The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **urhegyi** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:03 am

Moonlotus windoku: anyone capable to solve?

: Sudoku_Hyper_Speels_E_29-30-pages-2-1.png (67.39 KiB) Viewed 895 times

by **urhegyi** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:43 am

Solution by SiseSuSo:

Code: Select all: #1//B4,JSW .2.........8....2....3..5....1.4..............9....4..7...........8.....5...7.... 112222233111222333411123336441555366444555666447555966477789996777888999778888899

: SiSeSuSo_20210206_033014.png (21.69 KiB) Viewed 887 times

by **urhegyi** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:16 pm

The idea of moonlotus jigsaw combined with windoku inspired me to creating thisone:

Code: Select all: #1//B4,JSW ....8.......4.1......3.6.....1...8....5...2....7...4.....6.9......8.2.......7.... 112222233111222333411123336441555366444555666447555966477789996777888999778888899

: SiSeSuSo_20210206_162001.png (22.23 KiB) Viewed 871 times

by **urhegyi** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:35 pm

Or thisone: disable turbotfish in SiseSuSo when solving you get a solution with x-wing/yellyfish.

Code: Select all: #1//B4,JSW ...7.5.....8.9.3...........3..2.7..5.........2..5.3..8...........4.3.7.....1.4... 112222233111222333411123336441555366444555666447555966477789996777888999778888899

: SiSeSuSo_20210206_170918.png (19.24 KiB) Viewed 862 times

Code: Select all: Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku Method \ Sudoku | SER | 1 |-------|------ Not counted elims | 0 | 89 Naked Singles | 0.1 | 36 Hidden Singles | 0.2 | 99 Naked Pair [2] | 3 | 4 Naked Triple [3] | 3.6 | 11 Naked Quad [4] | 5 | 3 Locked Singles[2] | 2.8 | 20 Locked Singles[3] | 2.9 | 15 Locked Singles[4] | 3 | 12 X-Wing [2] | 3.2 | 2 Jellyfish [4] | 5.2 | 5 |-------|------ Eliminated Cand's | 296 | 296 Sum(SER * Cand's) | 257.9 | 257.9 Initial Candidates : 297 Maximum SER rating : 5.2 - Approach Labour rating : 257.9 - Experimental rating Check (conflict) : 297-297=0

A few questions :

Code: Select all: X-Wing, SwordFish, JellyFish | ColsX-Wing (4)c89r37 => (-4)r3c7 (-4)r7c7 | Cols Jellyfish (8)c1468r3578 => (-8)r7c2 (-8)r8c2 (-8)r5c5 (-8)r3c7 (-8)r7c7 | Cols Singleton (8)c2r9 => (-8)r9c7

It seems SiSeSuSo limits it's search to colums.
Perhaps there's a shorter alternative for yellyfish in rows?
BTW What is a Singleton?
When you did not disable Turbotfish SiSeSuSo does the elimination of the 7 candidates with Turbotfish instead of normal fish, because they are rated lower than 5.2 in the program.( between 4.4 and 4.6)
Anyone could answer them?

by **Hajime** » Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:10 pm

Answers inline of the quote:

urhegyi wrote:It seems SiSeSuSo limits it's search to colums.
- no, but maybe this is first to do...
Perhaps there's a shorter alternative for yellyfish in rows?
- can sure be
BTW What is a Singleton?
- during search of fish and elimination of candidates there is a single candidate found in row or column during fish-finding method:
jellyfish=4 digits locked in 4 rows/cols; swordfish in 3; X-wing in 2; singleton in 1 !
When you did not disable Turbotfish SiSeSuSo does the elimination of the 7 candidates with Turbotfish instead of normal fish, because they are rated lower than 5.2 in the program.( between 4.4 and 4.6)
- SiSeSuSo does not search per SER-rating, does a DFS (Depth First Search) and can stumble on a jellyfish (on digit p) before a x-wing (on digit q), where p<q.
Anyone could answer them?
- SiSeSuSo does a full sweep search per method in the methods list ordered from top to bottom.

You can also disable the jellyfish and Naked/hidden Quads in Help&Settings and solve the puzzle without the Yellyfish / Quads

Code: Select all: Method \ Sudoku | SER | 1 |-------|------ Not counted elims | 0 | 53 Naked Singles | 0.1 | 36 Hidden Singles | 0.2 | 37 Naked Pair [2] | 3 | 2 Naked Triple [3] | 3.6 | 14 Locked Singles[2] | 2.8 | 20 Locked Singles[3] | 2.9 | 15 Locked Singles[4] | 3 | 12 X-Wing [2] | 3.2 | 6 |-------|------ Eliminated Cand's | 195 | 195 Sum(SER * Cand's) | 222.1 | 222.1 Initial Candidates : 197 Maximum SER rating : 3.6 - Approach Labour rating : 222.1 - Experimental rating Check (conflict) : 197-197=0

by **urhegyi** » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:31 pm

I printed out the moonlotus windoku from the first post and solved it by hand. It looks easy, singles only, but doing it by hand was more challenging than I thought!
I hope to find more examples like this in the future.
I'm currently working on an algoritm to produce more moonlotus-windoku solution grids:
my first attempts:

Code: Select all: #1/W/B4,JS ...9.2.....6...9....2.5.1...............7...............5.1.4....8...3.....5.6... 112222233111222333411123336441555366444555666447555966477789996777888999778888899

solution:

Code: Select all: 184962735756183924932457186379825641861374592543691278295718463618249357427536819

Code: Select all: #1/W/B4,JS ..........5..3..1.9..4.5..6...........1...2...........8..3.7..9.1..4..2.......... 112222233111222333411123336441555366444555666447555966477789996777888999778888899

solution:

Code: Select all: 184256793756839412932415876579182634461593287328674951845327169617948325293761548

by **urhegyi** » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:58 pm

urhegyi wrote:I'm currently working on an algoritm to produce more moonlotus-windoku solution grids:
Any suggestions how to generate the solution grids?

by **urhegyi** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:58 am

This windoku variant is not only possible with the moonlotus jigsaw layout, now i found another one:

Code: Select all: #1/W/B4,JS ......7.682..9..614.........3...........2.......8.3.....2...8.3.9.....5.......2.5 711182229733182669731182269731182269731485269734485569734485569733485669744485559

Solved this yesterday by hand which was a challenge:
hardest step pointing/claiming
Law of leftovers helps to do it quicker.
Also 2 hidden pairs and an UR can help.
Estimated rating 2.8 (or 3.4 with hidden pairs)
solution:

Hidden Text: Show

update:
Thanks to the method described by Hajime I can now quick generate more solution grids like:

Code: Select all: #1/W/B4,JS 761492583146573892423981756918734625852367914394625178685149237537218469279856341 711182229733182669731182269731182269731485269734485569734485569733485669744485559

Example:

Code: Select all: #1/W/B4,JS ..1...5..1.......2.2.....5.9.8...6.5....6....3.4...1.8.8.....3.5.......9..9...3.. 711182229733182669731182269731182269731485269734485569734485569733485669744485559

Rating:

Code: Select all: Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku Method \ Sudoku | SER | 1 |-------|------ Not counted elims | 0 | 98 Naked Singles | 0.1 | 33 Hidden Singles | 0.2 | 94 Locked Singles[2] | 2.8 | 29 Locked Singles[3] | 2.9 | 3 Locked Singles[4] | 3 | 3 XY-chain [2] | 3.6 | 1 XY-chain [4] | 4.6 | 1 |-------|------ Eliminated Cand's | 262 | 262 Sum(SER * Cand's) | 129.2 | 129.2 Initial Candidates : 262 Maximum SER rating : 4.6 - Approach Labour rating : 129.2 - Experimental rating

When I see the analyze log, I think it's possible to solve with pencil and paper!
hints:

Hidden Text: Show

Or even without Generalized Intersection but with additional Turbot Fish(es):

Code: Select all: Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku Method \ Sudoku | SER | 1 |-------|------ Not counted elims | 0 | 89 Naked Singles | 0.1 | 20 Hidden Singles | 0.2 | 111 Naked Pair [2] | 3 | 2 Locked Singles[2] | 2.8 | 29 Turbot-fish [4] | 4.2 | 9 XY-chain [2] | 3.6 | 1 XY-chain [4] | 4.6 | 1 |-------|------ Eliminated Cand's | 262 | 262 Sum(SER * Cand's) | 157.4 | 157.4 Initial Candidates : 262 Maximum SER rating : 4.6 - Approach Labour rating : 157.4 - Experimental rating

hints:

Hidden Text: Show

by **Hajime** » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:18 am

urhegyi wrote:
urhegyi wrote:I'm currently working on an algoritm to produce more moonlotus-windoku solution grids:
Any suggestions how to generate the solution grids?

In SiSeSuSo

Load your own jigsaw puzzle with desired layout.
Press "Clear" to erase all givens
In tab-page Speedy: check speedy checkbox
Check method BruteForce
Label X:
Press button "All Steps"
Wait 2 seconds
Select Tab Output or press Refresh there
Select the solution lines and paste/append it in some file
Press button "All back"
Goto X

Due to a random function in Bruteforce you get different puzzles.

Here 3 puzzles in 5 seconds manually, no batch generate yet possible.

Hidden Text: Show

by **urhegyi** » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:04 am

I think this layout JSW (with windoku) can be interesting for the human solver!

Code: Select all: #1/W/B4,JS 4.7...1.5..........5.....7...8.4.5......2......3.1.9...7.....5..........8.5...7.9 111122233111222333112223333445556666444555666444455566777788899777888999778889999

It needs a lot of quads! How many are effectively needed, I hope to find out when trying to solve!
analyze:

Code: Select all: Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku Method \ Sudoku | SER | 1 |-------|------ Not counted elims | 0 | 58 Naked Singles | 0.1 | 41 Hidden Singles | 0.2 | 85 Naked Pair [2] | 3 | 18 Naked Triple [3] | 3.6 | 10 Naked Quad [4] | 5 | 8 Hidden Quad [5] | 5.4 | 3 Locked Singles[2] | 2.8 | 37 Locked Singles[3] | 2.9 | 17 Locked Singles[4] | 3 | 13 |-------|------ Eliminated Cand's | 290 | 290 Sum(SER * Cand's) | 359.2 | 359.2 Initial Candidates : 290 Maximum SER rating : 5.4 - Approach Labour rating : 359.2 - Experimental rating

When you disable quads(and wings max WXYZ) it solves with XYZ-wings which is lower in rating!

Code: Select all: Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku Method \ Sudoku | SER | 1 |-------|------ Not counted elims | 0 | 55 Naked Singles | 0.1 | 43 Hidden Singles | 0.2 | 6 Naked Single [1] | 2.5 | 1 Naked Pair [2] | 3 | 27 Naked Triple [3] | 3.6 | 6 Locked Singles[2] | 2.8 | 19 Locked Singles[3] | 2.9 | 7 Locked Singles[4] | 3 | 7 XYZ Wing [3] | 4.4 | 3 |-------|------ Eliminated Cand's | 174 | 174 Sum(SER * Cand's) | 218.3 | 218.3 Initial Candidates : 174 Maximum SER rating : 4.4 - Approach Labour rating : 218.3 - Experimental rating

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