December 12, 2015

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December 12, 2015

Postby ArkieTech » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:11 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |..7|...|...|
 |...|6.4|78.|
 |..5|.9.|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |.5.|.8.|..9|
 |7..|3.6|..1|
 |2..|...|.4.|
 |---+---+---|
 |.1.|.6.|9..|
 |.6.|152|...|
 |...|...|5..|
 *-----------*


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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Leren » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:41 am

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 6       2348    7        | 258     123     358      | 134     9       234      |
| 139     239     39       | 6       123     4        | 7       8       5        |
| 1348    2348    5        | 278     9       378      | 134     6       234      |
|--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
|c4-3cD   5       6        | 24b     8       1        | 23      7       9        |
| 7       489     489      | 3       24      6        | 28      5       1        |
| 2       38C     1        | 59      7       59       | 6       4       38B      |
|--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
| 5       1      a348      | 478a    6       378      | 9       2       48A      |
| 489     6       489      | 1       5       2        | 48      3       7        |
|b348     7       2        | 489     34      389      | 5       1       6        |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Kraken Row 7 Digit 4 :

4 r7c3 - 3 r7c3 = r9c1              - 3 r4c1;

4 r7c4 - r4c4 = r4c1                - 3 r4c1;

4 r7c9 - 8 r7c9 = r6c9 - (8=3) r6c2 - 3 r4c1; => - 3 r4c1; stte

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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:56 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 6     2348  7     | 258   123   358   | 134   9     234   |
 | 139   239   39    | 6     123   4     | 7     8     5     |
 | 1348  2348  5     | 278   9     378   | 134   6     234   |
 *-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 4-3   5     6     |B24    8     1     |B23c   7     9     |
 | 7     489   489   | 3     24    6     | 28    5     1     |
 | 2     38    1     | 59    7     59    | 6     4     38b   |
 *-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 5     1    a348   |A478   6     378   | 9     2     48a   |
 | 489   6     489   | 1     5     2     | 48    3     7     |
 |b348   7     2     | 489   34    389   | 5     1     6     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


Kraken 4's row 7 => -3 r4c1 ; stte:

(4-3)r7c3 = r9c3 - 3r4c1
4r7c4 - (4=23)r4c47 - 3r4c1
(4-8)r7c9 = (8-3)r6c9 = r4c7 -3r4c1

Dang! Exactly the same as Leren. :(


OK, a slight variant:

Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 6     2348  7     | 258   123   358   | 134   9     234   |
 | 139   239   39    | 6     123   4     | 7     8     5     |
 | 1348  2348  5     | 278   9     378   | 134   6     234   |
 *-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 |c34    5     6     |b24    8     1     |b23    7     9     |
 | 7     489   489   | 3     24    6     | 28    5     1     |
 | 2     38    1     | 59    7     59    | 6     4    a38    |
 *-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 5     1    e348   |e478   6     378   | 9     2    f4-8   |
 | 489   6     489   | 1     5     2     | 48    3     7     |
 |d348   7     2     | 489   34    389   | 5     1     6     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


(8=3)r6c9 - (3=24)r4c4*7 - (4=3)r4c1 - r9c1 = (3-4)r7c3*4 = 4r7c9 => -8 r7c9 ; stte
Last edited by SteveG48 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Marty R. » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:08 am

Code: Select all
+---------------+-------------+-----------+
| 6    2348 7   | 258 123 358 | 134 9 234 |
| 139  239  39  | 6   123 4   | 7   8 5   |
| 1348 2348 5   | 278 9   378 | 134 6 234 |
+---------------+-------------+-----------+
| 34   5    6   | 24  8   1   | 23  7 9   |
| 7    489  489 | 3   24  6   | 28  5 1   |
| 2    38   1   | 59  7   59  | 6   4 38  |
+---------------+-------------+-----------+
| 5    1    348 | 478 6   378 | 9   2 48  |
| 489  6    489 | 1   5   2   | 48  3 7   |
| 348  7    2   | 489 34  389 | 5   1 6   |
+---------------+-------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

un-Kraken: DP (58-59-89)r169c46, using externals
8r1c2=8r7c46-r7c9=8r6c9=> -8r6c2
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby JC Van Hay » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:19 am

(34)r4c1 -> r9c1=8; stte
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:26 am

Beautiful, Marty! You, too, JC!
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby pjb » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:51 am

Code: Select all
 6       2348    7      | 258    123    358    | 134    9      234   
 139     239     39     | 6      123    4      | 7      8      5     
 1348    2348    5      | 278    9      378    | 134    6      234   
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
a34      5       6      |a24     8      1      | 3-2     7      9     
 7       489     489    | 3      4-2    6      |e28     5      1     
 2       38      1      | 59     7      59     | 6      4      38     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 5       1      c348    | 478    6      378    | 9      2     d48     
 489     6       489    | 1      5      2      |e48     3      7     
b348     7       2      | 489    34     389    | 5      1      6     

(2=3)r4c14 - r9c1 = (3-4)r7c3 = r7c9 - (4=2)r58c7 => -2 r4c7, r5c5; stte
       \
     (4)r7c4

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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:26 pm

JC Van Hay wrote:(34)r4c1 -> r9c1=8; stte

JC, for some reason, I can't see the forest this morning... :?
How, as a one-stepper?

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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Leren » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:49 pm

Hi Steve. The way I saw JC's move was a case of remote pairs (a new case for me, it's now in my solver).

It turns out that the 3 and 4 in r4c1 and r9c5 have opposite parity. One way of seeing this is to note that there are 3 Strong links on 4 connecting these cells.

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 6     2348  7      | 258   123   358    | 134   9     234    |
| 139   239   39     | 6     123   4      | 7     8     5      |
| 1348  2348  5      | 278   9     378    | 134   6     234    |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
|a34    5     6      |b24    8     1      | 23    7     9      |
| 7     489   489    | 3    c24    6      | 28    5     1      |
| 2     38    1      | 59    7     59     | 6     4     38     |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 5     1     348    | 478   6     378    | 9     2     48     |
| 489   6     489    | 1     5     2      | 48    3     7      |
| 8-34  7     2      | 489  d34    389    | 5     1     6      |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

(3=4) r4c1 - r4c4 = r5c5 - (4=3) r9c5; and (3-4) r4c1 = r4c4 - r5c5 = (4-3) r9c5.

So you can remove 3 and 4 from r9c1, which can see both of these cells and this solves the puzzle with singles.

Leren
Last edited by Leren on Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:54 pm

Thanks, Leren, for the helpful feedback! Using your abcd cell path, I, too, first spotted the 4's Kite, and then also the 3's AIC. Those two chains certainly remove the 3 and 4 from r9c1. BUT, that looked like two separate moves to me. Hence, the one-stepper query. So, are these two chains really considered to be a single step?

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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:23 pm

Steve, one way to look at JC's solution is to consider r4c1 a Kraken cell with just two candidates.
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby eleven » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:29 pm

Better call it a pattern (its easy to spot), and it is one (clean&good) step.
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Marty R. » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:34 pm

Leren wrote:Hi Steve. The way I saw JC's move was a case of remote pairs (a new case for me, it's now in my solver).

It turns out that the 3 and 4 in r4c1 and r9c5 have opposite parity. One way of seeing this is to note that there are 3 Strong links on 4 connecting these cells.

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 6     2348  7      | 258   123   358    | 134   9     234    |
| 139   239   39     | 6     123   4      | 7     8     5      |
| 1348  2348  5      | 278   9     378    | 134   6     234    |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
|a34    5     6      |b24    8     1      | 23    7     9      |
| 7     489   489    | 3    c24    6      | 28    5     1      |
| 2     38    1      | 59    7     59     | 6     4     38     |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 5     1     348    | 478   6     378    | 9     2     48     |
| 489   6     489    | 1     5     2      | 48    3     7      |
| 8-34  7     2      | 489  d34    389    | 5     1     6      |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

(3=4) r4c1 - r4c3 = r5c5 - (4=3) r9c5; and (3-4) r4c1 = r4c3 - r5c5 = (4-3) r9c5.

So you can remove 3 and 4 from r9c1, which can see both of these cells and this solves the puzzle with singles.

Leren


Leren, why isn't the first chain (in red) enough? It seems to show opposite polarity for both the 3 and 4, thus rendering the 2nd chain unnecessary. This is the same as classic Remote Pairs, as if r4c4 and r5c5 were both 34 bivalues. Looks like there's a typo, r4c3 rather than r4c4.
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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:55 pm

SteveG48 wrote:Steve, one way to look at JC's solution is to consider r4c1 a Kraken cell with just two candidates.

OK, let's do a Kraken on (34)r4c1. We look for a common result:
Code: Select all
3r4c1 – 3r9c1
 ||
4r4c1 – r4c4 = r5c5 – (4=3)r9c5 – 3r9c1
OK, we got rid of 3r9c1.

We can similarly repeat the Kraken to remove 4r9c1, but that's a second step.
Help?

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Re: December 12, 2015

Postby Marty R. » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:04 pm

I still think it's a one-step Remote Pairs, Kraken not needed.
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