A Pure Swordfish Collection

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby Pat » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:24 pm

tarek wrote:
Pat wrote:
tarek wrote:
How many SFs with singles do you need?
How many SFs with the rest of the techniques do you need?

to be pure IMO the 1st answer should be <= to the second answer


it will never be less



I posted a puzzle which failed point 7.2. before I modified it,
I think that puzzle needs less (More red herrings)


possibly it has fewer Swordfish available;
but it needs at least as many.
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Postby tarek » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:42 pm

Ah yes, the total available was less (that's why it failed the old rule)....

Will keep an eye out for these exceptional cases

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Postby tarek » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:38 pm

[Edit have since changed, so ignore this post]

Here the sum of all what has been posted.

Pat is advocating an Extra-Lenient category (only rules 1,4 & 5 apply).
Therfore I've collated the list as follows:

#Puzzle#ID#PatP/F#TarekP/F(Cat/Point)#Tarek_SF>=
2...9.....6...31....12...7...7....2.3.......8.8....4...4...86....27...1.....5...4#tarek001#P#P(L)#2
7...4.....5...13....62...7...7....2.9.......8.3....5...6...31....27...6.....5...4#tarek002#P#P(L)#2
9...6.....4...18....72...9...9....2.5.......3.6....4...7...81....29...7.....4...6#tarek003#P#P(L)#2
1...7.....4...31....89...6...6....9.2.......3.1....4...8...42....96...8.....5...6#tarek004#P#P(L)#2
8...6.....5...39....98...1...1....8.3.......7.7....4...4...73....81...9.....2...5#tarek005#P#P(L)#2
5...4.....4...13....97...5...5....7.2.......6.1....8...9...84....75...9.....1...8#tarek006#P#P(L)#2
....1.....2...34....56...7...71...6.8.......9.1...72...5...43....67...5.....2....#TTHsieh001#F#F(4)#0
....1.....2...34....56...7...73...6.8.......3.4...82...9...28....67...3.....9....#TTHsieh002#P#P(L)#1
5....36....9.7.....4.2....8..8.....2.3.....5.6.....1..3....6.4.....5.3....78....9#tarek007#P#P(L)#1
3....71....8.5.....2.8....6..6.....4.7.....3.1.....9..7....1.2.....3.7....56....8#tarek008#P#P(L)#1
3....94....6.5.....1.8....2..1.....8.8.....1.4.....7..5....4.3.....3.9....81....6#tarek009#P#P(L)#1
1....96....5.8.....8.2....7..4.....2.9.....6.6.....1..3....6.1.....5.9....27....5#tarek010#P#P(L)#1
9....85....4.3.....6.1....3..6.....1.1.....6.5.....2..7....5.9.....9.8....16....4#tarek011#P#P(L)#1
3....94....6.5.....2.8....1..1.....8.9.....3.4.....7..9....4.2.....3.9....81....6#tarek012#P#P(L)#1
6....18....3.5.....1.4....5..9.....4.2.....6.1.....7..7....8.2.....3.1....45....3#tarek013#P#P(L)#1
9....82....6.2.....5.3....1..4.....3.7.....5.2.....1..8....3.7.....9.8....35....6#tarek014#P#P(L)#1
4....61....8.9.....6.5....9..2.....5.7.....6.6.....3..3....1.7.....8.6....59....8#tarek015#P#P(L)#1
4....68....7.3.....1.5....9..4.....5.6.....4.8.....2..6....8.1.....4.6....39....7#tarek016#P#P(L)#1
4....69....5.3.....6.7....2..2.....7.5.....4.8.....1..1....7.6.....4.8....72....9#tarek017#P#P(L)#1
2....31....4.1.....6.8....4..7.....8.9.....2.1.....3..6....1.3.....2.5....84....9#tarek018#P#P(L)#1
7....64....5.2.....8.9....2..2.....8.9.....7.4.....6..3....4.1.....6.3....82....9#tarek019#P#P(L)#1
9....42....7.6.....3.1....6..5.....1.8.....9.3.....4..4....2.8.....7.3....16....7#tarek020#P#P(L)#1
5....61....9.8.....3.9....7..4.....8.9.....5.1.....3..6....1.3.....2.6....84....9#tarek021#P#P(L)#1
...324.....6...3...9.....5.2...9...66..4.3..14...5...8.2.....8...7...4.....712...#tarek022#P#P(L)#1
...528.....7...9...4.....3.9...1...85..3.6..72...4...1.9.....8...2...5.....869...#tarek023#P#P(L)#1
...197.....9...2...7.....8.9...1...57..5.2..86...3...4.5.....3...2...6.....875...#tarek024#P#P(L)#1
...345.....5...2...6.....7.2...6...75..4.1..99...2...1.2.....4...1...6.....896...#tarek025#P#P(L)#1
...562.....5...8...7.....1.8...7...12..6.9..44...8...9.8.....6...9...7.....347...#tarek026#P#P(L)#1
...629.....6...3...9.....1.9...5...24..9.8..77...4...3.1.....6...5...8.....261...#tarek027#P#P(L)#1
...742.....4...9...1.....3.3...8...52..6.9..39...3...1.3.....4...2...8.....816...#tarek028#P#P(L)#1
..123......4........5...632...7.2..87...4...11..3.9...523...9........5......618..#TTHsieh003#P#P(L)#1
1.....6.4.2..7..5.3...........14.....7..58.9....7.9...........3.5..9..2.4.6.....1#Eioru001#F#F(2)#0
9..4..7...6..3..5...1..8..42..8..1...3..4..7...7..9..55..6..2...2..8..9...6..1..3#tso001#P#F(3)#0
6....39....4.5.....8.2....7..5.....2.9.....6.3.....1..1....9.4.....1.3....25....8#tarek029#P#F(7.1)#0
7....29....8.1.....5.4....6..1.....4.4.....3.2.....5..5....3.9.....7.2....46....1#tarek030#P#F(3)#0

PatP/F: Pat's Extra Lenient (P: Pass F: Fail)
TarekP/F: Tarek's Categories (P: Pass F: Fail)
Cat: L:Lenient R:Rigorous
Point: Tarek's Categories reason for failure (Rule Point)
Tarek_SF>=: Tarek's Categories number of swordfish AT LEAST NEEDED to solve.


tarek

[Edit have since changed, so ignore this post]
Last edited by tarek on Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: "esthetic" rules

Postby Pat » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:36 pm

hey tarek, i notice some of the puzzles failed rule 3 [ F(3) ] -- in my opinion, the "esthetic" rules are the least important -- i'd like to convince you to test them last -- would you indulge me in this too ??

Code: Select all
[ 2-3. "esthetic" rules -- moved to the end ]

///

8. Symmetric (I-VII)
9. Minimal

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36-37 -- taken from Morgoth (2007.Mar.26)

Postby Pat » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:46 pm

in the Topic "I Need Practice with X-Wing and Swordfish",
Morgoth (2007.Mar.26) posted a set of 10 Swordfish puzzles -- and 2 of them do qualify as pure Swordfish puzzles
( puzzles 4-5 in the Morgoth list )

    36,5.3.....9.4...5.1.8.1.7.3.4.3.1...2.4...3.6.7.......8.7.9.....8...4.....3...5....,25, ,Morgoth (2007.Mar.26)
    37,..1.7.....6...9.2.4.......3.1.8.2.9.......5...9...5.8...2.1.6.....2.7.5.3.8......,23, ,Morgoth (2007.Mar.26)
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Re: re: "esthetic" rules

Postby tarek » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:59 pm

Pat wrote:hey tarek, i notice some of the puzzles failed rule 3 [ F(3) ] -- in my opinion, the "esthetic" rules are the least important -- i'd like to convince you to test them last -- would you indulge me in this too ??

Code: Select all
[ 2-3. "esthetic" rules -- moved to the end ]

///

8. Symmetric (I-VII)
9. Minimal


That is a good idea....That shouldn't be a problem.....

I'll test....collate then update:D

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Postby tarek » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:08 pm

[Edit: Rules have been updatet (Yet again), Please ignore this post]

I've changed the rules as per Pat's suggestion above.

Checking puzzles goes in sequence through the rules reporting the 1st error encountered. If no errors were encountered then it passes the category specified.

The rules have been re-organised so as to satisfy Pat's rules. (Rules 1-3 in the current rule list).

Anything that Fails rules 4-7 or that PASSES all rules should be considered in Pat's list.


#Puzzle#ID#TarekP/F(Cat/Point)#Tarek_SF>=
2...9.....6...31....12...7...7....2.3.......8.8....4...4...86....27...1.....5...4#tarek001#P(L)#2
7...4.....5...13....62...7...7....2.9.......8.3....5...6...31....27...6.....5...4#tarek002#P(L)#2
9...6.....4...18....72...9...9....2.5.......3.6....4...7...81....29...7.....4...6#tarek003#P(L)#2
1...7.....4...31....89...6...6....9.2.......3.1....4...8...42....96...8.....5...6#tarek004#P(L)#2
8...6.....5...39....98...1...1....8.3.......7.7....4...4...73....81...9.....2...5#tarek005#P(L)#2
5...4.....4...13....97...5...5....7.2.......6.1....8...9...84....75...9.....1...8#tarek006#P(L)#2
....1.....2...34....56...7...71...6.8.......9.1...72...5...43....67...5.....2....#TTHsieh001#F(2)#0
....1.....2...34....56...7...73...6.8.......3.4...82...9...28....67...3.....9....#TTHsieh002#P(L)#1
5....36....9.7.....4.2....8..8.....2.3.....5.6.....1..3....6.4.....5.3....78....9#tarek007#P(L)#1
3....71....8.5.....2.8....6..6.....4.7.....3.1.....9..7....1.2.....3.7....56....8#tarek008#P(L)#1
3....94....6.5.....1.8....2..1.....8.8.....1.4.....7..5....4.3.....3.9....81....6#tarek009#P(L)#1
1....96....5.8.....8.2....7..4.....2.9.....6.6.....1..3....6.1.....5.9....27....5#tarek010#P(L)#1
9....85....4.3.....6.1....3..6.....1.1.....6.5.....2..7....5.9.....9.8....16....4#tarek011#P(L)#1
3....94....6.5.....2.8....1..1.....8.9.....3.4.....7..9....4.2.....3.9....81....6#tarek012#P(L)#1
6....18....3.5.....1.4....5..9.....4.2.....6.1.....7..7....8.2.....3.1....45....3#tarek013#P(L)#1
9....82....6.2.....5.3....1..4.....3.7.....5.2.....1..8....3.7.....9.8....35....6#tarek014#P(L)#1
4....61....8.9.....6.5....9..2.....5.7.....6.6.....3..3....1.7.....8.6....59....8#tarek015#P(L)#1
4....68....7.3.....1.5....9..4.....5.6.....4.8.....2..6....8.1.....4.6....39....7#tarek016#P(L)#1
4....69....5.3.....6.7....2..2.....7.5.....4.8.....1..1....7.6.....4.8....72....9#tarek017#P(L)#1
2....31....4.1.....6.8....4..7.....8.9.....2.1.....3..6....1.3.....2.5....84....9#tarek018#P(L)#1
7....64....5.2.....8.9....2..2.....8.9.....7.4.....6..3....4.1.....6.3....82....9#tarek019#P(L)#1
9....42....7.6.....3.1....6..5.....1.8.....9.3.....4..4....2.8.....7.3....16....7#tarek020#P(L)#1
5....61....9.8.....3.9....7..4.....8.9.....5.1.....3..6....1.3.....2.6....84....9#tarek021#P(L)#1
...324.....6...3...9.....5.2...9...66..4.3..14...5...8.2.....8...7...4.....712...#tarek022#P(L)#1
...528.....7...9...4.....3.9...1...85..3.6..72...4...1.9.....8...2...5.....869...#tarek023#P(L)#1
...197.....9...2...7.....8.9...1...57..5.2..86...3...4.5.....3...2...6.....875...#tarek024#P(L)#1
...345.....5...2...6.....7.2...6...75..4.1..99...2...1.2.....4...1...6.....896...#tarek025#P(L)#1
...562.....5...8...7.....1.8...7...12..6.9..44...8...9.8.....6...9...7.....347...#tarek026#P(L)#1
...629.....6...3...9.....1.9...5...24..9.8..77...4...3.1.....6...5...8.....261...#tarek027#P(L)#1
...742.....4...9...1.....3.3...8...52..6.9..39...3...1.3.....4...2...8.....816...#tarek028#P(L)#1
..123......4........5...632...7.2..87...4...11..3.9...523...9........5......618..#TTHsieh003#P(L)#1
1.....6.4.2..7..5.3...........14.....7..58.9....7.9...........3.5..9..2.4.6.....1#Eioru001#F(2)#0
9..4..7...6..3..5...1..8..42..8..1...3..4..7...7..9..55..6..2...2..8..9...6..1..3#tso001#F(7)#1
6....39....4.5.....8.2....7..5.....2.9.....6.3.....1..1....9.4.....1.3....25....8#tarek029#F(5.1)#0
7....29....8.1.....5.4....6..1.....4.4.....3.2.....5..5....3.9.....7.2....46....1#tarek030#F(5.1)#0
5.3.....9.4...5.1.8.1.7.3.4.3.1...2.4...3.6.7.......8.7.9.....8...4.....3...5....#Morgoth001#F(6)#1
..1.7.....6...9.2.4.......3.1.8.2.9.......5...9...5.8...2.1.6.....2.7.5.3.8......#Morgoth002#F(5.2)#0

TarekP/F: Tarek's Categories (P: Pass F: Fail)
Cat: L:Lenient R:Rigorous
Point: Tarek's Categories reason for failure (Rule Point)
Tarek_SF>=: Number of swordfish AT LEAST NEEDED to solve.

tarek

[Edit: Rules have been updatet (Yet again), Please ignore this post]
Last edited by tarek on Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tarek » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:50 pm

As the process of rating is electronically done, I wouldn't mind if anyone DUMPS entries in this thread to check....

The best way to dump puzzles would be
Code: Select all
81-character_line_puzzle,Poster(No other identifier)

Example:
5.3.....9.4...5.1.8.1.7.3.4.3.1...2.4...3.6.7.......8.7.9.....8...4.....3...5....,Morgoth
..1.7.....6...9.2.4.......3.1.8.2.9.......5...9...5.8...2.1.6.....2.7.5.3.8......,Morgoth


Eache puzzle would then geat an ID as follws
Code: Select all
Poster+chronological_order_of_submitted_puzzle

Example:
5.3.....9.4...5.1.8.1.7.3.4.3.1...2.4...3.6.7.......8.7.9.....8...4.....3...5....,Morgoth001
..1.7.....6...9.2.4.......3.1.8.2.9.......5...9...5.8...2.1.6.....2.7.5.3.8......,Morgoth002


Any future reference to a puzzle in this thread would be:
Code: Select all
SPF_PSFC_ID

Example:
SPF_PSFC_Morgoth001
SPF_PSFC_Morgoth002


tarek
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Postby tarek » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:46 pm

Another thought........

Just to increase the use of the ranking list...

I would propose to change the order of the rules (YET AGAIN) swapping rule the CURRENT rule 2 with rule 3......

Therefore...... any puzzle that passes rule 2 then it would be a puzzle that needs a swordfish to solve (regrardless of being pure"under any category")........so the ranking list would have SOMETHING for EVERYONE.

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Postby tarek » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:04 pm

The final (hopefully) update to the set of rules will hopefully look like this:
Code: Select all
Rules:
1. Valid vanilla 9*9 sudoku
2. NEEDS a Swordfish to solve after applying the following set of techniques:
   2.1. Singles (Hidden/Naked)
   2.2. Box-Line/Line-Box interactions
   2.3. Subsets (doubles,triples,quads) (Hidden/Naked)
   2.4. X-Wing
3. Solved using the following set of techniques:
   3.1. Singles (Hidden/Naked)
   3.2. Swordfish (SF)
4. Swordfish needed (Point 2) >= Swordfish needed (Point 3), achieved electronically as:
   4.1. batches of SF needed (Pont 2) >= batches of SF needed (Point 3)
   4.2. (If 4.1. result is "=") Total Possible SF (Point 2) >= Total Possible SF (Point 3)
5. Symmetric (I-VII)
6. Minimal
7. NEEDS a Swordfish to solve after applying the following set of techniques:
   7.1. Singles (Hidden/Naked)
   7.2. Box-Line/Line-Box interactions
   7.3. Subsets (doubles,triples,quads) (Hidden/Naked)
   7.4. X-Wing
   7.5. Finned X-Wing (incl. Sashimi)
   7.6. Simple Colouring
   7.7. XYZ-Wing
   7.8. XY-Wing
   7.9. Uniqueness (1-4)
   7.10. BUG+1
--Checking puzzles will be processed sequentially through the rules above
--Checking will stop at Point of failure
--Failing any of rules (1-6): Label the puzzle as "Failed" displayed with the failure Point.
--Passing Rules (1-6): Label the puzzle as "PASS" under the "Lenient" category.
--Passing Rules (1-7): Label the puzzle as "PASS" under the "Rigorous" category.



tarek
Last edited by tarek on Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tarek » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:01 am

droid42 on the programmers forums wrote:..5...2..32...6....4..8..1.51.26...8..9.5.4..2...49.51.8..7..2....3...64..3...5..


tarek

[Edit: I posted the wrong puzzle earlier, thanx Pat]
Last edited by tarek on Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tarek » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:06 am

I have updated the rules to satisfy hopefully a wider audience.

each puzzle has a score attached to it. All the info should be in the head post.

The score interpretation (also found in the head post) is:
Score = 1 ==> Invalid puzzle
Score = 2 ==> Requires other than a Swordfish to solve
Score > 2 ==> Requires a Swordfish to solve
Score > 3 ==> Pure Swordfish (Pat's Extra Lenient criteria)
Score > 4 ==> Pure Swordfish (Tarek's Lenient criteria but with Symmetry & Minimality not obligatory)
Score > 5 ==> Pure Swordfish (Tarek's Lenient criteria with Minimality not obligatory)
Score > 6 ==> Pure Swordfish (Tarek's Lenient criteria)
Score > 7 ==> Pure Swordfish (Tarek's Rigorous criteria)

The current Score sheet is (v5.0):

Puzzle#ID#Score#Tarek_SF>=
2...9.....6...31....12...7...7....2.3.......8.8....4...4...86....27...1.....5...4#tarek-001#8#2
7...4.....5...13....62...7...7....2.9.......8.3....5...6...31....27...6.....5...4#tarek-002#8#2
9...6.....4...18....72...9...9....2.5.......3.6....4...7...81....29...7.....4...6#tarek-003#8#2
1...7.....4...31....89...6...6....9.2.......3.1....4...8...42....96...8.....5...6#tarek-004#8#2
8...6.....5...39....98...1...1....8.3.......7.7....4...4...73....81...9.....2...5#tarek-005#8#2
5...4.....4...13....97...5...5....7.2.......6.1....8...9...84....75...9.....1...8#tarek-006#8#2
....1.....2...34....56...7...71...6.8.......9.1...72...5...43....67...5.....2....#TTHsieh-001#3#0
....1.....2...34....56...7...73...6.8.......3.4...82...9...28....67...3.....9....#TTHsieh-002#8#1
5....36....9.7.....4.2....8..8.....2.3.....5.6.....1..3....6.4.....5.3....78....9#tarek-007#8#1
3....71....8.5.....2.8....6..6.....4.7.....3.1.....9..7....1.2.....3.7....56....8#tarek-008#8#1
3....94....6.5.....1.8....2..1.....8.8.....1.4.....7..5....4.3.....3.9....81....6#tarek-009#8#1
1....96....5.8.....8.2....7..4.....2.9.....6.6.....1..3....6.1.....5.9....27....5#tarek-010#8#1
9....85....4.3.....6.1....3..6.....1.1.....6.5.....2..7....5.9.....9.8....16....4#tarek-011#8#1
3....94....6.5.....2.8....1..1.....8.9.....3.4.....7..9....4.2.....3.9....81....6#tarek-012#8#1
6....18....3.5.....1.4....5..9.....4.2.....6.1.....7..7....8.2.....3.1....45....3#tarek-013#8#1
9....82....6.2.....5.3....1..4.....3.7.....5.2.....1..8....3.7.....9.8....35....6#tarek-014#8#1
4....61....8.9.....6.5....9..2.....5.7.....6.6.....3..3....1.7.....8.6....59....8#tarek-015#8#1
4....68....7.3.....1.5....9..4.....5.6.....4.8.....2..6....8.1.....4.6....39....7#tarek-016#8#1
4....69....5.3.....6.7....2..2.....7.5.....4.8.....1..1....7.6.....4.8....72....9#tarek-017#8#1
2....31....4.1.....6.8....4..7.....8.9.....2.1.....3..6....1.3.....2.5....84....9#tarek-018#8#1
7....64....5.2.....8.9....2..2.....8.9.....7.4.....6..3....4.1.....6.3....82....9#tarek-019#8#1
9....42....7.6.....3.1....6..5.....1.8.....9.3.....4..4....2.8.....7.3....16....7#tarek-020#8#1
5....61....9.8.....3.9....7..4.....8.9.....5.1.....3..6....1.3.....2.6....84....9#tarek-021#8#1
...324.....6...3...9.....5.2...9...66..4.3..14...5...8.2.....8...7...4.....712...#tarek-022#7#1
...528.....7...9...4.....3.9...1...85..3.6..72...4...1.9.....8...2...5.....869...#tarek-023#7#1
...197.....9...2...7.....8.9...1...57..5.2..86...3...4.5.....3...2...6.....875...#tarek-024#7#1
...345.....5...2...6.....7.2...6...75..4.1..99...2...1.2.....4...1...6.....896...#tarek-025#8#1
...562.....5...8...7.....1.8...7...12..6.9..44...8...9.8.....6...9...7.....347...#tarek-026#8#1
...629.....6...3...9.....1.9...5...24..9.8..77...4...3.1.....6...5...8.....261...#tarek-027#8#1
...742.....4...9...1.....3.3...8...52..6.9..39...3...1.3.....4...2...8.....816...#tarek-028#7#1
..123......4........5...632...7.2..87...4...11..3.9...523...9........5......618..#TTHsieh-003#7#1
1.....6.4.2..7..5.3...........14.....7..58.9....7.9...........3.5..9..2.4.6.....1#Eioru-001#3#0
9..4..7...6..3..5...1..8..42..8..1...3..4..7...7..9..55..6..2...2..8..9...6..1..3#tso-001#6#1
6....39....4.5.....8.2....7..5.....2.9.....6.3.....1..1....9.4.....1.3....25....8#tarek-029#4.1#0
7....29....8.1.....5.4....6..1.....4.4.....3.2.....5..5....3.9.....7.2....46....1#tarek-030#4.1#0
5.3.....9.4...5.1.8.1.7.3.4.3.1...2.4...3.6.7.......8.7.9.....8...4.....3...5....#Morgoth-001#5#1
..1.7.....6...9.2.4.......3.1.8.2.9.......5...9...5.8...2.1.6.....2.7.5.3.8......#Morgoth-002#4.2#0
..5...2..32...6....4..8..1.51.26...8..9.5.4..2...49.51.8..7..2....3...64..3...5..#droid42-001#6#1

Tarek_SF>=: Number of swordfish AT LEAST NEEDED to solve.


tarek
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droid42 (2005.Aug.7) -- 29 clues

Postby Pat » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:20 pm

tarek wrote:
droid42 on the Programmers forum wrote:1....6.8.45....2....92.......57...9..6..9314.93..1..573....5.6...19.........21..4



somehow i'm not finding that one
-- perhaps you can give the link


droid42 (2005.Aug.7) wrote:
    ..5...2..32...6....4..8..1.51.26...8..9.5.4..2...49.51.8..7..2....3...64..3...5..
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Postby tarek » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:55 pm

Thanx Pat,

indeed it was the puzzle you mention. I made the correction above.

The score sheet had the correct puzzle anyway.

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Postby Pat » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:05 pm

yes, but
    1....6.8.45....2....92.......57...9..6..9314.93..1..573....5.6...19.........21..4
is another pure Swordfish puzzle for the list
-- whatever its source.
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