Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby tarek » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:27 am

This thread is dedicated to Hidden quad puzzles. Please feel free to post the puzzles for verification.

there are several ways to define a hidden Quad puzzle
    The "Hidden quad puzzle" according to sudoku explainer has ER = 5.4
    The "Hidden quad puzzle" according to gsf sudoku solver (-qFNBHTW-G -Q!FNBTWH2H3-G)
    The "Pure Hidden quad" which is a "Hidden Quad puzzles" but also solves using Singles & Hidden Quads only.
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby tarek » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:27 am

RESERVED
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Re: re: 5.4

Postby champagne » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:52 am

here Pat wrote:yes i am interested

    and for me, they needn't be "diamonds";

    "diamonds" are best for the Patterns Game,
    but non-"diamonds" are often more interesting puzzles (for me).


Hi Pat,

I'll prepare to day a zip file and load it on my site this afternoon

just using as seed the 5.4 diamonds I got in that game and doing generation

-1+1
-1+2
-2+2 (the most productive by far)

I got about 10 000 ER=5.4 puzzles (may be 2 or 3 hours search for a 3 GHz core)

So it would not be too difficult to extend the search using other seeds given buy the pattern game.
Unhappily, I have not the full database and I am leaving the day after to morrow.

I'll add, in case it's of any interest to tarek the ER 5.4 non diamond I got in game 161

champagne

EDIT
I just omitted to say that these puzzles have not been checked for morphs
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Postby Pat » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:10 am


    the outstanding puzzle from champagne's 2nd batch —

      .....1..2.2..3.4....452..6...7.....1.62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9..... # 8~:10


    and these 2 (from champagne's 3rd batch)
    would fit nicely in the "superior plus" collection —

      .....1..2.2..3.4...9526..7...3.....8.76...23.9.....1...4..7.5......2..4.7..9.....
      .....1....3..4.5....162..3...6.....7.28...49.1.....2...85.946....3.8..5.9..7.....
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Postby ronk » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:51 pm

Here are the eight 5.4/5.4/5.4 diamonds submitted in the Patterns Game through game 0161 (including one "::: more :::" submission).

Code: Select all
...........18.76...965.438..18...94...........63...17..597.341...79.65........... # game 0030 - gsf
..1...2...2.3.4.1.4.......3.5.4.3.6...........7.2.1.8.7.......9.9.5.8.3...2...4.. # game 0058 - JPF
...1.2.3.1.....4...35..46..7.62.5..8.........8..4.62.7..27..59...4.....3.7.6.9... # game 0072 - Mauricio
..........12..3..4.45..6..2....1..5....7..2...87..5..1....6.9.....3...1..98..4..5 # game 0104 - m_b_metcalf
....1.23......3..1...4.256..5.7.481...........671.8.5..163.5...9..6......73.4.... # game 0111 - joel64
...1..4.3...6.3.2.....25..675....89...8...3...34....155..87.....7.2.1...1.9..4... # game 0142 - Patrice
...7..9.2...2.1.......85..627....84...4...5...13....293..45.....6.8.7...7.8..9... # game 0149 - ronk
.....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5..... # game 0161 - champagne

The 6th and 7th patterns are identical ... and the 5th, 6th and 7th patterns are not row minlex.
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby champagne » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:30 pm

This is the link to a txt file containing 9023 puzzles


here

The list itself has been checked for no redundancy,

But some puzzles have already been published

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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby Thierry Moreau » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:54 am

champagne wrote:This is the link to a txt file containing 9023 puzzles


I picked this one from the list

.....1..263..2.4.....64..31..7.....8.42...51.9.....2...6..187....3.5....7..9.....

and I turned it into this one

8....1....7..2.6....25...3...7.....8.4.....1.9.....2...6...97....3.4..2....8....1

Nice looking pattern, an ideal puzzle, 22 clues, not too trivial for a human.

Sorry if this is out of scope, I am investigating puzzle structures with a different approach.

Thank for your patience.

- Thierry

[ronk-moderator edit: replaced missing clue 3 at r2c2 in first puzzle]
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Patterns with no Hidden quads

Postby tarek » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:05 pm

The technique hierarchy that is currently employed in Explainer and others effectively means that it will be impossible to find a hidden quad if the pattern doesn't have a house with no clues in it!!!

That means if each sector (row, column and box) has at least one clue, then it will be impossible to find a hidden quad by Explainer

[edit: added last paragraph]
Last edited by tarek on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patterns with no Hidden quads

Postby ronk » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:24 pm

tarek wrote:The technique hierarchy that is currently employed in Explainer and others effectively means that it will be impossible to find a hidden quad if the pattern doesn't have a house with no clues in it!!!

A naked quad generally takes precedence over a hidden quad, so I think you mean ... "unless the pattern has a sector (unit, house) without a fill (clue or placement).
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby tarek » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:50 pm

Thanks ronk. I should avoid these double negative statements
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby champagne » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:36 pm

the list of puzzles rating 5.4 from my cache in the current game

champagne


.....1.23...4..51.....5.6.4.7.8.64....9..7...6..12.....346....559.......2.6...8..;5.4;2;2
.....1.23...4..56.....5.7.4.8.1.24....6..8...2..57.....439....716.......9.5...6..;5.4;2;2
.....1.23...4..51.....3.6.7.6.1.43....8..5...4..78.....736....982.......5.6...2..;5.4;2;2
.....1.23...2..45.....6.7.8.3.6.81....7..9...6..14.....239....446.......7.9...8..;5.40;4.00;3.40
.....1.23...3..45.....5.6.7.8.1.67....1..9...7..84.....189....647.......5.6...2..;5.40;3.60;3.60
.....1.23...3..45.....6.7.1.6.4.23....8..9...9..65.....418....772.......8.9...1..;5.40;3.40;3.40
.....1.23...2..45.....5.6.7.8.4.37....4..2...1..78.....236....941.......6.8...5..;5.40;3.00;3.00
.....1.23...4..56.....2.1.7.2.1.73....8..3...6..29.....718....548.......5.9...7..;5.40;2.30;2.30
.....1.23...4..15.....3.6.7.2.6.73....8..4...9..51.....897....246.......5.2...9..;5.40;2.30;2.30
.....1.23...4..51.....6.7.4.5.1.84....1..2...7..93.....238....967.......9.8...2..;5.40;2.30;2.30
.....1.23...2..45.....5.6.7.8.4.37....6..9...4..58.....231....914.......6.8...3..;5.40;2.30;2.30
.....1.23...2..14.....3.5.6.7.8.56....8..2...1..49.....349....576.......9.5...4..;5.40;2.30;2.30
.....1.23...2..45.....3.6.1.7.8.23....9..6...8..57.....314....998.......5.4...2..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....2.6.7.6.4.78....8..9...1..86.....817....454.......9.6...3..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..56.....2.4.7.4.5.78....9..3...1..89.....917....565.......3.7...1..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....5.6.7.8.1.69....4..8...9..57.....394....672.......4.5...2..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..45.....5.6.1.7.3.68....9..2...3..54.....571....624.......1.8...7..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..56.....5.7.8.8.6.32....3..8...2..59.....157....443.......7.9...6..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..15.....5.6.7.2.1.83....7..2...9..54.....726....843.......6.9...7..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..45.....3.6.1.4.1.78....7..6...8..92.....196....557.......4.3...9..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....2.6.7.4.5.78....1..4...9..21.....548....669.......3.7...5..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....2.6.7.6.4.78....8..9...1..86.....867....454.......9.1...3..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..45.....5.6.7.8.7.59....6..3...4..18.....729....434.......9.1...7..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..56.....3.7.8.5.6.89....8..4...1..97.....691....548.......7.5...6..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..51.....6.7.8.1.6.43....5..7...4..18.....675....985.......3.9...2..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..45.....3.6.7.4.6.27....2..5...7..18.....954....667.......4.8...9..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....5.6.1.6.5.47....2..8...9..16.....982....457.......2.1...9..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..41.....5.6.7.4.6.32....8..4...6..57.....538....271.......8.4...3..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..14.....5.6.7.4.8.27....9..6...8..31.....234....195.......6.4...3..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..51.....6.7.4.5.7.83....9..2...8..53.....461....779.......1.8...2..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....2.6.7.6.4.78....8..9...1..86.....817....454.......3.6...5..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..56.....3.1.7.2.6.37....4..8...6..59.....328....195.......8.7...2..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..56.....3.7.8.2.8.93....9..5...7..61.....821....549.......1.3...6..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...4..56.....3.7.8.2.8.93....9..5...7..14.....826....949.......6.3...2..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....5.6.7.2.8.73....4..9...1..56.....384....661.......4.5...9..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...3..45.....2.6.7.4.1.73....8..3...7..65.....257....689.......6.7...8..;5.40;2.00;2.00
.....1.23...2..45.....6.1.7.8.3.27....9..8...5..69.....379....449.......6.8...3..;5.40;1.50;1.50
.....1.23...4..51.....3.6.4.1.6.78....9..2...6..84.....265....997.......4.8...1..;5.40;1.50;1.50
.....1.23...4..51.....3.6.7.1.8.63....9..2...8..94.....285....476.......3.5...1..;5.40;1.50;1.50
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby pjb » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:15 am

When designing my solver, I decided naked quins were easier to code than hidden quads. The consequence of this (since I check for naked sets before hidden sets) is that I will never find a hidden quad, since whether there are 9, 8, 7 or 6 unsolved cells in a unit, the corresponding naked quin, quad, triple or pair respectively will get in first. Are others in this situation?

In the rare event of naked sextuplet/hidden triplet, or naked septuplet/hidden pair, I have hidden pairs and triplets enabled.

Happy New Year
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby tarek » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:08 pm

pjb wrote:When designing my solver, I decided naked quins were easier to code than hidden quads. The consequence of this (since I check for naked sets before hidden sets) is that I will never find a hidden quad, since whether there are 9, 8, 7 or 6 unsolved cells in a unit, the corresponding naked quin, quad, triple or pair respectively will get in first. Are others in this situation?
The 5.4 hidden quad in Explainer must have a complementary naked Quint. If your solver is designed to catch those 1st then you are correct in that you will never catch a hidden quad.
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby dobrichev » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:55 am

Here are 5646 puzzles from game 162 with EP=5.4.
214 of them are pearls and therefore "pure" according to tarek's definition in the opening post.
Attachments
g162_ep54.zip
(54.85 KiB) Downloaded 105 times
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Re:

Postby dobrichev » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:38 am

Pat wrote:* "pearl" does not imply "Pure"

Right, 5.4/5.4/d allows d higher than singles.
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