The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **m_b_metcalf** » Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:26 pm

L was tricky.

Code: Select all: . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . 9 1 . . . . . . . 4 7 . . . . . . . 8 5 9 3 4 7 . . . . . 7 8 1 6 . . not too hard . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . 5 3 . . . . . . . 4 6 . . . . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . . . . . 6 5 7 2 9 4 . . . . . 5 6 8 3 . . very hard

by **Leren** » Wed Mar 01, 2023 7:47 pm

No much to add to the titles of the puzzles, which are accurate descriptions of how they play out.

Leren

by **Hajime** » Wed Mar 01, 2023 9:42 pm

Leren, I see your point.
But now I have all up and running. Looks a bit like the Patterns Game.
My results

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: ..........34.......79.......93.......18.......45.......87.......567329.....5687.. ED=9.6/1.5/1.5 ..........84.......71.......42.......18.......53.......97.......357421.....8937.. ED=9.4/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......71.......43.......19.......68.......27.......357291.....5687.. ED=9.3/1.5/1.5 ..........74.......21.......93.......18.......45.......87.......562378.....5486.. ED=9.3/1.2/1.2 ..........89.......34.......53.......72.......48.......97.......657294.....6583.. ED=9.2/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......51.......32.......49.......18.......97.......657298.....6589.. ED=9.2/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657294.....5683.. ED=9.1/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......34.......51.......42.......78.......97.......637598.....3189.. ED=9.1/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657294.....6583.. ED=9.0/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......34.......51.......42.......78.......97.......637298.....6189.. ED=9.0/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......59.......43.......78.......97.......657294.....6589.. ED=8.9/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......24.......53.......49.......78.......97.......657298.....6583.. ED=8.9/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......34.......53.......79.......48.......97.......657294.....6583.. ED=8.8/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......14.......73.......52.......48.......27.......651278.....6387.. ED=8.8/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......71.......43.......19.......68.......97.......347281.....3697.. ED=8.7/1.5/1.5 ..........56.......78.......83.......19.......62.......47.......354671.....9536.. ED=8.7/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......91.......49.......13.......68.......57.......367251.....3987.. ED=8.6/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......24.......51.......79.......38.......95.......637298.....6583.. ED=8.6/1.2/1.2 ..........89.......34.......13.......72.......48.......97.......652794.....6583.. ED=8.5/1.5/1.5 ..........82.......35.......51.......49.......28.......97.......637198.....3586.. ED=8.5/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......24.......51.......79.......48.......97.......637192.....6587.. ED=8.4/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......39.......51.......42.......78.......97.......647298.....6187.. ED=8.4/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......34.......53.......42.......78.......97.......657294.....6583.. ED=8.3/1.5/1.5 ..........12.......39.......43.......56.......78.......97.......657294.....5683.. ED=8.3/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......34.......59.......43.......18.......97.......657294.....6589.. ED=8.2/1.5/1.5 ..........81.......73.......49.......32.......68.......27.......967248.....9687.. ED=8.2/1.2/1.2 ..........34.......71.......63.......12.......45.......87.......567821.....5638.. ED=7.9/1.5/1.5 ..........94.......71.......43.......59.......62.......27.......357216.....5632.. ED=7.9/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......74.......12.......59.......48.......27.......657241.....6587.. ED=7.8/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......51.......43.......69.......78.......27.......357498.....2687.. ED=7.8/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......41.......63.......19.......58.......27.......357294.....5682.. ED=7.7/1.5/1.5 ..........82.......34.......53.......29.......78.......97.......657294.....6582.. ED=7.7/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......34.......53.......49.......78.......27.......657294.....6583.. ED=7.6/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......19.......51.......42.......38.......97.......637295.....6583.. ED=7.6/1.2/1.2 ..........84.......71.......43.......19.......28.......97.......357291.....5387.. ED=7.5/1.5/1.5 ..........89.......21.......43.......92.......15.......38.......567821.....5396.. ED=7.5/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......53.......46.......98.......87.......657294.....6587.. ED=7.4/1.5/1.5 ..........84.......71.......63.......45.......27.......98.......367829.....3695.. ED=7.4/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......34.......53.......42.......78.......97.......652194.....6783.. ED=7.3/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......34.......52.......49.......78.......27.......637298.....6583.. ED=7.3/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657293.....6584.. ED=7.2/1.5/1.5 ..........84.......36.......51.......49.......78.......97.......637294.....6543.. ED=7.2/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......14.......53.......49.......78.......97.......657294.....6587.. ED=7.1/1.5/1.5 ..........82.......34.......53.......46.......18.......97.......657394.....6583.. ED=7.1/1.2/1.2 ..........61.......92.......73.......19.......25.......34.......569478.....5321.. ED=7.0/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......74.......62.......13.......48.......27.......357216.....5683.. ED=7.0/1.2/1.2 ..........96.......71.......53.......64.......18.......27.......359476.....8237.. ED=6.9/1.5/1.5 ..........64.......82.......73.......19.......25.......37.......563498.....5729.. ED=6.9/1.2/1.2 ..........32.......74.......16.......59.......48.......27.......657294.....6587.. ED=6.8/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......74.......21.......49.......38.......97.......637291.....6189.. ED=6.8/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......14.......21.......49.......78.......97.......637294.....6187.. ED=6.7/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......51.......32.......49.......78.......27.......657293.....6589.. ED=6.7/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......34.......13.......49.......78.......97.......657294.....6583.. ED=6.6/1.5/1.5 ..........89.......34.......51.......46.......78.......97.......637298.....3189.. ED=6.6/1.2/1.2 ..........53.......71.......42.......19.......68.......27.......367291.....3687.. ED=6.5/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......51.......32.......49.......18.......97.......657298.....6389.. ED=6.5/1.2/1.2 ..........83.......54.......32.......46.......78.......97.......657291.....3587.. ED=5.7/1.5/1.5 ..........31.......79.......62.......13.......58.......97.......859472.....8237.. ED=5.7/1.2/1.2 ..........81.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657294.....6587.. ED=5.6/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......34.......51.......42.......78.......97.......637291.....6183.. ED=5.6/1.2/1.2 ..........83.......71.......52.......19.......68.......27.......357498.....2687.. ED=4.7/1.2/1.2 ..........84.......71.......63.......19.......52.......27.......967415.....9237.. ED=4.6/1.5/1.5 ..........61.......85.......73.......49.......28.......37.......567493.....6329.. ED=4.6/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657192.....5683.. ED=4.5/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......29.......52.......43.......78.......97.......657298.....6583.. ED=4.5/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......34.......51.......49.......78.......97.......657294.....6587.. ED=4.4/1.5/1.5 ..........84.......76.......43.......19.......62.......27.......357296.....1637.. ED=4.4/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......34.......53.......42.......18.......97.......657293.....6584.. ED=4.2/1.5/1.5 ..........14.......39.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657294.....5643.. ED=4.2/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......73.......49.......12.......68.......27.......357296.....3687.. ED=4.0/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......34.......53.......72.......48.......97.......657293.....6589.. ED=3.6/1.5/1.5 ..........84.......52.......26.......49.......18.......97.......657198.....6589.. ED=3.6/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......71.......49.......15.......68.......97.......367241.....3987.. ED=3.4/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......71.......48.......19.......63.......27.......357296.....5687.. ED=3.4/1.2/1.2 ..........84.......71.......43.......12.......65.......97.......367451.....3297.. ED=3.2/1.5/1.5 ..........46.......79.......93.......51.......68.......24.......357468.....2531.. ED=3.2/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......53.......49.......78.......97.......657294.....6587.. ED=3.0/1.5/1.5 ..........81.......34.......53.......29.......48.......97.......657394.....6583.. ED=3.0/1.2/1.2 ..........89.......34.......53.......42.......18.......97.......657294.....6587.. ED=2.9/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......34.......51.......42.......78.......97.......637291.....6189.. ED=2.9/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......34.......59.......42.......78.......97.......657194.....6582.. ED=2.8/1.5/1.5 ..........12.......34.......93.......46.......78.......87.......657294.....4583.. ED=2.8/1.2/1.2 ..........12.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657392.....5689.. ED=2.6/1.5/1.5 ..........12.......34.......59.......43.......78.......87.......657294.....6485.. ED=2.6/1.2/1.2 ..........82.......71.......46.......19.......58.......67.......357291.....3687.. ED=2.5/1.5/1.5 ..........89.......74.......51.......42.......38.......97.......637291.....6189.. ED=2.5/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......71.......13.......59.......48.......97.......657293.....6587.. ED=2.3/1.5/1.5 ..........86.......21.......13.......49.......78.......97.......657298.....6589.. ED=2.3/1.2/1.2 ..........86.......51.......32.......49.......18.......97.......657291.....6587.. ED=2.0/1.5/1.5 ..........96.......34.......51.......49.......78.......87.......637291.....6183.. ED=2.0/1.2/1.2 ..........85.......34.......51.......49.......78.......17.......637295.....6183.. ED=1.5/1.5/1.5 ..........16.......24.......51.......79.......48.......87.......637295.....6583.. ED=1.5/1.2/1.2

by **Leren** » Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:27 pm

Hi Hajime, It looks like the highest rated one of yours I could solve without forcing chains was this one :

Code: Select all: ..........86.......51.......43.......69.......78.......27.......357498.....2687.. ED=7.8/1.2/1.2

Leren

by **m_b_metcalf** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:45 am

Hajime wrote: Looks a bit like the Patterns Game.

No surprise there: I'm using modified PG programs to produce these puzzles!

M.

by **Hajime** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:36 am

Leren wrote:... I could solve without forcing chains ... :
Code: Select all
..........86.......51.......43.......69.......78.......27.......357498.....2687.. ED=7.8/1.2/1.2

Can you explain how you solved the ED=7.8 puzzle without forcing chains?

The first I can is

Code: Select all: ..........82.......34.......53.......46.......78.......97.......657293.....6584.. ED=7.2/1.5/1.5

SukakuExplainer needs still 2 Forcing Chains, but SiSeSuSo solves it with a XY-chain and a WXYZ-wing:

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: [1,1] r1c2=1 Naked Single [1,2] r1c3=9 Naked Single [1,3] r8c8=1 Naked Single [1,4] r8c9=8 Naked Single [1,5] r9c2=2 Naked Single [1,6] r9c3=1 Naked Single [2,7] r8c1=4 Naked Single [2,8] r9c1=3 Naked Single [3,9] r5c5=9 Naked Single [3,10] r7c1=8 Naked Single [3,11] r9c9=7 Naked Single [4,12] r4c4=2 Naked Single [4,13] r9c8=9 Naked Single [5,14] r6c6=3 Hidden Single in sudokuX\ [5,15] r3c7=8 Hidden Single in sudokuX/ [6,16] r1c9=2 Hidden Single in sudokuX/ [7,17] r3c6=2 Hidden Single in row 3 [7,18] r7c8=2 Hidden Single in row 7 [8,18] Naked/Hidden Pairs,Triplets,Quads | NPair (14)c6r47 => (-4)r1c6 (-14)r2c6 (-1)r5c6 [9,18] Naked/Hidden Pairs,Triplets,Quads | NTriple (567)r1c167 => (-5)r1c4 (-67)r1c5 (-567)r1c8 [10,18] Pointing, Claiming | (6)b5,c5 => (-6)r2c5 (-6)r3c5 | (1)/,b5 => (-1)r4c5 (-1)r5c4 (-1)r6c5 [11,18] Generalized Intersection | (5)\,r1,c7 => (-5)r1c7 | (6)\,r1,c7 => (-6)r1c7 | (5)/,r2,c4 => (-5)r2c4 | (5)/,r6,c8 => (-5)r6c8 [12,19] r1c7=7 Naked Single [13,19] Naked/Hidden Pairs,Triplets,Quads | NQuad (1469)r4c1679 => (-46)r4c5 (-46)r4c8 | NQuin (13478)c5r12347 => (-4)r6c5 | NTriple (578)b5e246 => (-5)r6c4 | NTriple (146)r6c458 => (-1)r6c1 (-16)r6c7 (-146)r6c9 | 1 (6)r6c5 => (-6)r6c8 | NPair (46)r6c58 => (-4)r6c4 | NSept (1234569)b6e1346789 => (-35)r5c8 | NSext (124569)b6e134789 => (-15)r5c9 | NQuad (3478)b6e2568 => (-4)r4c9 | NQuin (34578)c8r12456 => (-5)r3c8 | NQuin (34678)c8r13456 => (-4)r2c8 | NQuin (45678)c8r23456 => (-4)r1c8 | NQuin (13569)c9r34567 => (-13569)r2c9 | NPair (15)/26 => (-1)r4c6 [14,20] r1c8=3 Naked Single [14,21] r2c8=5 Naked Single [14,22] r2c9=4 Naked Single [14,23] r3c8=6 Naked Single [14,24] r4c6=4 Naked Single [14,25] r5c9=3 Naked Single [14,26] r6c4=1 Naked Single [14,27] r6c5=6 Naked Single [14,28] r6c8=4 Naked Single [14,29] r7c6=1 Naked Single [15,29] Naked/Hidden Pairs,Triplets,Quads | NPair (67)r2c16 => (-7)r2c5 | NTriple (578)r5c468 => (-5)r5c7 [16,29] WXYZ Wing Type B on {1259} (-9)b6c7 => (-9)r4c7 [17,29] XY-chain [6] (1)(1=9)r3c9-(9=5)r3c4-(5=6)r1c6-(6=5)r1c1-(5=6)r7c7-(6=1)r4c7 => (-1)r4c9 (-1)r2c7 stte

P.S. SiSeSuSo has no Forcing Chains implemented, not even Nishio. In stead it uses Forcing Nets and Nested Forcing Nets.

by **Leren** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:13 pm

Hajime wrote: Can you explain how you solved the ED=7.8 puzzle without forcing chains?

Wow, that's a bit of an ask, but here goes. Basics get you to here:

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 13 1356 | 1356 136 8 | | 3 8 6 | 159 279 1257 | 1259 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 |*3689 2789 367 |*26 3679 *2679 | |---------+-----------------+----------------------| | 125 4 3 |*69 78 *126 | 15 16789 *25679 | | 12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 178 27 | | 125 7 8 |F16 29 4 | 12359-6 139-6 *2569 | |---------+-----------------+----------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *--------------------------------------------------*

Franken SwordFish in 6 in Columns 49 + Anti Diagonal, Rows 346. Endofin at r6c4 => - 6 r6c78

Code: Select all: *------------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 13 1356 | 1356 136 8 | | 3 8 6 | 159 279 1257 | 1259 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 | 3689 2789 367 | 26 3679 2679 | |----------+-----------------+-------------------| |a125 4 3 | 69 78 d126 |b15 16789 25679 | |c12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 178 27 | | 25-1 7 8 |e16 29 4 | 12359 139 2569 | |----------+-----------------+-------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *------------------------------------------------*

XYZ Wing - Base Cell r4c1 {125} Pincer Cells r4c7 {15} and r5c1 {12}. 1 in r4c7 transported to r6c4 via r4c6 => - 1 r6c1

Code: Select all: *------------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 13 1356 | 1356 136 8 | | 3 8 6 | 159 279 1257 | 1259 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 | 3689 2789 367 | 26 3679 2679 | |---------+-----------------+--------------------| | 125 4 3 | 69 78 b126 |a15 16789 25679 | | 12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 178 27 | | 25 7 8 |c16 29 4 | 12359 139 d269-5 | |---------+-----------------+--------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *------------------------------------------------*

H2 Wing: (5=1) r4c7 - r4c6 = (1-6) r6c4 = (6) r6c9 => - 5 r6c9;

Code: Select all: *-------------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 13 1356 | 1356 136 8 | | 3 8 6 | 159 279 1257 | 1259 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 | 3689 2789 367 | 26 3679 2679 | |---------+------------------+--------------------| | 125 4 3 | 69 78 b126 | 15 16789 25679 | | 12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 178 27 | | 25 7 8 |c16 a29 4 | 12359 139 d69-2 | |---------+------------------+--------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *-------------------------------------------------*

H3 Wing: (2=9) r6c5 - (9=6) r4c4 - r6c4 = (6) r6c9 => - 2 r6c9;

Code: Select all: *-------------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 d13 1356 |e1356 136 8 | | 3 8 6 |c159 279 c1257 |b1259 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 | 3689 2789 367 | 26 3679 2679 | |---------+------------------+--------------------| | 125 4 3 | 69 78 126 |a15 16789 25679 | | 12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 178 27 | | 25 7 8 | 16 29 4 |f239-15 139 69 | |---------+------------------+--------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *-------------------------------------------------*

(5-1) r4c7 - r2c7 = r2c46 - (1=3) r1c5 - r1c7 = (3) r6c7 => - 15 r6c7

A Grouped Skyscraper (2) r6c7 + 6c5 / r3c5 + r3c79 => - 2 r2c7.

Code: Select all: *------------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 a13 f56-13 |e1356 b136 8 | | 3 8 6 | 159 279 1257 | 159 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 | 3689 2789 367 | 26 3679 2679 | |--------+-------------------+-------------------| | 12 4 3 | 69 78 126 |d15 c16789 25679 | | 12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 c178 27 | | 5 7 8 | 16 29 4 | 239 c139 69 | |--------+-------------------+-------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *------------------------------------------------*

(3=1) r1c5 - r1c8 = r456c8 - (1=5) r4c7 - r1c7 = (5) r1c6 => - 13 r1c6;

Code: Select all: *----------------------------------------------* | 7 9 2 | 4 13 b56 | 1356 136 8 | | 3 8 6 |a159 279 1257 | 159 4 2579 | | 4 5 1 | 389-6 2789 367 | 26 3679 2679 | |--------+------------------+------------------| | 12 4 3 |c69 78 12-6 | 15 16789 25679 | | 12 6 9 | 38 5 37 | 4 178 27 | | 5 7 8 |d16 29 4 | 239 139 69 | |--------+------------------+------------------| | 8 2 7 | 135 13 135 | 69 69 4 | | 6 3 5 | 7 4 9 | 8 2 1 | | 9 1 4 | 2 6 8 | 7 5 3 | *----------------------------------------------*

WXY-Z Wing C2 {159-6}; Pivot Cell r2c4; Pincer Cells r1c6, r4c4 & r6c4 => - 6 r3c4, r4c6

A Naked Pair (12) r4c16 and singles to finish off. Phew ! Hopefully no typos in all that.

The 7.2 puzzle only required 2 non basic moves, a W Wing and an AIC.

Leren

by **Hajime** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:07 pm

Thanks Leren, I did not realize that it could be so complicated. Beyond my skills.

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