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by **ArkieTech** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:25 am

Code: Select all: *-----------* |.3.|...|8..| |.2.|...|.43| |...|..1|625| |---+---+---| |...|29.|.5.| |..9|...|4..| |.6.|.84|...| |---+---+---| |541|9..|...| |39.|...|.7.| |..6|...|.8.| *-----------*

by **Leren** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:12 am

Code: Select all: *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* | 16 3 B45 | 46 2456 Aa259a | 8 19b 7 | | 16 2 C57 | 8 56 D579 |E19c 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 b25 |c15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 |d15-9 8 149 | *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*

Kraken Cell r1c6:

2 r1c6 - (2=5) r8c6 - r8c7 = (5) r9c7;
||
5 r1c6 - r1c3 = (5-7) r2c3 = (7-9) r2c6 = (9) r2c7;
||
9 r1c6 - r1c8 = (9) r2c7; => - 9 r9c7; stte

Apparently I did not speak with forked antlers yesterday ! Will tomorrow's puzzle be called Dan's 'Dolph ?

Leren

by **ArkieTech** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:09 am

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 *259 | 8 a19 7 | |b16 2 57 | 8 b56 579 | 9-1 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 c25 |c15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------* Death Blossom (1=9)r1c8-----------9r1c6 (1=6)r2c1-(6=5)r2c5-5r1c6 (1=5)r8c7-(5=2)r8c6-2r1c6 => -1r2c7;ste or (1=9)r1c8--9r1c6 (1=5)r2c15-5r1c6 (1=2)r8c76-2r1c6 => -1r2c7;ste

by **SteveG48** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:17 am

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 cf259 | 8 b19 7 | |d16 2 57 | 8 e56 579 |a9-1 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 g25 |h15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

(1)r2c7 - {(9)r2c7 = r1c8 - r1c6}|{(1=6)r2c1 - (6=5)r2c5 - r1c6} = (2)r1c6 - (2=5)r8c6 -(5=1)r8c7 => -1 r2c7 ; stte

by **pjb** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:24 am

Code: Select all: a16 3 45 | 4-6 245-6 f259 | 8 b19 7 1-6 2 57 | 8 g56 579 |c19 4 3 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 ---------------------+----------------------+--------------------- 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 ---------------------+----------------------+--------------------- 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 3 9 8 | 146 12456 e25 |d15 7 14 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 (6=1)r1c1-(1=9)r1c8-(9=1)r2c7-(1=5)r8c7-(5=2)r8c6-(29=5)r1c6-(5=6)r2c5 => -6 r1c45, r2c1; stte | r1c6

Phil

by **JC Van Hay** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:57 am

Another notation for the Kraken Cell r1c6 proving -1r2c7 :

Code: Select all: +-------------+-------------------+-----------------+ | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 (259) | 8 (19) 7 | | (16) 2 57 | 8 (56) 579 | 9-1 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | +-------------+-------------------+-----------------+ | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | +-------------+-------------------+-----------------+ | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 (25) | (15) 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 | +-------------+-------------------+-----------------+

Chain [6] : (1=6)r2c1-(6=5)r2c5-5r1c6=*[(1=9)r1c8-(9=*2)r1c6-(2=5)r8c6-(5=1)r8c7] => 1r2c1=1r1c8=1r8c7 :=> -1r2c7

by **SteveG48** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:53 pm

It looks like all the solutions point in the same direction. The magic is at r1c6.

by **daj95376** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:00 pm

SteveG48 wrote:It looks like all the solutions point in the same direction. The magic is at r1c6.

My solver resorted to SINs in order to crack the puzzle. A SIN is a chain with memory/secondary eliminations that leads to a contradiction, which can often be folded back into the chain. The amount of memory used affects the desirability of a specific SIN solution. Often, a simple SIN can be translated into a Kraken Unit.

For this puzzle, a cursory examination of my solver's SINs show that most, if not all, of them use r1c6 one way or another.

Code: Select all: +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 16 3 d45 | 46 2456 e259 | 8 19 7 | | 16 2 c57 | 8 56 b579 | a19h 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 f25 | g15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ # 44 eliminations remain SIN: 1r2c7 9r2c6 7r2c3 5r1c3 2r1c6 => [r8c67]=5 discontinuous loop w/memory: (1-9)r2c7 = (9*-7)r2c6 = (7-5)r2c3 = (5)r1c3 - (*95=2)r1c6 - (2=5)r8c6 - (5=1)r8c7 - (1)r2c7 -or- Kraken Cell: (259)r1c6 (2)r1c6 - (2=5)r8c6 - (5=1)r8c7 ( -1)r2c7 || (5)r1c6 - (5)r1c3 = (5-7)r2c3 = (7-9)r2c6 = (9-1)r2c7 || (9)r1c6 ( -9)r2c6 = (9-1)r2c7

by **tlanglet** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:57 pm

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 259 | 8 19 7 | | 16 2 57 | 8 56 579 | 19 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 |*146 12456 25 | 15 7 *14 | | 2 7 6 |*134 1345 35 | 159 8 *149 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

I had very little time this morning so I accepted my first solution..............

AUR(14)r89c49 with SIS 6r8c4, 3r9c4, 9c9c9 => r1c4=4
6r8c4-(6=4)r1c4
||
3r9c4-(3=5)r9c6-(5=29)r81c6-(9=164)r1c814
||
9r9c9-(9=1)r6c9-r6c8=r1c8-(1=64)r1c14

The down side of the AUR is that it did not complete the puzzle; a BUG+1 making r8c5=2 is needed to finish the game.

Ted

by **blue** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:05 pm

SteveG48 wrote:It looks like all the solutions point in the same direction. The magic is at r1c6.

Here's something a little different:

Code: Select all: +---------------+--------------------+----------------+ | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 259 | 8 19 7 | | (16) 2 (57) | 8 -5(6) 59(7) | (19) 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | +---------------+--------------------+----------------+ | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 (37) | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | +---------------+--------------------+----------------+ | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 25 | 15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 134(5) (35) | 1(59) 8 149 | +---------------+--------------------+----------------+

Kraken row (5r9)

5r9c5
||
5r9c6 - 3r9c6 = (3-7)r5c6 = 7r2c6 - (7=5)r2c3
||
5r9c7 - 9r9c7 = (9-1)r2c7 = (1-6)r2c1 = 6r2c5

=> -5r2c5; stte

by **Marty R.** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:15 pm

Code: Select all: +---------+---------------+------------+ | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 259 | 8 19 7 | | 16 2 57 | 8 56 579 | 19 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | +---------+---------------+------------+ | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | +---------+---------------+------------+ | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 25 | 15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 | +---------+---------------+------------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

Not 100% sure of the validity, but I saw something similar yesterday.

6r2c5=(6-1)r2c1=1r2c7-(1=6)r2c1-(6=5)r2c5=>r2c5=5

by **Luke** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+---------+---------------+------------+ | 16 3 45 | 46 2456 259 | 8 19 7 | | 16 2 57 | 8 56 579 | 19 4 3 | | 9 8 47 | 347 34 1 | 6 2 5 | +---------+---------------+------------+ | 4 1 3 | 2 9 6 | 7 5 8 | | 8 5 9 | 137 13 37 | 4 6 2 | | 7 6 2 | 5 8 4 | 3 19 19 | +---------+---------------+------------+ | 5 4 1 | 9 7 8 | 2 3 6 | | 3 9 8 | 146 12456 25 | 15 7 14 | | 2 7 6 | 134 1345 35 | 159 8 149 | +---------+---------------+------------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

Not 100% sure of the validity, but I saw something similar yesterday.

6r2c5=(6-1)r2c1=1r2c7-(1=6)r2c1-(6=5)r2c5=>r2c5=5

You have demonstrated that (6)r2c5 and (5) in the same cell cannot both be false, one must be true. Since it's a bivalue cell, that's something you already knew. No elimination. Once basics are done you will have a hard time ever finding an elimination without "leaving the house."

What did you see yesterday?

by **pjb** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:02 pm

Another way to view it is a continuous nice loop with no eliminations.
Phil

by **Marty R.** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:45 pm

What did you see yesterday?

Luke, it was this, which may not be the same, but it looks to me like it's saying that if r7c2 is not 3, then it's <>4=3.

post232280.html#p232280

by **Luke** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:21 am

Marty R wrote:... but it looks to me like it's saying that if r7c2 is not 3, then it's <>4=3.
post232280.html#p232280

Well, there's your problem, you listened to tlanglet :!:

The short answer: You gotta get outta the house more often, man. If your basics are correct, you will never find an elimination by going in circles in a single row, column or box.

The long answer, since I'm stuck here holding purses while the girls Xmas shop:

Ted's conclusion was r7c2<>4, so =3 would follow, sure. But look at what he really proved:

Code: Select all: *-----------------------------------------------------------* | 8 6 149 | 5 2 349 | 13 139 7 | | 3 5 49 | 8 1 7 | 49 2 6 | | 7 14 2 | 6 39 349 | 5 1389 48 | |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------| | 6 9 5 | 23 8 23 | 7 4 1 | | 4 b13 138 | 9 7 6 | 2 c38 5 | | 2 7 38 | 4 5 1 |d38 6 9 | |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------| | 5 a3-4 6 | 237 39 239 |e18 178 f48 | | 1 8 34 | 37 6 5 | 49 79 2 | | 9 2 7 | 1 4 8 | 6 5 3 | *-----------------------------------------------------------*

3r7c2=3r5c2-(3=8)r5c8-r6c7=r7c7-(8=4)r7c9 => r7c2<>4

If you look at only the first and last nodes you'll get all the information needed.

3r7c2=3r5c2-(3=8)r5c8-r6c7=r7c7-(8=4)r7c9
...simply (3)r7c2=(4)r7c9. One must be true, it doesn't matter which one, the conclusion is the same, one contestant is going home: r7c2<>4. You can make it r7c2<>4=3 if you want, some do. That's part of the conclusion, not part of the chain.

You wrote:
6r2c5=(6-1)r2c1=1r2c7-(1=6)r2c1-(6=5)r2c5=>r2c5=5
... simply (6)r2c5=(5)r2c5. One must be true, but you already knew that. 6 doesn't eliminate 5, and 5 doesn't eliminate 6, nothing gets pinched off and ...

OK, they're back with their plunder. Isn't there a bar in this godforsaken mall?

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