The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Ruud]

When you are ready for the real thing, try the Clueless Special that can be found at sudocue.net.

This is a completely new concept. It cannot be found anywhere else on the net or in any publication!

There are 9 sudokus that can help you solve the 3x3 boxes of a 10th sudoku. This 10th sudoku is completely clueless! None of the 9 contributing sudokus can be solved on its own, so prepare for a long ride.

I have constructed 2 of these monsters. The first one requires at least 4 hours to solve. I have not heard of anybody who has solved the second one yet...

Have fun.

Ruud.

[Lardarse]

Bloody hell... I'll try them this week.

[Scott H]

Look interesting. Sort of a two-level variation on a monster samurai.

Does anyone have any of the clueless sudocues in a pasteable format?

[Lindy]

These puzzles are brilliant! They do have a samurai feel to them.

I finished the first one in 5 hours. It's doable without listing possibilities, so is not too difficult. I didn't get very far on the second one without having to write in possibilities and after 4 hours I lost the plot and it went pear shaped. Just as well I printed off extra copies so I can start again.

[Scott H]

Here is the second puzzle in pasteable form:

Code: Select all

4.......6.5..1..4...97.35....2...8...4.....9...3...4....72.63...8..7..6.5.......9
2.......6.4..8..9...76.23....3...7...6.....4...9...1....65.98...8..7..2.3.......7
3.......5.2..5..6...19.63....3...4...7.....8...4...7....76.25...1..3..9.4.......7

6.......5.2..6..9...19.74....3...1...7.....3...5...8....64.89...5..2..7.9.......4
8.......6.5..6..2...28.49....7...6...9.....4...5...3....84.95...6..2..9.9.......4
5.......9.6..2..5...48.32....5...8...4.....7...9...3....67.59...3..6..4.9.......3

6.......7.3..4..2...45.76....2...5...1.....7...3...8....78.42...9..3..4.4.......5
9.......1.6..9..7...28.64....7...1...4.....3...5...2....96.45...1..7..8.5.......7
6.......9.8..4..6...97.64....3...2...5.....8...8...7....54.29...2..9..4.8.......3

I probably spent 4 or 5 hours on it. Can someone provide the first puzzle in pasteable form, please?

Eight of the components and the central clueless section can be solved without hidden pairs, swordfish, or forcing chains. I did use X-wings and coloring.

The upper right component was tough to complete, even after finishing the center clueless grid. I used several length 4-7 forcing chains to crack it.

[Ruud]

When you became addicted to these puzzles, have another look at www.sudocue.net

The 3rd Clueless Special has a nice customization feature.

Will you go green or play it tough

Ruud.

[udosuk]

Clueless Sudoku #1:

Code: Select all

..17.46......8....8.5...4.23.......6.7.....9.6.......44.8...3.9....5......36.95..
..72.53......7....9.2...8.63.......5.9.....8.7.......42.8...5.7....6......95.34..
..86.93......3....4.9...6.76.......2.5.....8.8.......99.7...5.3....5......54.82..
..52.73......5....2.9...6.76.......9.5.....7.3.......88.6...9.3....9......46.81..
..78.65......9....2.6...4.93.......6.6.....7.9.......17.4...1.3....2......94.58..
..85.49......6....6.5...2.44.......8.3.....6.7.......95.6...8.7....8......49.63..
..52.74......8....9.2...8.55.......8.9.....1.6.......21.6...5.4....1......87.56..
..46.28......8....6.5...7.22.......1.3.....4.5.......97.8...9.6....5......23.85..
..85.49......7....9.5...6.45.......9.2.....5.8.......33.2...5.6....1......48.23..

You're welcomed...

[Ruud]

I just published #4 in the series.

Please let me now if you like this type of monster sudoku.

Ruud.

[udosuk]

I like this type of puzzles! But one suggestion: could you also provide "pastable forms" of previous puzzles (like the ones above) alongside the .gif pics you're showing now? Missed #3...

Hopefully they won't cost too much space! Typing them out is not hard, just very tedious.

[Ruud]

As a teaser, I will post a Clueless Special exclusive to this forum. If you need to refer to it, call it #4b.

The mission:

This puzzle has 9 constituent Sudokus. The central 3x3 boxes in each of these 9 Sudokus (colored blue), in the configuration of the constituent puzzles, form a 10th Sudoku, which is completely clueless. None of the constituent puzzles can be solved independently, you need to feed information back and forth using the 10 puzzles to solve the Clueless Special as a whole.

This is the Clueless Special #4b:



In pasteable format:

Code: Select all

090020070500107009002000400050000060300000008040000010008000600600209007070060050
020040010400907003009000700080000060900000005070000040006000500300608001040020070
020040070800207005005000100040000020500000008060000030003000900600402007090080050
070030020600802007004000900090000040100000009020000080002000100500104006010020050
090010050500208009007000100070000030200000008030000070003000400400607005020080090
020050010500402009007000200040000050600000002050000090008000500700501004030080060
070060050300901007005000900080000030200000001060000070001000200700608005030010080
030070050100305009009000700070000040200000007090000010006000200500104003040080090
080060040400208006003000800050000030700000009020000080008000400100803007090050010

Missed #3...

This is the version including the optional green clues.

Code: Select all

070805020900020006000030000600000007093000860700000004000060000200010009010902050
070208090100050006000030000900000003051000860600000001000040000500080004010306020
030204060700050001000030000100000003027000510900000007000080000300010006040703020
080506040600090007000040000900000004036000910700000003000080000200050001090102050
050807020800020003000060000300000005098000410600000009000040000700080004020509030
040503080100090004000020000300000001067000230800000009000050000700040008090802040
060409070900070002000010000100000008049000260200000005000090000700080006050307040
030605090900030006000010000500000004023000980700000001000090000100020008060703020
020905070900070006000080000400000007075000480800000003000060000200040008060108050

As usual, I'd like to hear your responses. Enjoy!

Ruud.

[Mel-o-rama]

These are interesting. I did #4 first, and that took a few days. I made a mistake the first time and had to start over. Then I did #1 yesterday - good Sunday activity. Again, I made a mistake and it took hours to complete.

#1 was pretty straightforward though, and relatively "easy" to solve. #4 wasn't so easy. I actually had to use some trial and error when I got stuck. At one point, I used a totally new solving technique I think is worth mentioning.

The first T&E I tried involved working within just one of the individual members. I considered two mutually exclusive paths. One led to a contradiction, so I kept the other path. With the new clues, I was able to solve some more in the other members. That's the old technique of using T&E.

Then I got stuck again. The second time I used T&E, I again took one of the members (it may have been the "clueless" member itself) and I tried two mutually exclusive paths. To my dismay, neither path led to a contradiction and I could go no further in either path without considering the other members. Before I threw out my work, I realized that there were similarities in the two paths. Even though my two original guesses disagreed, there were a few cells that had the same exact answer in common between the two. So, I took the intersection of the two paths, and that gave me enough information to complete the entire puzzle without any more T&E.

Has anyone ever suggested trying out 2 paths and keeping the intersection? In a normal 9x9 sudoku, one of the 2 paths (assuming this is not an inferior sudoku) will lead to a contradiction, so this may not really come up. But being a member sudoku in a bigger puzzle, this kind of thing could arise all the time. Interesting.

[motris]

I set aside this evening to finally try this variant and I must say that I love it. It seems to work much better than even large (9/13/+) samurai in having you use row/column information to get partial information in the clueless boxes. It took me 80 minutes for puzzle 1, and I'll likely try some of your others in coming weeks when I have time. Super variation ruud.

Thomas Snyder

[djape]

Ruud,

I liked your invention and decided to have a go at creating one Clueless puzzle myself. I like to "X" any puzzles I make and so I did with this one too.

I gave credit to you for creating this variation and posted a link to your site.

I've also prepared something new with this concept and will post it soon. Maybe some readers can guess what it is.

Cheers,

dj.

[Ruud]

I liked your invention and decided to have a go at creating one Clueless puzzle myself. I like to "X" any puzzles I make and so I did with this one too.

I gave credit to you for creating this variation and posted a link to your site.

Thanks! I hope your visitors like the format.

I've also prepared something new with this concept and will post it soon. Maybe some readers can guess what it is.

You're killing me! I can't wait to see it.

I also posted a 5th Clueless on www.sudocue.net/

For those who want to play with this one, try to find the 100+ line-box interactions I put into this little monster. And there is even more to be found. Fortunately, the weekend is near

Have fun!

Ruud.

[RW]

Hi Ruud

Superb version, I really like the way you have to look for information from the other grids. I would have one small request though. As this is clearly a puzzle that needs to be done on paper, could you please also supply a more printer-friendly version. Printing the GIFs with a 20th century LaserJet gets really grainy and tough on the eyes.

Also, if you put in optional clues (like in nr 3), please supply a printable grid without them as well. Nr 3 with the optional clues was far too easy. I actually solved it one 9x9 grid at a time, only occassionally looking for information supplied by the givens in other puzzles. After solving four grids like this I could complete the clueless puzzle without solving any extra numbers in the remaining 5 puzzles. Working on nr 4 now, seems to be a lot more challenging, thank you for that.

Regards
RW