      | 4  8   7  |
:------------+------------------------+-----------:
| 9  56   38 | a68[+5]  23     7      | 1  4   25 |
| 2  57   48 |  8-5     13    b14[+5] | 6  37  9  |
| 1  67  c34 |  9      c26+3  c4(5)   | 8  37  25 |
:------------+------------------------+-----------:
| 4  8    6  |  3       5      9      | 7  2   1  |
| 7  2    9  |  1       8      6      | 3  5   4  |
| 5  3    1  |  4       7      2      | 9  6   8  |
'------------'------------------------'-----------'

Step 2:

Code: Select all
a: (5)r4c4
   ||
b: (5)r5c6
   ||
c: (3)r6c5 - (3=4)r6c3 - (4=5)r6c6

=> -5 r5c4; stte

In other words, 2/3 guardians (5r4c4 and 5r5c6) see the elimination directly. The third 3r6c5 needs a short chain (which is also a locked set, actually) to imply 5r6c6 which also sees the elimination. Thus all 3/3 have proved that they could eliminate it, so it can be safely eliminated.

As an AIC:

(5)b5p16 =BUG= (3)r6c5 - (3=4)r6c3 - (4=5)r6c6 => -5 r5c4; stte

compressed: Show
(5)b5p16 == (345)r6c536 => -5 r5c4; stte

Of course we can also do it in one step with the BUG+6 directly:

Code: Select all
.-------------------.--------------------------.-------------.
| 3     9      2    |  7         4      8      | 5    1   6  |
| 8     4      7    |  56        16     15     | 2    9   3  |
| 6     1      5    |  2         9      3      | 4    8   7  |
:-------------------+--------------------------+-------------:
| 9     56     38   | a68(+5)  cd23+6   7      | 1    4   25 |
| 2  cd(5)7   b48+3 |  8-5     cd13    a14(+5) | 6  cd37  9  |
| 1    c67+5  b34   |  9      bcd26+3  b4(5)   | 8    37  25 |
:-------------------+--------------------------+-------------:
| 4     8      6    | 3          5      9      | 7    2   1  |
| 7     2      9    | 1          8      6      | 3    5   4  |
| 5     3      1    | 4          7      2      | 9    6   8  |
'-------------------'--------------------------'-------------'

Code: Select all
a: (5)b5p16
   ||
b: (3)r5c3,r6c5 - (3=4)r6c3 - (4=5)r6c6
   ||
c: (5-6)r6c2 = (62-3)r64c5 = r5c5 - (3=7)r5c8 - (7=5)r5c2
   ||
d: (62-3)r46c5 = r5c5 - (3=7)r5c8 - (7=5)r5c2

=> -5 r5c4; stte

Again, the same two guardians (5r4c4 and 5r5c6) see the elimination directly, but now they're only 2/6, so we need chains for the other four.

As a (compressed) AIC:

(5)b5p16 == [(54,3)r6c63,r5c3,r6c5 == (5-6)r6c2 = (62,3)r645c5 - (3=75)r5c82] => -5 r5c4; stte

9x9 BTM: Show
Code: Select all
 5r5c2  7r5c2
        7r5c8 3r5c8
              3r5c5 3r4c5 3r6c5 
                    2r4c5 2r6c5
 5r6c6                          4r6c6
                                4r6c3 3r6c3
                                4r6c3       3r6c3
                          6r6c5                   6r6c2
 5b5p16             6r4c5             3r5c3 3r6c5 5r6c2
-------------------------------------------------------
-5r5c4
-SpAce-: Show
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   

"If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi."
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