## Kenken

For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants
999_Springs wrote:Anyone else taking up the speed challenge?

Instead of the speed challenge, why don't you take up the "no-op challenge" (solving the puzzles without using the operators)?

#130 & #134 are both diabolical to solve and #132 has 2 solutions.
udosuk

Posts: 2698
Joined: 17 July 2005

Never has a Times KenKen caused me as much trouble as #169. It is extremely infuriating.

This is the original puzzle:
Code: Select all
`11+ 11+ 11+ 10+ 10+ 10+10+ 12+ 30x 30x 30x 12+10+ 12+ 2/  2/  9+  12+10+ 12+ 5-  5-  9+  12+4   1-  1-  12+ 12+ 12+            -----------15x 15x 15x 12+ 12+ 12+`

My current state:
Code: Select all
`1256  123456 123456 123456 123456 1261236  12346  12356  12356  12356  3412356 123456 12346  12346  456    345235   2345   16     16     345    3454     23     23     156    156    1615    135    135    246    246    26`
Last edited by l\$ on Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
999_Springs

Posts: 585
Joined: 27 January 2007
Location: In the toilet, flushing down springs, one by one.

999_Springs Check out the X-wing in 3 r56c23 and the innies of Column 1 (ie the sum of r16c1). This might help you advance.
Glyn

Posts: 357
Joined: 26 April 2007

999_Springs,

Glyn is probably trying to be subtle to help you there. But if you still need more help:

Triple click to see the big hint I wrote:Try to work out the sum of 4 cells in the right half of the grid. This cracks the whole thing.

Before Maurice commented that all Times Kenken puzzle can be solved easily without operators. Now most of them are almost impossible to solve without operators and some of them (like this one) is even tricky to solve with operators. Personally I rank this one to be at least as difficult as the legendary #16 (with operators).
udosuk

Posts: 2698
Joined: 17 July 2005

Tripple click to read the WT that my soft JSudoku wrote:5- in r4c34 = {16} (Naked Pair in r4)
12+ in r5c456 = {156} (Naked Triplet in r5)
9+ in r34c5 -> r3c5 = {456}
Innies of c1 -> r16c1 = 7
Split cage 7/2 in r16c1 -> r6c1 = {15}, r1c1 = {26}
X-Wing on 3 in r56 and c23 -> not elsewhere in c23
2÷ in r3c34 -> r3c4 = {1234}
11+ in r1c123 -> r1c3 = {145}, r1c2 = {145}
12+ in r234c2 -> r3c2 = {1246}, r2c2 = {1246}
All {3} of r1 are locked in 10+ in r1c456 -> 10+ in r1c456 = {3..}
10+ in r1c456 -> r1c6 = {12356}, r1c5 = {12356}, r1c4 = {12356}
5 of 30× in r2c345 locked in r2c345. Since 30× in r2c345 = {5..} -> not elsewhere in r2
Innies of c6 -> r156c6 = 9
Split cage 9/3 in r156c6 -> r6c6 = {26}, r5c6 = {16}, r1c6 = {126}
Split cage 9/3 in r156c6 = {126} (Naked Triplet in c6)
10+ in r1c456 -> r1c5 = {1356}, r1c4 = {1356}
Innies of c123 -> r234c3 = 12
Split cage 12/3 in r234c3 -> r3c3 = {146}, r2c3 = {25}
2÷ in r3c34 -> r3c4 = {23}
r6c4 = 4 (hidden single in c4)
All {4} of c5 are locked in 9+ in r34c5 -> 9+ in r34c5 = {4..}
9+ in r34c5 -> r4c5 = {45}, r3c5 = {45}
9+ in r34c5 = {45} (Naked Pair in c5)
Singles from here

And here is a code you may paste in JSudoku
Code: Select all
`SquareWisdomV1=11+0+0=10+3+3=10=12=30*8*8=12+6+7=2/14=9+11+6+7=5-20+16+11=4=1-25=12+27+27=15*30*30=12+33+33`

Note: the format is based on the SumoCue format, but uses the 4 operators. Of course the numbers may possibly repeat and there are no blocks.
Jean-Christophe

Posts: 149
Joined: 22 January 2006

Thanks for all the help on #169. I have solved the puzzle.

But then the Times published Kenken #176. Argh. I have had to use differential equations to get this far. (Well, not really, but some rather complicated stuff.)

Original puzzle:
Code: Select all
`4/ 30x 6/ 6/  7+  7+4/ 30x 2- 18+ 18+ 18+2/ 30x 2- 17+ 17+ 18+2/ 30x 5/ 17+ 17+ 1-3- 6   5/ 1-  6x  1-3- 1-  1-|1-  6x  6x`

My current state:
Code: Select all
`4  3  6  1   25   251  25 24 456 2345 235636 1  24 456 2345 35636 25 1  456 2345 352  6  5  3   1    45  4  3  2   6    1`

(I also know that r234c5r23c6 must be {23456}.)

These Difficult Kenkens seem to be getting harder. I am getting somewhat further away from my best times which I have previously posted.
999_Springs

Posts: 585
Joined: 27 January 2007
Location: In the toilet, flushing down springs, one by one.

#176 is not quite as bad as #169, but I agree the standard is going up.

Try totting up the potential digits in row 2 and examine the outtie r3c6.

triple click to see more detail on the hint that I wrote:The possibilities for row columns 2 and 3 are [24],[52],[54]. So the potential sum of Row 2+r3c6=25,26,28.
28 can't be right as r3c6<>7. Therefore 2 is locked in r2c23 not elsewhere in row 2 and r3c6 must equal 4 or 5.
We already have r5c6=4 so r3c6=5 => r2c23=[52] and you also get the rest of column 6 as singles. That's pretty much it.
Glyn

Posts: 357
Joined: 26 April 2007

I have not done kenkens for a while, but I was travelling yesterday so tried 175 and 176 without operators (ignoring singles and on paper) and was stuck with both of them. I thought I'd completely lost it - so I'm glad to hear they are tougher.

The adjacent killer 903 was an excellent workout as a KiMo. Talking of which have you tried Mike-Japan's "Cage Plus" on DJ's site - another limited information killer? I've just posted a repeat killer version of it.
HATMAN

Posts: 287
Joined: 25 February 2006
Location: Saudi Arabia

HATMAN I am in awe, attempting all of these without operators. I usually do the Times on paper, or rather in the paper. Have you checked it for uniqueness without operators yet using JSudoku? I'll try to plug it in to see if we are chasing an unreachable goal.

Edit That is I will check it if I can figure out how to enter the cages. Help JC.
Glyn

Posts: 357
Joined: 26 April 2007

Glyn

I try them that way and if and when I fail I do it the easy way.

Maurice
HATMAN

Posts: 287
Joined: 25 February 2006
Location: Saudi Arabia

Glyn wrote:HATMAN I am in awe, attempting all of these without operators. I usually do the Times on paper, or rather in the paper. Have you checked it for uniqueness without operators yet using JSudoku? I'll try to plug it in to see if we are chasing an unreachable goal.

Edit That is I will check it if I can figure out how to enter the cages. Help JC.

JSudoku only supports cages without operator and without value, which simply specify numbers cannot be repeated in the cage. It does not support noop versions with a cage value. It's so special I doubt I'll ever add support for it.
Jean-Christophe

Posts: 149
Joined: 22 January 2006

Thanks JC for the info on JSudoku.

HATMAN I have started ignoring operators when doing these at least for a first try, the last few days have been ok on all the puzzles. I had to revert on No 187 not enough cages with an immediate operator for me to take a stab.
Glyn

Posts: 357
Joined: 26 April 2007

Glynn

I'm in Nigeria so missing the Times, as well as that my internet connection is in the lower percentiles, so I'm limiting myself to those with code attached. Have you tried Mike-Japan's Cage Plus over on DJApe's? It is an intriguing variant. I've posted a straightforward Repeat version and am working on a much harder plain one (i.e. I've got the puzzle and am trying to see if it is solvable). I'll try a KenKen version later.

Maurice
HATMAN

Posts: 287
Joined: 25 February 2006
Location: Saudi Arabia

Folks this is to let you know that I've posted my first CanCan (SquareWisdom) puzzle on my website.

Since I like to scale things up, it's not your ordinary CanCan, it's an Overlapping (Gattai-2) CanCan! So, just like TwoDoku, this puzzle contains 2 sub-puzzles which are solved as usual.

Also, as of Monday, October 6, 2008 you will be able to find DAILY CanCan (Square Wisdom) puzzles on my website

Enjoy!

Djape
www.djape.net
djape

Posts: 34
Joined: 27 September 2005

I've posted a few KenKen variants puzzles this week but today's puzzle is extra-special.

It's a KenKen Samurai (5 in 1)! Have you seen it elsewhere before?
djape

Posts: 34
Joined: 27 September 2005

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