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Postby ravel » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:10 am

StrmCkr,

the 123's dont form a deadly pattern:
E.g. these 3 numbers outside would fix it to be unique:
Code: Select all
123 .  123 |  3                1 . 2  | 3
.   .  .                       . . .
.   .  .                       . . .
----------           =>        ------
123 .  123                     2 . 3
.   .  .                       . . .
.   .  .                       . . .
-----------                    ------
3   .  1                       3 . 1


But this one is deadly:
Code: Select all
123 123  123
.   .    .
.   .    .
------------
123 123  123
.   .    .
.   .    .
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Postby StrmCkr » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:48 am

and what if your rectangle looked like this ?

Code: Select all
123 .  123 |  3               
234 .  423 . |                     
 .     .       .  |
----------           =>       
 234 .  234                                 
.   .  .                     
.   .  .                       
-----------                             
34 . 134 .


same thing except the rectangles must be removed first
then can be solved quickly and yeilds the same results

goes like so.
Code: Select all
123 .  123 |  3               
234* .  423* . |                     
 .     .       .  |
----------           =>       
 234# .  234#                                 
.   .  .                     
.   .  .                       
-----------                             
34# . 134*% .

reduces to this.


123 .  123 |  3               
234* .  423* . |                     
 .     .       .  |
----------           =>       
 234# .  234#                                 
.   .  .                     
.   .  .                       
-----------                             
34# . 1 .


then from here

to this.

1 .  2 |  3               
34* .  43* . |                     
 .     .       .  |
----------           =>       
 2# .  34#                                 
.   .  .                     
.   .  .                       
-----------                             
34# . 1 .
Last edited by StrmCkr on Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby re'born » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:59 am

StrmCkr wrote:
Code: Select all
.---------------.---------------.-------------------.
| 236  236  4   | 238*  7    238* |  9     1     5    |
| 9    5    7   | 34   6    1   |  2     48    348  |
| 8    23   1   | 9    5    234 |  34    6     7    |
:---------------+---------------+-------------------:
| 5    236  8   | 234  1    7   |  46    9     246  |
| 24   7    9   | 5    24   6   | 18    3    18   |
| 2346 1    36  | 2348* 9    238* |  5     7     246  |
:---------------+---------------+-------------------:
| 7    4    36  | 16   28   5   |  136   28    9    |
| 16   89   2   | 7    3    49  | 1846  5   1846|
| 136  89   5   | 16   248  249 |  7     248   136  |
'---------------'---------------'-------------------'


i see three rectangles same space here(*'s).

first one is 23
second is 83
third is 82

all of them can't exisit in same space.
identifies

r6c4 = 4


As ravel said, your analysis is flawed. The ultimate test that proves this is that in the solution, r6c4=8.

Edit: By the way, great puzzle wapati. I tend to look forward to working your puzzles each morning. Please keep them coming.
Last edited by re'born on Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby StrmCkr » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:06 am

yip it is

i copied from the right puzzle initally..
then got distracted and started writhing off another puzzle i had open.

and from that wrong puzzle i got the wrong solution when i posted that garbled mess.

so im way wrong there.


...im once again way too tired to be posting anything ..

um... so yeah im

deleting all that garbage.

"pls delete all that from memory some how or another"
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Postby RW » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:35 pm

StrmCkr, it appears to me that the technique you are trying to invent is very similar to the Layered BUG-lite. Maybe you should read that thread to see if you get some clarification on the subject.

RW
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Postby StrmCkr » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:22 pm

good read yes its very similar to that (almost identical)

but uses im using overlapping rectangles with 2 differnt patterns instead.

it somet pattern ive noticed that pops up alot.

but its hidden beneth a lot of extra candidates (as in this case)

http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?t=5288

where i cant show it directly due to the extra candates in each cell.
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Postby wapati » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:15 am

SS handles this one well, I don't often check (btw).

It has a jellyfish but is not all that hard.

Code: Select all
. . .|. 9 1|2 . .
. . 8|2 . .|. 4 .
. 1 .|. . .|3 . 6
-----+-----+-----
. 2 .|1 6 .|. . 3
4 . .|8 . 2|. . 9
1 . .|. 3 4|. 2 .
-----+-----+-----
2 . 4|. . .|. 3 .
. 5 .|. . 8|6 . .
. . 1|9 2 .|. . .
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Postby wapati » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:10 am

I like this one.

Code: Select all
8 4 5 | 6 . 1 | . . 9
6 . 7 | . . . | . 4 .
2 3 . | . . . | . . .
---------------------
4 . . | 7 2 . | . . 6
. . . | 9 . 6 | . . .
9 . . | . 4 8 | . . 7
---------------------
. . . | . . . | . 7 2
. 2 . | . . . | 3 . 4
7 . . | 4 . 2 | 6 8 1
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Postby wapati » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:42 am

This one can be short, if you hit the right patterns in the best order.

It will typically be quite hard, with a swordfish.
There is an avoidable finned Jelly.

Code: Select all
. 8 5 | . . 9 | 3 . .
2 . 3 | . 5 . | . . .
9 1 . | . . . | . . 5
---------------------
. . . | 9 2 . | . . 8
. 6 . | 1 . 4 | . 9 .
8 . . | . 7 6 | . . .
---------------------
7 . . | . . . | . 4 2
. . . | . 4 . | 8 . 1
. . 4 | 8 . . | 9 7 .
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Postby wapati » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:46 am

This is quite cranky.

Code: Select all
4 5 . | . . . | . . .
2 . 3 | 9 . 5 | 6 . .
. 8 . | . . 1 | . 2 .
---------------------
. 9 . | . 1 2 | 3 4 .
. . . | 3 . 4 | . . .
. 3 4 | 5 9 . | . 6 .
---------------------
. 4 . | 8 . . | . 5 .
. . 5 | 1 . 9 | 4 . 3
. . . | . . . | . 1 2
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Postby wapati » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:29 am

This one varies a lot depending on the solver.

Code: Select all
2 . .|5 3 .|. . .
. . 9|. . 1|. . .
. 5 3|. . 2|8 . .
-----+-----+-----
4 . .|9 . .|6 7 .
6 . .|. . .|. . 4
. 7 1|. . 6|. . 3
-----+-----+-----
. . 7|2 . .|1 9 .
. . .|1 . .|3 . .
. . .|. 8 3|. . 6
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Postby wapati » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:01 am

No big fish, lots of work!

Code: Select all
. . . | . . . | . . .
2 . 4 | . 3 . | 7 . 8
9 . . | 7 . 2 | . . 3
---------------------
. 4 2 | . . . | 6 7 .
. 9 . | 5 . 7 | . 8 .
. 5 . | . . . | . 4 .
---------------------
. . 3 | 8 . 4 | 2 . .
4 . . | 1 . 3 | . . 6
. . . | . 5 . | . . .
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Postby daj95376 » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:42 am

wapati wrote:This is quite cranky.

Code: Select all
4 5 . | . . . | . . .
2 . 3 | 9 . 5 | 6 . .
. 8 . | . . 1 | . 2 .
---------------------
. 9 . | . 1 2 | 3 4 .
. . . | 3 . 4 | . . .
. 3 4 | 5 9 . | . 6 .
---------------------
. 4 . | 8 . . | . 5 .
. . 5 | 1 . 9 | 4 . 3
. . . | . . . | . 1 2

Now, I'm sure there's an elegant fish to explain the following Templates elimination in <7>. However, I'm not able to find elegant fish, so I have to work a little harder. Here is ... a little harder.

Code: Select all
# SSTS
# XYZ-Wing => [r8c2]<>7 => [r59c2]=7
# [r5c2]=7                           => [r5c5]<>7
# [r9c2]=7 => 2-String Kite [r8b9c7] => [r5c5]<>7
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 4      5      67     | 2      678    678    | 1      3      9      |
 | 2      1      3      | 9      4      5      | 6      78     78     |
 | 679    8      679    | 67     3      1      | 5      2      4      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 5678   9      678    | 67     1      2      | 3      4      57     |
 | 1567  *267    12     | 3      68-7   4      |@78     9      1578   |
 | 17     3      4      | 5      9      78     | 2      6      178    |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 1379   4      12     | 8      27     37     |@79     5      6      |
 | 678    26     5      | 1     @267    9      | 4     @78     3      |
 | 36789 *67     6789   | 4      5      367    | 789    1      2      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
# followed by:
# Empty Rectangle [c4b1c3] for 6|7 => [r4c3]<>6|7 => [r4c3]=8
# SSTS completes puzzle
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Postby ronk » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:27 pm

[edit: deleted meaningless post since I missed the absence of <7> in r8c2]
Last edited by ronk on Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ravel » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:55 pm

Ron, there is no 7 in r8c2.
Code: Select all
 .  .  7  | .  7  7  | .  .  .
 .  .  .  | .  .  .  | .  7  7
 7  .  7  | 7  .  .  | .  .  .
----------+----------+---------
 7  .  7  | 7  .  .  | .  .  7
 7  7  .  | . -7  .  | 7  .  7
 7  .  .  | .  .  7  | .  .  7
----------+----------+---------
 7  .  .  | .  7  7  | 7  .  .
 7  .  .  | .  7  .  | .  7  .
 7  7  7  | .  .  7  | 7  .  .
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