The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **tarek** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:31 pm

After processing nearly 9300 puzzles here are the puzzles that stand out:

Code: Select all: TTHsieh-0003 ER = 5.4 Requires 2 Hidden quads Fully symmetric & minimal Doesn't solve with FNBHTW +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . 1 | 2 . 3 | 4 . . | | . 2 . | 1 . 4 | . 5 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 1 3 | . . . | 5 4 . | | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . 6 7 | . . . | 1 2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 5 . | 6 . 2 | . 8 . | | . . 6 | 7 . 8 | 3 . . | | . . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+

Code: Select all: Pure 1 Hidden quad Solve with FNBHTW Stable with X cycles Symmetric & minimal ER = 5.4 .....1..2.2..3.4....526..7...8.....5.46...28.3.....1...6..849....9.2..3.8..9.....#champagne-0365 .....1..2.3..2.4....253..6...6.....3.24...78.5.....9...5..748....7.8..9.8..6.....#champagne-0369 .....1..2.3..2.4....253..6...6.....3.24...78.9.....1...5..748....7.8..5.8..6.....#champagne-0376 ...1..2...3.4.5.......26..517.....5...6...1...4.....388..56.......3.8.4...9..2...#champagne-0525 ...1..2...3.4.5.......67..515.....3...6...1...4.....878..57.......3.6.4...9..2...#champagne-0526 ...1..2...1.3.4.......25..675.....6...8...9...3.....458..21.......6.3.7...9..7...#champagne-0528 ...1..2...3.4.2.......56..715.....6...2...8...9.....746..38.......6.5.3...1..9...#champagne-0548 .....9.87....8.654...6..39...2..7..6.4.....1.5..4..9...25..3...817.9....43.2.....#champagne-0577 .....9.87....6.543...5..69...3..6..5.8.....2.2..7..9...67..1...348.9....12.6.....#champagne-0594 .....9.87....7.654...6..39...2..4..6.7.....2.5..7..9...83..1...954.8....12.3.....#champagne-0596 .....9.87....6.543...5..29...7..1..5.4.....6.2..3..9...62..4...784.9....35.8.....#champagne-0598 .....9.87....8.654...6..93...3..2..6.4.....2.5..1..8...95..7...834.2....71.9.....#champagne-0608 .....9.87....6.543...5..29...2..6..5.3.....6.4..7..9...24..1...983.4....51.2.....#champagne-0623 .....9.87....6.549...8..36...3..2..5.5.....9.4..5..7...35..4...894.1....62.3.....#champagne-0625 .....9.87....8.654...6..39...2..5..8.4.....2.5..7..9...37..1...485.9....12.3.....#champagne-0627 .....9.87....7.654...6..39...3..2..6.2.....4.4..1..9...35..7...842.5....17.3.....#champagne-0628 .....9.87....6.543...5..69...7..2..5.8.....2.4..3..8...69..1...874.9....31.6.....#champagne-0633 .....9.87....6.543...8..69...2..4..5.5.....7.3..2..9...61..8...834.2....27.1.....#champagne-0655 .....1..2.3..4.5.....63..79..4.....8.73...64.8.....1..65..79.....9.6..5.4..8.....#champagne-6773 .....1..212..3.4.....26..7...3.....8.76...23.9.....1...4..76.....1.2..437..9.....#champagne-7706 .....1.23...4..15.....5.6.7.2.1.83....7..2...9..54.....726....843.......6.9...7..#champagne-9372

tarek

by **Pat** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:49 pm

superior plus

the following puzzles are likely to be interesting --
(most are from champagne, except the 2 noted)

.....1....29.3.4....452..6...7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
.....1....2..3.45...452..61..7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....

dobrichev

.....1..2.3..2.49...1.5..3...6.......57...12.8.....96..6..187....3.7..5.7..6.....

8..3.1..2...........7.4.9..1.......9..6.5.7..2.......4..8.9.6...........3..4.8..1

gsf # 24 # 43

<-- edit: found it

by **tarek** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:28 pm

Pat wrote:8..3.1..2...........7.4.9..1.......9..6.5.7..2.......4..8.9.6...........3..4.8..1 # this one from who? i need to track it down---

This one is on the list as posted by gsf

by **Pat** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:11 am

5....78...1..8..2...46....7..34.6...............2.86..1....59...5..6..4...23....1

Pat # 289 # (258812) #

Layout 289

Code: Select all: 5 . . | . . 7 | 8 . . . 1 . | . 8 . | . 2 . . . 4 | 6 . . | . . 7 -------+-------+------ . . 3 | 4 . 6 | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | 2 . 8 | 6 . . -------+-------+------ 1 . . | . . 5 | 9 . . . 5 . | . 6 . | . 4 . . . 2 | 3 . . | . . 1

by **rjamil** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:52 pm

Hi all,

is there anybody here who knows he's/she's able to program Hidden Quad search easily?

My solver search naked single, hidden single, naked pair, hidden pair, naked triplet, hidden triplet, naked quad, hidden quad and then other techniques.

R. Jamil

by **David P Bird** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:29 pm

rjamil, following your <earlier query>, where Blue showed my algorithm missed some locked set instances, I eventually wrote a different version for my Excel spreadsheet. It runs through the possible positions for 1 to 4 cells for set 1 and accumulates the digits they hold. Set 2 is the complementary set for which the digits are also accumulated. If set 1 isn't a naked set, the digits common to both sets are removed and it is tested to see if it is a hidden set.

The same code therefore tests for all locked sets that can exist in a house.

I should explain I call the binary representation of the digits 'BitValues' which are treated as integers [0..511] in my code allowing them to be used with logical AND and OR operators.
The code contains calls to a 'BitCount' function which returns how many bits are set = number of digits or cells involved.

Code: Select all: Function FindLSet(VDomain As Range, VMask As Integer, PMask As Integer) As Integer 'Returns the bitvalue of a locked set, either naked or hidden, found in a house 'VDomain: bivalue array of the digit values by position in the house 'VMask, PMask: bitvalues of unsolved values & positions in the house Dim x As Single 'General purpose loop counter Dim xbv As Integer 'The bitvalue of x Dim PC As Single 'Unsolved Position counter Dim Pbv(9) As Integer 'Array of the Bitvalues of the unsolved positions Dim P1 As Single, P2 As Single, P3 As Single 'Loop counters for test positions Dim P4 As Single ' " " " " " Dim S1P As Integer 'Set 1 cell positions as bitvalues Dim S1PC As Single 'Set1 Position Count (will be 1 to 4 ) Dim S1V As Integer, S2V As Integer 'Bitvalues of the digit values in sets 1 & 2 Dim CommonV As Integer 'Bitvalue of the digit values in both sets 'Shortlist the unsolved positions to avoid repeated testing. For x = 1 To 9 'collect the unsolved positions xbv = 2 ^ (x - 1) 'the bitvalue of x If (xbv And PMask) > 0 Then 'the position is unsolved PC = PC + 1 'increment the count Pbv(PC) = xbv 'store the position as bitvalue in array End If Next x 'VBasic returns 0 for a false condition and -1 for a true one. 'As a zero value is a null entry, these nested loops give a search order of 'singles, doubles, triples, quads either naked or hidden. For P1 = 0 To (3 - PC) * (PC > 7) 'if PC <8 this loop never operates For P2 = P1 + 1 + (P1 = 0) To (2 - PC) * (PC > 5) 'if PC <6 this loop never operates For P3 = P2 + 1 + (P2 = 0) To PC - 1 'this posn (starts at 0 if P2=0, else it is P2+1) For P4 = P3 + 1 To PC 'highest posn S1P = Pbv(P1) + Pbv(P2) + Pbv(P3) + Pbv(P4) 'bitvalue of the test positions S1PC = BitCount(S1P) 'set1 position count S1V = 0 'reset values in set1 S2V = 0 'reset values in set2 For x = 1 To 9 'loop through all positions If ((2 ^ (x - 1)) And S1P) <> 0 Then 'the cell position is in set1 S1V = S1V Or VDomain(x) 'add its values to set1 Else S2V = S2V Or VDomain(x) 'add its values to set2 End If Next x S2V = S2V And VMask 'remove known digit values from set2 CommonV = S1V And S2V 'values in both sets If CommonV <> 0 Then 'when common=0 there are no eliminations If BitCount(S1V) = S1PC Then 'set1 = naked set, set2 = hidden set FindLSet = S1V Else S1V = S1V And (511 - CommonV) 'reduce set1 to locked values If BitCount(S1V) = S1PC Then FindLSet = S2V 'set1 = hidden set, set2 = naked set End If End If If FindLSet <> 0 Then Exit Function End If Next P4 Next P3 Next P2 Next P1 End Function

Even if you can't translate the code, it should be enough to demonstrate the approach I came up with.

DPB

by **rjamil** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:57 pm

Hi,

Checked:

Code: Select all: 21.....7..39.7.......28.......6...2.8.........6..587...4.......1..9..6....5.41.89

It solved with one hidden pair, one hidden quad and all naked / hidden singles.

R. Jamil

Edit 20170823: Find below steps to solve the puzzle:

Code: Select all: 21.....7..39.7.......28.......6...2.8.........6..587...4.......1..9..6....5.41.89 Moderate 0) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 468 at Cell 2 1) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 145 at Cell 12 2) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 1234 at Cell 47 3) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 3679 at Cell 54 4) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 1349 at Cell 52 5) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 134 at Cell 53 6) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 3578 at Cell 57 7) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 5 from Values 345 at Cell 3 8) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 278 at Cell 64 9) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 6 from Values 367 at Cell 72 10) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 6 from Values 467 at Cell 20 11) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 27 at Cell 73 12) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 78 13) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 75 34) Found Hidden pair Cell Values 28 at Unit 1 Cells 15 17 181) Found Hidden quad Cell Values 1279 at Unit 4 Cells 37 38 40 41 14) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 1347 at Cell 29 15) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 45 16) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 48 17) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 39 18) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 19 at Cell 31 19) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 3 from Values 358 at Cell 35 20) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 58 at Cell 33 21) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 15 22) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 17 23) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 17 at Cell 38 24) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 3 from Values 1345 at Cell 25 25) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1459 at Cell 24 26) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 60 27) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 42 28) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 6 29) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 61 30) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 70 31) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 49 at Cell 23 32) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 32 33) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 27 34) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 28 35) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 9 36) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 37 37) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 14 38) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 4 39) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 5 40) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 8 41) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 44 42) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 43 43) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 67 44) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 40 45) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 58 46) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 59 47) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 56 48) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 65 49) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 62 50) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 68 51) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 41 52) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 71 53) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 16 54) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 26 55) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 19 56) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 18 1) 218534976439176258756289134594617823871392465362458791947863512183925647625741389 # S19 # N37 # H20 # G0 # D0 # 0.000000

by **eleven** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:16 pm

... or the hidden pair 14c3 alone ...

by **pjb** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:05 pm

Regarding this puzzle "21.....7..39.7.......28.......6...2.8.........6..587...4.......1..9..6....5.41.89" , my solver solves it at line-box stage before testing for locked sets:
3s at r46c1 only ones in column => -3 r45c3.
3s at r56c4 only ones in column => -3 r45c56.
4s at r45c3 only ones in column => -4 r46c1.
solved!

No need for locked sets, hidden or otherwise.
Here's a nice example from a set published by Champage: ".....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5....."
In box 5, there is a naked quin and it's complementary hidden quad.
Personally I find it simpler to code naked quins, but each to his/her own.
Phil

by **rjamil** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:17 am

Hi,

pjb wrote:Personally I find it simpler to code naked quins, but each to his/her own.

That's why I asked again for hidden quad (or tuples) searching routine whether simple or still complicated for one to code.

pjb wrote:Here's a nice example from a set published by Champage: ".....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5....."
In box 5, there is a naked quin and it's complementary hidden quad.

Here is steps to solve the puzzle by my solver:

Code: Select all: .....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5..... 154) Found Hidden quad Cell Values 1238 at Unit 22 Cells 30 32 48 50 89) Found Row wise Sword Fish for Value 4 at r349c156 7) Found Hidden pair Cell Values 24 at Unit 21 Cells 27 47 31) Found Pointing and Claiming Intersection Removal Value 1 at Cells 28 37 46 22) Found XY-Wings Type 1 in Cells 32 27 23 Values 248 remove 4 from Cell 18 0) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 347 at Cell 2 1) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 47 2) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 27 3) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 48 at Cell 23 4) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 479 at Cell 39 5) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4568 at Cell 53 6) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 467 at Cell 76 27) Found Pointing and Claiming Intersection Removal Value 3 at Cells 0 9 18 36) Found Box-Line Reduction Intersection Removal Value 9 at Cells 3 12 21 40) Found Box-Line Reduction Intersection Removal Value 6 at Cells 31 40 49 50) Found Row wise Sword Fish for Value 5 at r146c258 7) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 5 from Values 256 at Cell 63 8) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 36 9) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 579 at Cell 31 10) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 7 from Values 78 at Cell 33 11) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 126 at Cell 54 12) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2369 at Cell 79 13) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 1679 at Cell 80 14) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 89 at Cell 19 15) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 378 at Cell 1 16) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 7 from Values 17 at Cell 11 5) Found Naked pair Cell Values 36 at Unit 0 Cells 0 6 17) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 3 from Values 36 at Cell 61 18) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 56 19) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 57 20) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 3 21) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 12 22) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 14 23) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 4 24) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 40 25) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 41 26) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 44 27) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 34 28) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 32 29) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 30 30) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 48 31) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 49 32) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 46 33) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 50 34) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 52 35) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 16 36) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 28 37) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 62 38) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 66 39) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 69 40) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 71 41) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 64 42) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 68 43) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 73 44) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 74 45) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 7 46) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 77 47) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 78 48) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 24 49) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 6 50) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 0 51) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 17 52) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 26 53) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 9 54) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 18 1) 384971652627835491195624378456192783938467215712358964241789536569213847873546129 # S1 # N40 # H15 # G0 # D0 # 0.000000

R. Jamil

Added:

pjb wrote:Personally I find it simpler to code naked quins, but each to his/her own.

Will you report beyond naked quad as its complementary hidden tuple or just naked tuples?

by **tarek** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:52 am

You don't need to look beyond the examples in my post at the top this page.

Tarek

by **rjamil** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:43 pm

Hi,

tarek wrote:You don't need to look beyond the examples in my post at the top this page.

Understand that sufficient Hidden Quad examples are present in your above mentioned posts in this thread.

However my question is that, if someone's solver detect naked tuples only, will he/she report naked quintuple, sextuple and septuplet search as hidden quad, triple and pair accordingly?

R. Jamil

by **eleven** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:10 pm

see next ..

by **eleven** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:24 pm

I don't care, how you implement it, but you should know, that for a manual non-pencilmark solver the 2 quads of the first sample jump into her eyes before starting to look for singles and pairs.

Code: Select all: +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . 1 |*2 . 3 | 4 . . | | . 2 . |*1 . 4 | . 5 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 1 3 | . x x | 5 4 . | | . . . | . x x | . . . | | .*6*7 | . . . |*1*2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 5 . |*6 . 2 | . 8 . | | . . 6 |*7 . 8 | 3 . . | | . . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+ +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . x | | . .*1 |*2 . 3 |*4 . . | | .*2 . |*1 . 4 | .*5 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 1 3 | . . . |*5*4 . | | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . 6 7 | . . . |*1*2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 5 . | 6 . 2 | . 8 x | | . . 6 | 7 . 8 | 3 . x | | . . . | . . . | . . x | +-------+-------+-------+

by **tarek** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:51 pm

I like how eleven emphasises the point! I agree with you eleven btw!!!

Pencil & paper solvers will always spot the hidden stuff first (tried & tested)

PM grid solvers tend to spot naked stuff first (generaly)

Experienced solvers will have a mix of both

When I designed a solver I always thought that looking at x number of cells is always easier than looking at x+y number of cells

Tarek

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Results after processing nearly 9300 puzzles

Re: re: Hidden Quad

from Layout 289 of the Patterns Game

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles