Kenken

For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants

Postby udosuk » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:13 am

999_Springs wrote:Anyone else taking up the speed challenge?

Instead of the speed challenge, why don't you take up the "no-op challenge" (solving the puzzles without using the operators)?

#130 & #134 are both diabolical to solve and #132 has 2 solutions.:idea:
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Postby 999_Springs » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:05 pm

Never has a Times KenKen caused me as much trouble as #169. It is extremely infuriating.

This is the original puzzle:
Code: Select all
11+ 11+ 11+ 10+ 10+ 10+
10+ 12+ 30x 30x 30x 12+
10+ 12+ 2/  2/  9+  12+
10+ 12+ 5-  5-  9+  12+
4   1-  1-  12+ 12+ 12+
            -----------
15x 15x 15x 12+ 12+ 12+

My current state:
Code: Select all
1256  123456 123456 123456 123456 126
1236  12346  12356  12356  12356  34
12356 123456 12346  12346  456    345
235   2345   16     16     345    345
4     23     23     156    156    16
15    135    135    246    246    26
Last edited by l$ on Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Once upon a time I was a teenager who was active on here 2007-2011
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Postby Glyn » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:10 pm

999_Springs Check out the X-wing in 3 r56c23 and the innies of Column 1 (ie the sum of r16c1). This might help you advance.
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Postby udosuk » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:08 am

999_Springs,

Glyn is probably trying to be subtle to help you there. But if you still need more help:

Triple click to see the big hint I wrote:Try to work out the sum of 4 cells in the right half of the grid. This cracks the whole thing.


Before Maurice commented that all Times Kenken puzzle can be solved easily without operators. Now most of them are almost impossible to solve without operators and some of them (like this one) is even tricky to solve with operators. Personally I rank this one to be at least as difficult as the legendary #16 (with operators).
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Postby Jean-Christophe » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:31 pm

Tripple click to read the WT that my soft JSudoku wrote:5- in r4c34 = {16} (Naked Pair in r4)
12+ in r5c456 = {156} (Naked Triplet in r5)
9+ in r34c5 -> r3c5 = {456}
Innies of c1 -> r16c1 = 7
Split cage 7/2 in r16c1 -> r6c1 = {15}, r1c1 = {26}
X-Wing on 3 in r56 and c23 -> not elsewhere in c23
2÷ in r3c34 -> r3c4 = {1234}
11+ in r1c123 -> r1c3 = {145}, r1c2 = {145}
12+ in r234c2 -> r3c2 = {1246}, r2c2 = {1246}
All {3} of r1 are locked in 10+ in r1c456 -> 10+ in r1c456 = {3..}
10+ in r1c456 -> r1c6 = {12356}, r1c5 = {12356}, r1c4 = {12356}
5 of 30× in r2c345 locked in r2c345. Since 30× in r2c345 = {5..} -> not elsewhere in r2
Innies of c6 -> r156c6 = 9
Split cage 9/3 in r156c6 -> r6c6 = {26}, r5c6 = {16}, r1c6 = {126}
Split cage 9/3 in r156c6 = {126} (Naked Triplet in c6)
10+ in r1c456 -> r1c5 = {1356}, r1c4 = {1356}
Innies of c123 -> r234c3 = 12
Split cage 12/3 in r234c3 -> r3c3 = {146}, r2c3 = {25}
2÷ in r3c34 -> r3c4 = {23}
r6c4 = 4 (hidden single in c4)
All {4} of c5 are locked in 9+ in r34c5 -> 9+ in r34c5 = {4..}
9+ in r34c5 -> r4c5 = {45}, r3c5 = {45}
9+ in r34c5 = {45} (Naked Pair in c5)
Singles from here


And here is a code you may paste in JSudoku
Code: Select all
SquareWisdomV1=11+0+0=10+3+3=10=12=30*8*8=12+6+7=2/14=9+11+6+7=5-20+16+11=4=1-25=12+27+27=15*30*30=12+33+33

Note: the format is based on the SumoCue format, but uses the 4 operators. Of course the numbers may possibly repeat and there are no blocks.
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Postby 999_Springs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:37 pm

Thanks for all the help on #169. I have solved the puzzle.

But then the Times published Kenken #176. Argh. I have had to use differential equations to get this far. (Well, not really, but some rather complicated stuff.)

Original puzzle:
Code: Select all
4/ 30x 6/ 6/  7+  7+
4/ 30x 2- 18+ 18+ 18+
2/ 30x 2- 17+ 17+ 18+
2/ 30x 5/ 17+ 17+ 1-
3- 6   5/ 1-  6x  1-
3- 1-  1-|1-  6x  6x


My current state:
Code: Select all
4  3  6  1   25   25
1  25 24 456 2345 2356
36 1  24 456 2345 356
36 25 1  456 2345 35
2  6  5  3   1    4
5  4  3  2   6    1

(I also know that r234c5r23c6 must be {23456}.)

These Difficult Kenkens seem to be getting harder. I am getting somewhat further away from my best times which I have previously posted.
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Postby Glyn » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:56 pm

#176 is not quite as bad as #169, but I agree the standard is going up.

Try totting up the potential digits in row 2 and examine the outtie r3c6.

triple click to see more detail on the hint that I wrote:The possibilities for row columns 2 and 3 are [24],[52],[54]. So the potential sum of Row 2+r3c6=25,26,28.
28 can't be right as r3c6<>7. Therefore 2 is locked in r2c23 not elsewhere in row 2 and r3c6 must equal 4 or 5.
We already have r5c6=4 so r3c6=5 => r2c23=[52] and you also get the rest of column 6 as singles. That's pretty much it.
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Postby HATMAN » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:48 pm

I have not done kenkens for a while, but I was travelling yesterday so tried 175 and 176 without operators (ignoring singles and on paper) and was stuck with both of them. I thought I'd completely lost it - so I'm glad to hear they are tougher.

The adjacent killer 903 was an excellent workout as a KiMo. Talking of which have you tried Mike-Japan's "Cage Plus" on DJ's site - another limited information killer? I've just posted a repeat killer version of it.
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Postby Glyn » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:54 pm

HATMAN I am in awe, attempting all of these without operators. I usually do the Times on paper, or rather in the paper. Have you checked it for uniqueness without operators yet using JSudoku? I'll try to plug it in to see if we are chasing an unreachable goal.

Edit That is I will check it if I can figure out how to enter the cages. Help JC.:?:
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Postby HATMAN » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:23 am

Glyn

I try them that way and if and when I fail I do it the easy way.

Maurice
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Postby Jean-Christophe » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:35 am

Glyn wrote:HATMAN I am in awe, attempting all of these without operators. I usually do the Times on paper, or rather in the paper. Have you checked it for uniqueness without operators yet using JSudoku? I'll try to plug it in to see if we are chasing an unreachable goal.

Edit That is I will check it if I can figure out how to enter the cages. Help JC.:?:

JSudoku only supports cages without operator and without value, which simply specify numbers cannot be repeated in the cage. It does not support noop versions with a cage value. It's so special I doubt I'll ever add support for it.
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Postby Glyn » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:27 pm

Thanks JC for the info on JSudoku.

HATMAN I have started ignoring operators when doing these at least for a first try, the last few days have been ok on all the puzzles. I had to revert on No 187 not enough cages with an immediate operator for me to take a stab.
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Postby HATMAN » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:10 pm

Glynn

I'm in Nigeria so missing the Times, as well as that my internet connection is in the lower percentiles, so I'm limiting myself to those with code attached. Have you tried Mike-Japan's Cage Plus over on DJApe's? It is an intriguing variant. I've posted a straightforward Repeat version and am working on a much harder plain one (i.e. I've got the puzzle and am trying to see if it is solvable). I'll try a KenKen version later.

Maurice
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Postby djape » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:17 pm

Folks this is to let you know that I've posted my first CanCan (SquareWisdom) puzzle on my website.

Since I like to scale things up, it's not your ordinary CanCan, it's an Overlapping (Gattai-2) CanCan! So, just like TwoDoku, this puzzle contains 2 sub-puzzles which are solved as usual.

Also, as of Monday, October 6, 2008 you will be able to find DAILY CanCan (Square Wisdom) puzzles on my website

Enjoy!

Djape
www.djape.net
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Postby djape » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:52 am

I've posted a few KenKen variants puzzles this week but today's puzzle is extra-special.

It's a KenKen Samurai (5 in 1)! Have you seen it elsewhere before?
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