Gattais Galore!

For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants

Re: the fat ones

Postby enxio27 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:06 am

1to9only wrote:A 2x2 gattai in n-(n-1)-n configuration is a 2-1-2 gattai-5 samurai. In an n-(n+1)-n configuration, this becomes a 2-3-2 gattai-7 which I've named fat-samurai! For the 3x3 gattai, n-1 config is 3-2-3-2-3 gattai-13 sumo, n+1 config becomes 3-4-3-4-3 gatta-17 fat-sumo!! Every (n-1) gattai has a fat (n+1) equivalent! Here are some fat ones...

Very nice! I'm still hard at work on your Sumo in the first post, but I am looking forward to trying these out, as well, along with your other puzzles.

Going forward, you might consider posting each puzzle in its own thread in this forum section. I think that perhaps they will be more visible to others that way. I guarantee you that I will be watching for them.
User avatar
enxio27
 
Posts: 452
Joined: 13 November 2007

gattai difficulty level

Postby 1to9only » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:09 am

Still trying to figure out how to properly grade these gattais - I've got some stats off the solver, and (subjectively) selecting on the number of iterations through the sudokus (the more iterations the more difficult!), number of givens (the lesser the better! probably not true!!), if givens are evenly distributed (cosmetic only!), and the number of advanced methods in the hard gattais (the higher number the better! but might not be true!!).

Grading of the generated gattais are as follows:
Easy - requires only naked and hidden singles to solve.
Medium - cannot be solved by 'Easy' methods, requires locked candidates, naked and hidden pairs to complete.
Hard - cannot be solved by 'Medium' methods, requires other advanced methods (currently naked and hidden triples and quads, and the basic fishes) to finish solving. I have not coded other solving methods, so cannot make them any harder!

The samurai in post #1 is rated as Easy. The others (posts #1 and 6) are rated Medium.
1to9only
 
Posts: 133
Joined: 04 April 2018

cutting corners

Postby 1to9only » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:22 am

The Ninja-9 is a Sumo (gattai-13) with the 4 corner sudokus removed, and the Taiken-21 is a Shaolin (gattai-
25) with the 4 corner sudokus removed.

Ninja-9 [EASY]
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
.3...12.9....4.1.7..2.9.....2.4....57..5..8..1.5..3.42.....7.................8...
..763......9..7.....3.............35.4.5...1.5....3......3.2.......98.......64...
...8.........4..........798..1.5...328......13762...4..............68........5...
74.3.2........6...61..7....2....53.9.94.........96......8..7...1..6.........23...
.....1......7..............3..2.6.8.....7.....8.9.3..1..............7......4.....
...62.........3..6...5..4......72.........28.2.14....5....5..73...9........7.4.61
...7........24..............2...31561......733...1.8..514..........6.........9...
...56.......12.......8.4......4....9.8...6.1.13.............4.....9..3......476..
...8.................3.....96.4..5.8..3..8..62....6.9.....7.4..5.6.9....1.45...6.

. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 3 0 0 0 1 2 0 9 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 0 4 0 1 0 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .
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. . . . . . . . . . . . 7 0 0 5 0 0 8 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0 5 0 0 3 0 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 7 6 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 9 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 9 8 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 5 . . . 0 0 1 0 5 0 0 0 3 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 4 0 5 0 0 0 1 0 . . . 2 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 5 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 . . . 3 7 6 2 0 0 0 4 0 . . . . . .
7 4 0 3 0 2 0 0 0 3 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 2 0 0 0 0
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2 0 0 0 0 5 3 0 9 . . . 3 0 0 2 0 6 0 8 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 7 2 0 0 0
0 9 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 8 0
0 0 0 9 6 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 8 0 9 0 3 0 0 1 . . . 2 0 1 4 0 0 0 0 5
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0 0 0 0 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 4 0 0 0 7 0 4 0 6 1
. . . . . . 0 2 0 0 0 3 1 5 6 . . . 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 9 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 3 . . . 0 8 0 0 0 6 0 1 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 3 0 0 0 1 0 8 0 0 . . . 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 5 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 3 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 7 6 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 9 6 0 4 0 0 5 0 8 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 3 0 0 8 0 0 6 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0 0 0 0 6 0 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 0 7 0 4 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 5 0 6 0 9 0 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0 4 5 0 0 0 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .

            .3...12.9           
            ....4.1.7           
            ..2.9....           
            .2.4....5           
            7..5..8..           
            1.5..3.42           
      ..763......7...8.....     
      ..9..7..........4....     
      ..3........8......798     
      .......35   ..1.5...3     
      .4.5...1.   28......1     
      5....3...   3762...4.     
74.3.2...3.2.....1.........62....
.....6....98...7......68.....3..6
61..7.....64...........5...5..4..
2....53.9   3..2.6.8.   ....72...
.94......   ....7....   ......28.
...96....   .8.9.3..1   2.14....5
..8..7...7...........56.....5..73
1..6.....24......7...12....9.....
....23.........4.....8.4...7.4.61
      .2...3156   ...4....9     
      1......73   .8...6.1.     
      3...1.8..   13.......     
      514......8........4..     
      ....6..........9..3..     
      .....9...3......476..     
            96.4..5.8           
            ..3..8..6           
            2....6.9.           
            ....7.4..           
            5.6.9....           
            1.45...6.           

621 total cells
177 filled cells [28%]
444 empty cells

Ninja-9 [HARD]
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
2..493....7..6...2.9.7......54...1......17.....234..87.............3.............
....8....5..2.......87.9......8....9.236.1....8.3...64....3......................
.......6....98........7.2.....46597...6.....5....9.3..............3........6.9...
.1...4........8......1.....4...5....13..29.5.9.6..3......9.7....295.....7........
....38......92.......6.....7.....21.38..9..56.26.....7.....2.......43......76....
........9.....875....6.4......8..3.7.6.74..98....6...1.....9......4........1...7.
...3.4........8..............6.7....8.....6...93645.....8.3........86....2.......
......................7....29...3.5....9.843.8....2......3.76.......9..3....1....
.............7.............75..648.....79......4...76......5.2.2...3..4....921..8

. . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0 0 4 9 3 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 0 0 6 0 0 0 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 9 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 5 4 0 0 0 1 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 0 1 7 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 2 3 4 0 0 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 5 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 9 8 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 8 7 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 2 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 9 . . . 0 0 0 4 6 5 9 7 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 2 3 6 0 1 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 5 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 8 0 3 0 0 0 6 4 . . . 0 0 0 0 9 0 3 0 0 . . . . . .
0 1 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 7 5 0
0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 9 0 0 0 6 0 4 0 0 0
4 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 . . . 7 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 . . . 0 0 0 8 0 0 3 0 7
1 3 0 0 2 9 0 5 0 . . . 3 8 0 0 9 0 0 5 6 . . . 0 6 0 7 4 0 0 9 8
9 0 6 0 0 3 0 0 0 . . . 0 2 6 0 0 0 0 0 7 . . . 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 1
0 0 0 9 0 7 0 0 0 3 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0
0 2 9 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0
7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 6 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 7 0
. . . . . . 0 0 6 0 7 0 0 0 0 . . . 2 9 0 0 0 3 0 5 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 8 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 9 0 8 4 3 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 9 3 6 4 5 0 0 0 . . . 8 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 8 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 7 6 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 8 6 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 3 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 0 0 6 4 8 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 7 9 0 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 4 0 0 0 7 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 2 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 9 2 1 0 0 8 . . . . . . . . . . . .

            2..493...           
            .7..6...2           
            .9.7.....           
            .54...1..           
            ....17...           
            ..234..87           
      ....8..............6.     
      5..2......3....98....     
      ..87.9..........7.2..     
      ...8....9   ...46597.     
      .236.1...   ..6.....5     
      .8.3...64   ....9.3..     
.1...4....3.....38..............9
.....8.........92....3.......875.
...1...........6.....6.9...6.4...
4...5....   7.....21.   ...8..3.7
13..29.5.   38..9..56   .6.74..98
9.6..3...   .26.....7   ....6...1
...9.7...3.4.....2...........9...
.295.......8....43.........4.....
7..............76.....7....1...7.
      ..6.7....   29...3.5.     
      8.....6..   ...9.843.     
      .93645...   8....2...     
      ..8.3..........3.76..     
      ....86....7......9..3     
      .2..............1....     
            75..648..           
            ...79....           
            ..4...76.           
            .....5.2.           
            2...3..4.           
            ...921..8           

621 total cells
169 filled cells [27%]
452 empty cells

Taiken-21 [EASY]
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
8...7...4.76.23...9.....2.....3.2.68......1....5.86.92....58........1.......3....
....416....8.....26..2....7....2..54.37.9.2....1..4.................8......962...
3.94.....7.........5..7.......5..9..6...9..57.8...4........1........5.......4....
.....7...............6.......3.....89.6..54...8.3..5.....9..........3.......58...
....3..47...4..8..........3.....6..41...2.3...325..........2.......9........5....
.419........7.....9...1....5....2.431..65...8..7.....9.8..45.......9......3......
............1..................48..68.....4.96.1.7.......9........71.........2...
...26................5......98....5..6.3.5...1....2.......9.................27...
......4.3.......7....4...2......1...2.47...36.618.2.9.....7.3.....9.8......3.5..9
...5..................49...5...2..78........5..1..84.....17.........2.......9....
.....6................7....5...2......19.78......3...2....1................5.....
....3.......5.........72.....13..2..8........36..8...7...62..................5...
6..1.7......4.6.....1.3.....6.9.387.81...56.9...6......4...2....8.......7.6......
...31.................9.......4....1...6.5.2..3....58......9................53...
...4.........31........9.......9.8.69.2.....46..14..................6............
......9......9.......78..6.7.....5..5...36..121.5....3....6...5.....7........267.
....4........8.......5..........586...8.3...24..1.....6..........9..4...37..1....
...92.......3..........1.....3..6.1...17..6.26.....3.......3...............4.....
....3.......4........9........7...6.87..6...4..4..9.......2..8.........5.....73.6
...846......9.................7..4....5.3.18.48..9....5....8..38.....6....951....
....2.......7........36....93.18.6....7......84.6.9.....4.....5...85.36.5...1...7

. . . . . . . . . . . . 8 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 4 . . . 0 0 0 0 4 1 6 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 6 0 2 3 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 9 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 . . . 6 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 3 0 2 0 6 8 . . . 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 . . . 0 3 7 0 9 0 2 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 5 0 8 6 0 9 2 . . . 0 0 1 0 0 4 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . 3 0 9 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 8 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 4 7 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 4 0 0 8 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 5 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 9 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 5 0 0 9 0 0 . . . 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 8 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 4 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 6 0 0 0 9 0 0 5 7 . . . 9 0 6 0 0 5 4 0 0 . . . 1 0 0 0 2 0 3 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 8 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 . . . 0 8 0 3 0 0 5 0 0 . . . 0 3 2 5 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
0 4 1 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 3
0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0
9 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 8 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 2 0
5 0 0 0 0 2 0 4 3 . . . 0 0 0 0 4 8 0 0 6 . . . 0 9 8 0 0 0 0 5 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
1 0 0 6 5 0 0 0 8 . . . 8 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 9 . . . 0 6 0 3 0 5 0 0 0 . . . 2 0 4 7 0 0 0 3 6
0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 9 . . . 6 0 1 0 7 0 0 0 0 . . . 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 . . . 0 6 1 8 0 2 0 9 0
0 8 0 0 4 5 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 3 0 0
0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 8 0 0 0
0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 9 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 2 7 0 0 0 0 7 2 0 0 0 3 0 5 0 0 9
. . . . . . 5 0 0 0 2 0 0 7 8 . . . 5 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 1 3 0 0 2 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 . . . 0 0 1 9 0 7 8 0 0 . . . 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 1 0 0 8 4 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 2 . . . 3 6 0 0 8 0 0 0 7 . . . . . .
6 0 0 1 0 7 0 0 0 1 7 0 0 0 0 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0
0 0 0 4 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0
0 0 1 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 7 8 0 0 6 0
0 6 0 9 0 3 8 7 0 . . . 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 1 . . . 0 0 0 0 9 0 8 0 6 . . . 7 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0
8 1 0 0 0 5 6 0 9 . . . 0 0 0 6 0 5 0 2 0 . . . 9 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 4 . . . 5 0 0 0 3 6 0 0 1
0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 3 0 0 0 0 5 8 0 . . . 6 0 0 1 4 0 0 0 0 . . . 2 1 0 5 0 0 0 0 3
0 4 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 9 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 5
0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0
7 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 7 0
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 5 8 6 0 . . . 0 0 3 0 0 6 0 1 0 . . . 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 6 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 8 0 3 0 0 0 2 . . . 0 0 1 7 0 0 6 0 2 . . . 8 7 0 0 6 0 0 0 4 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 4 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 6 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 . . . 0 0 4 0 0 9 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 4 6 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 8 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 9 0 0 4 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 3 7 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 3 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 3 0 6 . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 7 0 0 4 0 0 . . . 9 3 0 1 8 0 6 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 5 0 3 0 1 8 0 . . . 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 4 8 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 . . . 8 4 0 6 0 9 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 5 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 3 . . . 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 8 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 8 5 0 3 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 9 5 1 0 0 0 0 . . . 5 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .

            8...7...4   ....416..           
            .76.23...   ..8.....2           
            9.....2..   6..2....7           
            ...3.2.68   ....2..54           
            ......1..   .37.9.2..           
            ..5.86.92   ..1..4...           
      3.94......58.....7..........3..47     
      7..........1...........8...4..8..     
      .5..7.....3....6.....962........3     
      ...5..9..   ..3.....8   .....6..4     
      6...9..57   9.6..54..   1...2.3..     
      .8...4...   .8.3..5..   .325.....     
.419.......1.........9.....26......2......4.3
...7.......5...1.......3..........9........7.
9...1.....4...........58...5......5....4...2.
5....2.43   ....48..6   .98....5.   .....1...
1..65...8   8.....4.9   .6.3.5...   2.47...36
..7.....9   6.1.7....   1....2...   .618.2.9.
.8..45...5.....9.......6....9.....3.....7.3..
....9..........71................5.....9.8...
..3.......49.....2....7.....27....72...3.5..9
      5...2..78   5...2....   ..13..2..     
      ........5   ..19.78..   8........     
      ..1..84..   ....3...2   36..8...7     
6..1.7...17....31.....1....4.....62.......9..
...4.6.....2................31..........9....
..1.3.....9.....9....5.......9.....5...78..6.
.6.9.387.   ...4....1   ....9.8.6   7.....5..
81...56.9   ...6.5.2.   9.2.....4   5...36..1
...6.....   .3....58.   6..14....   21.5....3
.4...2....4......9...92...........3.....6...5
.8........8..........3.......6...4.......7...
7.6......5......53.....1.........9.......267.
      .....586.   ..3..6.1.   ...7...6.     
      ..8.3...2   ..17..6.2   87..6...4     
      4..1.....   6.....3..   ..4..9...     
      6........846.....3....2.....2..8.     
      ..9..4...9...........7..........5     
      37..1..........4.....36......73.6     
            ...7..4..   93.18.6..           
            ..5.3.18.   ..7......           
            48..9....   84.6.9...           
            5....8..3   ..4.....5           
            8.....6..   ...85.36.           
            ..951....   5...1...7           

1413 total cells
372 filled cells [26%]
1041 empty cells

Taiken-21 [HARD]
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
2...94....8.2....6.695......4...7.8.......12.51..........16........8.......4.....
4..2.19...5.76.84.....4...7..4.836.....9..4..89....57............................
.3...9...5...6......74.........9634...25..........25...............2.......7.....
...7.........3.......2.....1..8..4......65....269...7...............2............
.......6.........2....7.1..8...3.5...7...6.2....5.1..7...1.5........4............
..3.......7...2...59.738...3..1......528.....14..2.......2......2...1...4....5...
.....1........3...............4....9.812...4....35.2.7..............2........5...
.............5........7.......819......3.....18.....76...1.........9.......7.6...
...4....5...3.641.......7..1.2...87..89.....4.....2..3....7........25..........8.
..............4......1.........3..8..5..4....2.95.7........3........8......4.....
.....1......83.........9...3.2....8..5.....9..8....2.4...4.........93......1.....
.....9......2........3........6.13.7....3..8..2..7.........6......4..............
.6..........23........7....8..6.....5.....41..29...6.7..4.......975.8...6....2...
...3.6.......4.........8...54.....31.....2......534.......5........8.............
...5........9..............5.3.89....4...132.1....4...............1........8.....
...4....5...5...6......2.......5..19.....458......8..4...731.48...8...9.......3..
............8........6.2...3..5.9....1.7...8...4.2...7..1.4....4.........5.......
............3...............6...342....28......8..9..1.....4.......9.........7...
.....2.......1...............91..........74...7823.........68......8...7...4...9.
............................59....72..1..7.....823.1..1...4.....35.68.1...43.9..8
.....3.......7........16..........92.18.......5.1...6......861.8....5.7....46...9

. . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0 0 0 9 4 0 0 0 . . . 4 0 0 2 0 1 9 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 0 2 0 0 0 0 6 . . . 0 5 0 7 6 0 8 4 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 6 9 5 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 4 0 0 0 7 0 8 0 . . . 0 0 4 0 8 3 6 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 . . . 0 0 0 9 0 0 4 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 8 9 0 0 0 0 5 7 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 3 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 5 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 7 4 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 1 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 9 6 3 4 0 . . . 1 0 0 8 0 0 4 0 0 . . . 8 0 0 0 3 0 5 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 6 5 0 0 0 . . . 0 7 0 0 0 6 0 2 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 0 0 . . . 0 2 6 9 0 0 0 7 0 . . . 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 7 . . . . . .
0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 5 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 5
0 7 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 3 0 6 4 1 0
5 9 0 7 3 8 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0
3 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 9 . . . 0 0 0 8 1 9 0 0 0 . . . 1 0 2 0 0 0 8 7 0
0 5 2 8 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 8 1 2 0 0 0 4 0 . . . 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 8 9 0 0 0 0 0 4
1 4 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 3 5 0 2 0 7 . . . 1 8 0 0 0 0 0 7 6 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 3
0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 8 3 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 0 0 0
4 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 7 0 6 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0
. . . . . . 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 8 0 . . . 3 0 2 0 0 0 0 8 0 . . . 0 0 0 6 0 1 3 0 7 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 5 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 8 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 2 0 9 5 0 7 0 0 0 . . . 0 8 0 0 0 0 2 0 4 . . . 0 2 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 3 0 6 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 5
0 0 0 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 9 3 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 6 0
0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0
8 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 . . . 5 4 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 . . . 5 0 3 0 8 9 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 9
5 0 0 0 0 0 4 1 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 . . . 0 4 0 0 0 1 3 2 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 4 5 8 0
0 2 9 0 0 0 6 0 7 . . . 0 0 0 5 3 4 0 0 0 . . . 1 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 4
0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 7 3 1 0 4 8
0 9 7 5 0 8 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 9 0
6 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 6 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0
. . . . . . 3 0 0 5 0 9 0 0 0 . . . 0 6 0 0 0 3 4 2 0 . . . 0 0 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 1 0 7 0 0 0 8 0 . . . 0 0 0 2 8 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 7 4 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 4 0 2 0 0 0 7 . . . 0 0 8 0 0 9 0 0 1 . . . 0 7 8 2 3 0 0 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 0 1 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 6 8 0 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 7 . . . . . .
. . . . . . 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 9 0 . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 5 9 0 0 0 0 7 2 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 1 0 0 7 0 0 0 . . . 0 1 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 8 2 3 0 1 0 0 . . . 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 . . . 0 0 0 0 0 8 6 1 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 3 5 0 6 8 0 1 0 . . . 8 0 0 0 0 5 0 7 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 0 4 3 0 9 0 0 8 . . . 0 0 0 4 6 0 0 0 9 . . . . . . . . . . . .

            2...94...   4..2.19..           
            .8.2....6   .5.76.84.           
            .695.....   ....4...7           
            .4...7.8.   ..4.836..           
            ......12.   ...9..4..           
            51.......   89....57.           
      .3...9...16....7...............6.     
      5...6.....8.....3...............2     
      ..74.....4.....2............7.1..     
      ....9634.   1..8..4..   8...3.5..     
      ..25.....   ....65...   .7...6.2.     
      .....25..   .269...7.   ...5.1..7     
..3..............1...............1.5...4....5
.7...2....2......3.....2....5......4...3.641.
59.738...7..................7.............7..
3..1.....   ...4....9   ...819...   1.2...87.
.528.....   .812...4.   ...3.....   .89.....4
14..2....   ...35.2.7   18.....76   .....2..3
...2...................1...1.......9....7....
.2...1.....4.....2...83.....9....2......25...
4....5...1.......5.....9...7.6...3.........8.
      ....3..8.   3.2....8.   ...6.13.7     
      .5..4....   .5.....9.   ....3..8.     
      2.95.7...   .8....2.4   .2..7....     
.6.........3...3.6...4.....5.......6...4....5
...23......8....4.....93...9.....4.....5...6.
....7....4.......8...1...................2...
8..6.....   54.....31   5.3.89...   ....5..19
5.....41.   .....2...   .4...132.   .....458.
.29...6.7   ...534...   1....4...   .....8..4
..4.............5..................2...731.48
.975.8...8......8....3.....1......1....8...9.
6....2...6.2...............8..............3..
      3..5.9...   .6...342.   ..91.....     
      .1.7...8.   ...28....   .....74..     
      ..4.2...7   ..8..9..1   .7823....     
      ..1.4............4.....3.....68..     
      4...............9.....7.....8...7     
      .5...............7....16...4...9.     
            .59....72   .......92           
            ..1..7...   .18......           
            ..823.1..   .5.1...6.           
            1...4....   .....861.           
            .35.68.1.   8....5.7.           
            ..43.9..8   ...46...9           

1413 total cells
352 filled cells [24%]
1061 empty cells

Two zip files below are in same formats as before - the first zip has generator outputs in sudoku lines, spreadsheet paste and raw compact formats, followed by the gattai solution in the same formats. The file names are the same: [gattai-type]-[datetime-generated].[level] with a '.sud' file extension. The second zip files contains pdf files for the gattais.
Attachments
nocorners_sud.zip
gattais text files
(13.33 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
nocorners_pdf.zip
gattais pdf files
(96.14 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
1to9only
 
Posts: 133
Joined: 04 April 2018

Re: the fat ones

Postby m_b_metcalf » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:18 pm

1to9only wrote: There's probably a way to create the harder levels with more consistency than I can at the moment, but I've yet to figure it out!

Unless you want to add more and more logical methods to your existing suite, you will at some stage require a brute-force solver. My samurai solver works basically as follows:

1) Iterate round the five individual puzzles, solving as far as possible with basic techniques until either completion (your samurai) or, if no further progress, go to step 2.

2) Perform an iteration using a brute-force solver that has been especially modified to find all the solutions (if more than one), and that retains the values common to all solutions as a partial solution; if still no completion go back to step 1.

3) In rare cases, a final step is required that resolves an overlapping corner by examining the common candidate values still remaining in such a way as to identify the unique solution.

I have made a minimal version of your samurai (see below). Depending on which logic you're using, it might need brute force (I estimate its Sudoku Explainer rating to be in the range 6 to 8).

The second puzzle is the hardest samurai I know of and requires step 3. It is from ruud. If you can solve that you can solve anything.

HTH,

Mike Metcalf

Code: Select all
5 9 . 6 . . . . .       1 . . . 6 . . 8 7
2 . 3 5 . . . . .       . . 8 . . . . . .
. . . . . . . 7 .       . . . . 4 5 . 1 .
. . 1 3 . . . 8 .       . . . . . 4 . 2 1
. . . . . . . 2 .       6 . 7 . . . 9 . .
. . . . . 2 . . 3       . 3 2 6 . . . . .
. 1 . . 4 7 . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . .
. . 8 . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . 8 9 4 . .
6 . . . 3 . . . . 5 . . . . . 3 . . . . .
            . . . . . . 8 . 2             
            . 6 . . 5 . . 4 .             
            4 . 3 . . . . . .             
. . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . 8
. . 5 3 . . . . . . 9 . . . . 8 . . 6 . .
. . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . 6 . . . 4 .
. . . . . 4 7 3 .       9 . . 7 . . . . .
. . 7 . . . . . 9       . 6 . . . . 1 . 5
4 2 . 5 . . . . .       . 3 . . . 2 . . .
. . . 4 7 . . . .       . 4 . . 3 . . . .
8 . . . 2 . 1 . .       . . . . . 7 2 . 3
. 6 . . 8 . . . 7       . . . . . 1 . . .


Code: Select all
009070080000600020605040000060503000801000007000800904000004000950000000000065000 1   
809000010000040008001062000020500430370080000000006000000000305000603000000070800 2
000000000000010000000060000000000501062005000000090032000400000000001000000302000 3 
600040000000570000207000000000800040073090002006005090000300509100600000080000200 4 
000700040000002090000500003702060000000370000090000350000004006280003000001000500 5 
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m_b_metcalf
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Posts: 9161
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Location: Berlin

Re: the fat ones

Postby 1to9only » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:42 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:Unless you want to add more and more logical methods to your existing suite, you will at some stage require a brute-force solver.

Thanks for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated.

I am happy with the current state of my gattai maker, it started small and just got more ambitious! I agree adding more solving methods will allow more difficult puzzles to be made, but will they still be human solvable? And you mentioned that the target audience for these puzzles has shrunk to nearly nothing, so spending the time to code more solving methods is not productive use of my time. I'll add them as time permits, more for the programming practice really...

I probably won't add a brute-force element to the solver, as I quite like the human-like logic solving and the symmetry, so the puzzles created will always have more givens than necessary. Its main use is to make small gattais that can be printed on 1-2 sheets for personal use, and for some family members and friends who are newspaper level sudoku solvers and they struggle a little with my easy level gattais!!

My solver cannot solve your minimal version of my samurai. LOL! And Ruud's, I'll keep both for later...
1to9only
 
Posts: 133
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Re: gattai difficulty level

Postby enxio27 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:36 pm

1to9only wrote:Hard - cannot be solved by 'Medium' methods, requires other advanced methods (currently naked and hidden triples and quads, and the basic fishes) to finish solving.

For me, that's about perfect for gattai. I do hope you eventually add variants such as sudoku-X, jigsaw, windoku, clueless, etc. to the mix.
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enxio27
 
Posts: 452
Joined: 13 November 2007

Re: cutting corners

Postby enxio27 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:38 pm

1to9only wrote:The Ninja-9 is a Sumo (gattai-13) with the 4 corner sudokus removed, and the Taiken-21 is a Shaolin (gattai-
25) with the 4 corner sudokus removed.


Yay! Thank you for posting these!
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enxio27
 
Posts: 452
Joined: 13 November 2007

Re: Gattais Galore!

Postby enxio27 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:15 am

I just finished your Sumo. A fun puzzle, although it took me much longer than expected. I need to work on paying more attention to eliminations and inter-grid transfers (I print each grid on a separate sheet of paper and copy the eliminations manually from one overlapping grid to the next). I missed a couple on this puzzle, and it took me a while to track them down to finish the puzzle.
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enxio27
 
Posts: 452
Joined: 13 November 2007

Re: the fat ones

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:10 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:The second puzzle is the hardest samurai I know of and requires step 3. It is from ruud. If you can solve that you can solve anything.

This one is also very hard.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

Code: Select all
 . 9 3 . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . 5 9 . . .
 . . . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .
 . 7 . . . . 1 . 8 . . . 8 . . 6 . . . . 4
 . . 6 . . 9 2 . . . . . 4 . . . . 7 . 8 .
 . . 2 . 8 . . 9 1 . . . 9 . . . . . . . 3
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . 5 . . 2
 9 . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . 1 . . 5 .
 . 3 8 . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . 7 . 9 . .
 2 . . 4 . 3 . . . 1 . . . . . . 9 . 2 1 .
 . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . .
 . . . . . . 7 . . . 8 . 4 . 3 . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . .
 2 9 . . 5 . . . . . 1 . . . . 7 . . . . .
 7 . 5 . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 6 . . .
 . 4 . . . . . . 6 . . . . 8 . . . . 2 1 3
 . . . . 8 1 . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . 9 .
 . . 2 . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . 7 . .
 . . . 9 2 . . 4 . . . . . 6 . . . 8 . 7 2
 . . . . . 3 . . . . . . 5 3 . . . . . . .
 . . 6 . 1 . 7 . . . . . . . . 3 9 . . . .

 Number of clues  95

Code: Select all
093078000000005060070000108006009200002080091000000000900000000038000000200403000  TL
000059000000001000800600004400007080900000003010005002000010050000070900000090210  TR
000060000000900000000100000090000067700080403000050000000010000000000000000000000   M
290050000705068000000000000040000006000081000002000090000920040000003000006010700  BL
000700000000001000000526000080000213000060090000000700060008072530000000000390000  BR
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m_b_metcalf
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