Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Results after processing nearly 9300 puzzles

Postby tarek » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:31 pm

After processing nearly 9300 puzzles here are the puzzles that stand out:

Code: Select all
TTHsieh-0003
ER = 5.4
Requires 2 Hidden quads
Fully symmetric & minimal
Doesn't solve with FNBHTW
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| . . 1 | 2 . 3 | 4 . . |
| . 2 . | 1 . 4 | . 5 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 1 3 | . . . | 5 4 . |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| . 6 7 | . . . | 1 2 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 5 . | 6 . 2 | . 8 . |
| . . 6 | 7 . 8 | 3 . . |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+


Code: Select all
Pure 1 Hidden quad
Solve with FNBHTW
Stable with X cycles
Symmetric & minimal
ER = 5.4
.....1..2.2..3.4....526..7...8.....5.46...28.3.....1...6..849....9.2..3.8..9.....#champagne-0365
.....1..2.3..2.4....253..6...6.....3.24...78.5.....9...5..748....7.8..9.8..6.....#champagne-0369
.....1..2.3..2.4....253..6...6.....3.24...78.9.....1...5..748....7.8..5.8..6.....#champagne-0376
...1..2...3.4.5.......26..517.....5...6...1...4.....388..56.......3.8.4...9..2...#champagne-0525
...1..2...3.4.5.......67..515.....3...6...1...4.....878..57.......3.6.4...9..2...#champagne-0526
...1..2...1.3.4.......25..675.....6...8...9...3.....458..21.......6.3.7...9..7...#champagne-0528
...1..2...3.4.2.......56..715.....6...2...8...9.....746..38.......6.5.3...1..9...#champagne-0548
.....9.87....8.654...6..39...2..7..6.4.....1.5..4..9...25..3...817.9....43.2.....#champagne-0577
.....9.87....6.543...5..69...3..6..5.8.....2.2..7..9...67..1...348.9....12.6.....#champagne-0594
.....9.87....7.654...6..39...2..4..6.7.....2.5..7..9...83..1...954.8....12.3.....#champagne-0596
.....9.87....6.543...5..29...7..1..5.4.....6.2..3..9...62..4...784.9....35.8.....#champagne-0598
.....9.87....8.654...6..93...3..2..6.4.....2.5..1..8...95..7...834.2....71.9.....#champagne-0608
.....9.87....6.543...5..29...2..6..5.3.....6.4..7..9...24..1...983.4....51.2.....#champagne-0623
.....9.87....6.549...8..36...3..2..5.5.....9.4..5..7...35..4...894.1....62.3.....#champagne-0625
.....9.87....8.654...6..39...2..5..8.4.....2.5..7..9...37..1...485.9....12.3.....#champagne-0627
.....9.87....7.654...6..39...3..2..6.2.....4.4..1..9...35..7...842.5....17.3.....#champagne-0628
.....9.87....6.543...5..69...7..2..5.8.....2.4..3..8...69..1...874.9....31.6.....#champagne-0633
.....9.87....6.543...8..69...2..4..5.5.....7.3..2..9...61..8...834.2....27.1.....#champagne-0655
.....1..2.3..4.5.....63..79..4.....8.73...64.8.....1..65..79.....9.6..5.4..8.....#champagne-6773
.....1..212..3.4.....26..7...3.....8.76...23.9.....1...4..76.....1.2..437..9.....#champagne-7706
.....1.23...4..15.....5.6.7.2.1.83....7..2...9..54.....726....843.......6.9...7..#champagne-9372


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Postby Pat » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:49 pm



        i filtered for "superior plus"
        (i.e. discarding any which need XY-Wing, XYZ-Wing, Unique rectangles and loops)

        = 6,545 puzzles, rather more than i'd try solving

the following puzzles are likely to be interesting --
(most are from champagne, except the 2 noted)

    .....1....29.3.4....452..6...7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1....2..3.45...452..61..7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....


    .....1...23..4.5..8.162..3...6.....7.28...49.1.....2......946....3.8..5.9..7.....
    .....1..2.2..3.4....452..6...7.....1.62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1.32.2..3.4....452..6...7...6.1.62...38.9.........8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1..2.2..3.4....45.9.6...7.....1.62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1.3..2..3.4....452..6...7.....1.62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1....2..3.45...452..6...7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..437..9.....
    .....1....2..3.45...452..6...7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635...95.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1..2.2..3.4.8..562..7.........9.72...36.9.....7...4..785......6..4.5..9....6
    .....1.23...2..45.....6.1.7.3.8.72....4..6...7..49.....839....294.......1.7...9.. # dobrichev

    .....1..2.3..4.5.....62.13...6.....7.28...49.1.....2...85.94.....3.8..5.9..7.....
    .....1..2.31.4.5.....62..3...6.....7.28...49.1.....2...85.94.....3.8..5.9..7.....
    .....1....3..4.5.68.162..3...6.....7.28...49.1.....2......946....3.8..5.9..7.....
    .....1..2.2..3.4.....62..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895.7..9.1..4.8..54....
    ....41..2.2..3......452..6...7.....1.62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1..2.3..2.4....564..3...7.....8.42...51.9.....2..5...18.....3.5.16.7..9.....
    ....81..2.1..3.4....2.6..7...8.....6.36...79.7.....2.8.4..759....5.9..4....3.....
    .....1..2.2..3.4..6.452......7.....1.62...38.9......7..8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    ....41..2.2..3......452..6...7...2.1.62...38.9.........8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....
    .....1...12..3.4....452..6...7.......62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9..8..
    ....41.3..2..3......452..6...7.....1.62...38.9.....2...8..635....5.8..4.7..9.....



    .....1..2.3..2.49...1.5..3...6.......57...12.8.....96..6..187....3.7..5.7..6.....

    .....1..2.2..3.4...9526..7...3.....8.76...23.9.....1...4..7.5......2..4.7..9.....
    .....1....3..4.5....162..3...6.....7.28...49.1.....2...85.946....3.8..5.9..7.....
    .....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.......9...42.89....59.1..4.8..5.....
    .....1..2.3..4.5....162..3..96.....7.28...49.1.....2...8..946....378..5..........
    .....1..2.3..4.5..4.162..3...6....7..28...49.1.....2...8..946....3.8....9..7.....
    .....1..2.3..4......162.53...6.....7.28...49.1.7...2......946....3.8..5.9..7.....

    8..3.1..2...........7.4.9..1.......9..6.5.7..2.......4..8.9.6...........3..4.8..1 # gsf # 24 # 43 { <-- edit: found it }

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Re: re: Hidden Quad

Postby tarek » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:28 pm

Pat wrote:8..3.1..2...........7.4.9..1.......9..6.5.7..2.......4..8.9.6...........3..4.8..1 # this one from who? i need to track it down---

This one is on the list as posted by gsf
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from Layout 289 of the Patterns Game

Postby Pat » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:11 am


    this puzzle only needs "basic" moves

    5....78...1..8..2...46....7..34.6...............2.86..1....59...5..6..4...23....1
    Pat # 289 # (258812) #

Code: Select all

 5 . . | . . 7 | 8 . .
 . 1 . | . 8 . | . 2 .
 . . 4 | 6 . . | . . 7
-------+-------+------
 . . 3 | 4 . 6 | . . .
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . . | 2 . 8 | 6 . .
-------+-------+------
 1 . . | . . 5 | 9 . .
 . 5 . | . 6 . | . 4 .
 . . 2 | 3 . . | . . 1

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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby rjamil » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:52 pm

Hi all,

is there anybody here who knows he's/she's able to program Hidden Quad search easily?

My solver search naked single, hidden single, naked pair, hidden pair, naked triplet, hidden triplet, naked quad, hidden quad and then other techniques.

R. Jamil
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby David P Bird » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:29 pm

rjamil, following your <earlier query>, where Blue showed my algorithm missed some locked set instances, I eventually wrote a different version for my Excel spreadsheet. It runs through the possible positions for 1 to 4 cells for set 1 and accumulates the digits they hold. Set 2 is the complementary set for which the digits are also accumulated. If set 1 isn't a naked set, the digits common to both sets are removed and it is tested to see if it is a hidden set.

The same code therefore tests for all locked sets that can exist in a house.

I should explain I call the binary representation of the digits 'BitValues' which are treated as integers [0..511] in my code allowing them to be used with logical AND and OR operators.
The code contains calls to a 'BitCount' function which returns how many bits are set = number of digits or cells involved.

Code: Select all
Function FindLSet(VDomain As Range, VMask As Integer, PMask As Integer) As Integer
'Returns the bitvalue of a locked set, either naked or hidden, found in a house
'VDomain: bivalue array of the digit values by position in the house
'VMask, PMask: bitvalues of unsolved values & positions in the house

Dim x As Single                              'General purpose loop counter
Dim xbv As Integer                           'The bitvalue of x
Dim PC As Single                             'Unsolved Position counter
Dim Pbv(9) As Integer                        'Array of the Bitvalues of the unsolved positions
Dim P1 As Single, P2 As Single, P3 As Single 'Loop counters for test positions
Dim P4 As Single                             ' "     "       "   "     "
Dim S1P As Integer                           'Set 1 cell positions as bitvalues
Dim S1PC As Single                           'Set1 Position Count (will be 1 to 4 )
Dim S1V As Integer, S2V As Integer           'Bitvalues of the digit values in sets 1 & 2
Dim CommonV As Integer                       'Bitvalue of the digit values in both sets

'Shortlist the unsolved positions to avoid repeated testing.
For x = 1 To 9                               'collect the unsolved positions
  xbv = 2 ^ (x - 1)                          'the bitvalue of x
  If (xbv And PMask) > 0 Then                'the position is unsolved
    PC = PC + 1                              'increment the count
    Pbv(PC) = xbv                            'store the position as bitvalue in array
  End If
Next x

'VBasic returns 0 for a false condition and -1 for a true one.
'As a zero value is a null entry, these nested loops give a search order of
'singles, doubles, triples, quads either naked or hidden.

For P1 = 0 To (3 - PC) * (PC > 7)                   'if PC <8 this loop never operates
  For P2 = P1 + 1 + (P1 = 0) To (2 - PC) * (PC > 5) 'if PC <6 this loop never operates
    For P3 = P2 + 1 + (P2 = 0) To PC - 1            'this posn (starts at 0 if P2=0, else it is P2+1)
      For P4 = P3 + 1 To PC                         'highest posn
        S1P = Pbv(P1) + Pbv(P2) + Pbv(P3) + Pbv(P4) 'bitvalue of the test positions
        S1PC = BitCount(S1P)                        'set1 position count
        S1V = 0                                     'reset values in set1
        S2V = 0                                     'reset values in set2
        For x = 1 To 9                              'loop through all positions
          If ((2 ^ (x - 1)) And S1P) <> 0 Then      'the cell position is in set1
            S1V = S1V Or VDomain(x)                 'add its values to set1
          Else
            S2V = S2V Or VDomain(x)                 'add its values to set2
          End If
        Next x
        S2V = S2V And VMask                         'remove known digit values from set2
        CommonV = S1V And S2V                       'values in both sets
        If CommonV <> 0 Then                        'when common=0 there are no eliminations
          If BitCount(S1V) = S1PC Then              'set1 = naked set, set2 = hidden set
            FindLSet = S1V
          Else
            S1V = S1V And (511 - CommonV)           'reduce set1 to locked values
            If BitCount(S1V) = S1PC Then
              FindLSet = S2V                        'set1 = hidden set, set2 = naked set
            End If
          End If
          If FindLSet <> 0 Then Exit Function
        End If
      Next P4
    Next P3
  Next P2
Next P1
End Function


Even if you can't translate the code, it should be enough to demonstrate the approach I came up with.

DPB
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby rjamil » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:57 pm

Hi,

Checked:
Code: Select all
21.....7..39.7.......28.......6...2.8.........6..587...4.......1..9..6....5.41.89
It solved with one hidden pair, one hidden quad and all naked / hidden singles.

R. Jamil

Edit 20170823: Find below steps to solve the puzzle:
Code: Select all
21.....7..39.7.......28.......6...2.8.........6..587...4.......1..9..6....5.41.89 Moderate
0) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 468 at Cell 2
1) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 145 at Cell 12
2) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 1234 at Cell 47
3) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 3679 at Cell 54
4) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 1349 at Cell 52
5) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 134 at Cell 53
6) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 3578 at Cell 57
7) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 5 from Values 345 at Cell 3
8) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 278 at Cell 64
9) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 6 from Values 367 at Cell 72
10) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 6 from Values 467 at Cell 20
11) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 27 at Cell 73
12) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 78
13) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 75
34) Found Hidden pair Cell Values 28 at Unit 1 Cells 15 17
181) Found Hidden quad Cell Values 1279 at Unit 4 Cells 37 38 40 41
14) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 1347 at Cell 29
15) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 45
16) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 48
17) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 39
18) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 19 at Cell 31
19) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 3 from Values 358 at Cell 35
20) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 58 at Cell 33
21) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 15
22) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 17
23) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 17 at Cell 38
24) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 3 from Values 1345 at Cell 25
25) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1459 at Cell 24
26) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 60
27) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 42
28) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 6
29) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 61
30) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 70
31) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 49 at Cell 23
32) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 32
33) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 27
34) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 28
35) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 9
36) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 37
37) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 14
38) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 4
39) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 5
40) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 8
41) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 44
42) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 43
43) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 67
44) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 40
45) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 58
46) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 59
47) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 56
48) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 65
49) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 62
50) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 68
51) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 41
52) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 71
53) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 16
54) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 26
55) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 19
56) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 18
1) 218534976439176258756289134594617823871392465362458791947863512183925647625741389 # S19 # N37 # H20 # G0 # D0 # 0.000000
Last edited by rjamil on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby eleven » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:16 pm

... or the hidden pair 14c3 alone ...
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby pjb » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:05 pm

Regarding this puzzle "21.....7..39.7.......28.......6...2.8.........6..587...4.......1..9..6....5.41.89" , my solver solves it at line-box stage before testing for locked sets:
3s at r46c1 only ones in column => -3 r45c3.
3s at r56c4 only ones in column => -3 r45c56.
4s at r45c3 only ones in column => -4 r46c1.
solved!

No need for locked sets, hidden or otherwise.
Here's a nice example from a set published by Champage: ".....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5....."
In box 5, there is a naked quin and it's complementary hidden quad.
Personally I find it simpler to code naked quins, but each to his/her own.
Phil
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby rjamil » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:17 am

Hi,

pjb wrote:Personally I find it simpler to code naked quins, but each to his/her own.

That's why I asked again for hidden quad (or tuples) searching routine whether simple or still complicated for one to code.

pjb wrote:Here's a nice example from a set published by Champage: ".....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5....."
In box 5, there is a naked quin and it's complementary hidden quad.

Here is steps to solve the puzzle by my solver:
Code: Select all
.....1..2.2..3.4....562..7...6.....3.38...21.7.....9...4..895....9.1..4.8..5.....
154) Found Hidden quad Cell Values 1238 at Unit 22 Cells 30 32 48 50
89) Found Row wise Sword Fish for Value 4 at r349c156
7) Found Hidden pair Cell Values 24 at Unit 21 Cells 27 47
31) Found Pointing and Claiming Intersection Removal Value 1 at Cells 28 37 46
22) Found XY-Wings Type 1 in Cells 32 27 23 Values 248 remove 4 from Cell 18
0) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 347 at Cell 2
1) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 47
2) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4 at Cell 27
3) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 48 at Cell 23
4) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 479 at Cell 39
5) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 4568 at Cell 53
6) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 4 from Values 467 at Cell 76
27) Found Pointing and Claiming Intersection Removal Value 3 at Cells 0 9 18
36) Found Box-Line Reduction Intersection Removal Value 9 at Cells 3 12 21
40) Found Box-Line Reduction Intersection Removal Value 6 at Cells 31 40 49
50) Found Row wise Sword Fish for Value 5 at r146c258
7) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 5 from Values 256 at Cell 63
8) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 36
9) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 579 at Cell 31
10) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 7 from Values 78 at Cell 33
11) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 126 at Cell 54
12) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2369 at Cell 79
13) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 1679 at Cell 80
14) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 9 from Values 89 at Cell 19
15) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 8 from Values 378 at Cell 1
16) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 7 from Values 17 at Cell 11
5) Found Naked pair Cell Values 36 at Unit 0 Cells 0 6
17) Apply Hidden Single Cell Value 3 from Values 36 at Cell 61
18) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 56
19) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 57
20) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 3
21) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 12
22) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 14
23) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 4
24) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 40
25) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 41
26) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 44
27) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 34
28) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 32
29) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 30
30) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 48
31) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 49
32) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 46
33) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 50
34) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 52
35) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 9 from Values 9 at Cell 16
36) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 28
37) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 62
38) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 2 from Values 2 at Cell 66
39) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 69
40) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 71
41) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 64
42) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 68
43) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 7 from Values 7 at Cell 73
44) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 74
45) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 5 from Values 5 at Cell 7
46) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 77
47) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 78
48) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 24
49) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 6
50) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 3 from Values 3 at Cell 0
51) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 17
52) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 8 from Values 8 at Cell 26
53) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 6 from Values 6 at Cell 9
54) Apply Naked Single Cell Value 1 from Values 1 at Cell 18
1) 384971652627835491195624378456192783938467215712358964241789536569213847873546129 # S1 # N40 # H15 # G0 # D0 # 0.000000

R. Jamil

Added:
pjb wrote:Personally I find it simpler to code naked quins, but each to his/her own.

Will you report beyond naked quad as its complementary hidden tuple or just naked tuples?
rjamil
 
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby tarek » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:52 am

You don't need to look beyond the examples in my post at the top this page.

Tarek
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tarek
 
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby rjamil » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:43 pm

Hi,
tarek wrote:You don't need to look beyond the examples in my post at the top this page.

Understand that sufficient Hidden Quad examples are present in your above mentioned posts in this thread.

However my question is that, if someone's solver detect naked tuples only, will he/she report naked quintuple, sextuple and septuplet search as hidden quad, triple and pair accordingly?

R. Jamil
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby eleven » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:10 pm

see next ..
Last edited by eleven on Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby eleven » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:24 pm

I don't care, how you implement it, but you should know, that for a manual non-pencilmark solver the 2 quads of the first sample jump into her eyes before starting to look for singles and pairs.
Code: Select all
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . . | . . . |
 | . . 1 |*2 . 3 | 4 . . |
 | . 2 . |*1 . 4 | . 5 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . 1 3 | . x x | 5 4 . |
 | . . . | . x x | . . . |
 | .*6*7 | . . . |*1*2 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . 5 . |*6 . 2 | . 8 . |
 | . . 6 |*7 . 8 | 3 . . |
 | . . . | . . . | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . . | . . x |
 | . .*1 |*2 . 3 |*4 . . |
 | .*2 . |*1 . 4 | .*5 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . 1 3 | . . . |*5*4 . |
 | . . . | . . . | . . . |
 | . 6 7 | . . . |*1*2 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . 5 . | 6 . 2 | . 8 x |
 | . . 6 | 7 . 8 | 3 . x |
 | . . . | . . . | . . x |
 +-------+-------+-------+
Last edited by eleven on Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hidden Quadruple (Quad) puzzles

Postby tarek » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:51 pm

I like how eleven emphasises the point! I agree with you eleven btw!!!

Pencil & paper solvers will always spot the hidden stuff first (tried & tested)

PM grid solvers tend to spot naked stuff first (generaly)

Experienced solvers will have a mix of both

When I designed a solver I always thought that looking at x number of cells is always easier than looking at x+y number of cells

Tarek
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