How regular is to generate sudoku with difficulty 9+ SE?

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby gsf » Mon May 14, 2007 12:45 pm

coloin wrote:I am not sure what to make of all these puzzles

They were generated en masse, rather easily, but tediously, with readily available software !

I forgot about that post
they're running through the rating script now
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Postby gsf » Mon May 14, 2007 12:55 pm

wapati wrote:I am not very up on what you guys are doing here but I took one of the puzzles, posted by coloin, and jiggered it into this:

Code: Select all
1.......2
.9.4...5.
..6...7..
.5.3.4...
...91....
.....8.4.
..2...6..
.3...9.8.
7.......1


which SE chugs at and won't give me a rating. It is a valid puzzle, according to SE, but I get no rating.

What is so odd about this puzzle??

it requires paired propositions (2 guesses at once) to solve
but it only takes one round of paired propositions so its not the hardest in that group
look here for more comments

the real odd thing here is a 21st century program chugging multiple hours on a relatively small problem
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Postby tarek » Mon May 14, 2007 2:54 pm

are there any new updates on the list of hardest in this thread......

The problem is trying to avoid isomorphs..........

I was wondering how AW would rate the latest batch of puzzles I posted here that have a q1 rating of >95000

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Postby JPF » Mon May 14, 2007 8:05 pm

tarek wrote:are there any new updates on the list of hardest in this thread......

The problem is trying to avoid isomorphs..........
tarek

Here is the gsf's file

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Postby gsf » Tue May 15, 2007 5:12 pm

JPF wrote:
tarek wrote:are there any new updates on the list of hardest in this thread......

The problem is trying to avoid isomorphs..........
tarek

Here is the gsf's file

thanks jpf
I just double checked that data
no dups
and I believe it covers tarek's list and coloin's waiting list
if there are any missing let me know and I'll add them
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Postby coloin » Tue May 15, 2007 5:20 pm

del
Last edited by coloin on Tue May 15, 2007 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby coloin » Tue May 15, 2007 5:24 pm

del
Last edited by coloin on Tue May 15, 2007 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JPF » Tue May 15, 2007 6:44 pm

I don't see the need to have 2 lists...

The gsf's list (maybe completed) contains all the required data.

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Postby gsf » Tue May 15, 2007 7:38 pm

JPF wrote:I don't see the need to have 2 lists...

The gsf's list (maybe completed) contains all the required data.

40 in the post 2 back are not in the list
I'm rating them now and will merge in

I do have a request for puzzle catalog/compilations on the forums
could we adopt CSV (character separated field newline separated record) formats
so that we won't have to continually convert from one visual format to another
this has been a source of error for me and I'm sure others
CSV formats are much friendlier as progam input and also lend themselves to db-type operations

if there is a problem converting from one format to another you can use my solver to assist the conversion

my solver also supports a schema magic header
#!sudoku -cN<separator>field-1<separator>...
where N is the field containing the puzzle grid
<separator> is the field separator character,
and field-i are the field names

e.g., the hardest catalog has this header
Code: Select all
#!sudoku -c4,Q1,ER,XR,puzzle,label,Q1time,ERtime,stats

where -c4 specifies that the puzzle grid is in the 4th comma-separated field in each line

any catalog with this header can be used as input to my solver with no options needed
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Postby gsf » Fri May 18, 2007 4:31 am

all of the puzzles gathered from this thread and thread-related pm's (691 total) are posted here
9 singles backdoor conjecture breakers at the top
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Postby AW » Sat May 19, 2007 8:50 pm

tarek wrote:I was wondering how AW would rate the latest batch of puzzles I posted here that have a q1 rating of >95000

Sure thing. Took a little while, but I did manage to make Solver work through a batch file! They all get 1 sword, except these four that get 2 swords : ULTRA0303, ULTRA0315, ULTRA0321, ULTRA0339.

It's rather strange to me. I kinda had it in my mind that anything that didn't have any backdoors would get at least one jelly. Shows what I know.:D

I'll be working on my solver a bit to make it solve new ones and also to make it calculate some kind of clearer rating, as I promised myself I'd do if there was ever a puzzle it couldn't solve. Hopefully, it will give some measure of how deep and extensive the nets are. Your puzzles have me stumped, tarek. They are obviously extremely complex, yet Solver consistently gives them low marks. Only thing I can figure is, although their nets aren't so deep, they are exceptionally extensive. I should be done in... a while...
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Postby tarek » Mon May 21, 2007 10:06 am

thanx AW,

That batch of puzzles rated highly on most of the rating programs....

So not qiute sure what it means if it didn't on yours........

bu the way, are there any puzzles that your solver can't solve ?

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Postby StrmCkr » Fri May 25, 2007 8:44 am

yip then i deleted my post as its Er rating is 10.6 pretty good i guess

these guys are getting 11 + on ratings alot now.

not sure if its a backdoor size three... was checking that ...

then i deleted the post so here it is again.


oysterkite wrote:

Try this puzzle. It's know as Qassim Hamza
and some people regard it as among the most difficult puzzles ever created.
[ 22 clues ]
Code: Select all
:

 . . . | 7 . . | 8 . .
 . . . | . 4 . | . 3 .
 . . . | . . 9 | . . 1
-------+-------+------
 6 . . | 5 . . | . . .
 . 1 . | . 3 . | . 4 .
 . . 5 | . . 1 | . . 7
-------+-------+------
 5 . . | 2 . . | 6 . .
 . 3 . | . 8 . | . 9 .
 . . 7 | . . . | . . 2



Some do, some teach, the rest look it up.
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re: Qassim Hamza

Postby Pat » Fri May 25, 2007 9:32 am

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Postby Ocean » Sat May 26, 2007 7:29 pm

Here is a puzzle that seems to have singles backdoor size 3 (M3). Maybe the 'easiest' such puzzle so far?
Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |..1|...|2..|
 |.3.|...|.4.|
 |5..|.3.|..6|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|1.7|...|
 |.4.|...|.8.|
 |...|9.2|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |3..|...|..8|
 |.6.|.5.|.3.|
 |..2|...|7..|
 *-----------*
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