The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **daj95376** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:08 pm

Well, I've heard about 333 Swordfish and 4444 Jellyfish, but examples seem to be scarce. How about a new challenge? Provide examples of these fish.

The original puzzle must be provided with PM. Bonus points will be given if a puzzle can be solved without a technique name starting with Almost or ending in Chain -- except XY-Chain. (i.e., the simpler the better!) Okay?

Since I hate filling in initial Naked/Hidden Singles in puzzles, non-minimal puzzles with these values already supplied will be warmly accepted as the *original puzzle*!!!

BTW, the first person to supply a puzzle with an example of both types of fish will win a special prize: The admiration and envy of everyone else in this thread!

by **Mike Barker** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:52 pm

Danny, an Orthodox Christmas present for you.

Code: Select all: Column Swordfish: r189c34|r189c9 => r1c15<>3,r8c7<>3,r9c5<>3 +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 59-3 1569 139* | 3579* 59-3 8 | 2 4 1367* | | 2 59 4 | 1 3579 6 | 357 57 8 | | 358 1568 7 | 2 35 4 | 1356 156 9 | +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 58 3 2 | 569 1569 159 | 6789 6789 4 | | 4 58 19 | 569 2 7 | 1689 3 16 | | 7 19 6 | 4 8 3 | 19 2 5 | +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 39 4 5 | 8 1367 19 | 13679 1679 2 | | 1 7 389* | 3569* 4 2 | 5689-3 5689 36* | | 6 2 389* | 3579* 159-3 159 | 4 1589 137* | +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ . . . | . . . | 2 4 . . . . | 1 . 6 | . . 8 . . . | 2 . . | . . 9 ------+-------+------ . 3 2 | . . . | . . . 4 . . | . . 7 | . 3 . . . 6 | . 8 . | . . 5 ------+-------+------ . . 5 | 8 . . | . . 2 1 7 . | . 4 . | . . . 6 . . | . . . | 4 . .

by **daj95376** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:21 pm

Mike Barker wrote:Danny, an Orthodox Christmas present for you.

Thank You Mike for a great present and a wonderful contribution to this thread!!! A beautiful dual Swordfish in <3> -- 233 in rows and 333 in columns. I also appreciate that the solution for the original puzzle has the Swordfish as the most complicated technique. Fantastic!

by **wapati** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:17 am

Mike, you nailed it.

daj, this is perfect for your conditions.

Edited to add: daj, 3x3 twice means no eliminations.

by **udosuk** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:33 am

wapati wrote:Edited to add: daj, 3x3 twice means no eliminations.

How about this:

Code: Select all: +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 593 1569 139* | 3579* 593 8 | 2 4 1367* | | 23# 59 4 | 1 3579# 6 | 357# 57 8 | | 358# 1568 7 | 2 35# 4 | 1356# 156 9 | +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 58 3 2 | 569 1569 159 | 6789 6789 4 | | 4 58 19 | 569 2 7 | 1689 3 16 | | 7 19 6 | 4 8 3 | 19 2 5 | +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 39# 4 5 | 8 1367# 19 | 13679# 1679 2 | | 1 7 389* | 3569* 4 2 | 56893 5689 36* | | 6 2 389* | 3579* 1593 159 | 4 1589 137* | +------------------+-------------------+---------------------+

We have two 333 swordfish and there're plenty of eliminations to make...

by **Pat** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:25 am

Nicolas Juillerat [ Sudoku Explainer ] wrote:
a "maximal" jellyfish, with 16 cells

[ 21 clues ]
Code: Select all
. . . | . . . | . . . . . 8 | . 3 . | 6 . . . 1 . | 5 . 9 | . 4 . -------+-------+------ . 4 . | . . . | . 1 . 5 . . | . 2 . | . . 8 . 7 . | . . . | . 3 . -------+-------+------ . 5 . | 1 . 4 | . 9 . . . 3 | . 6 . | 7 . . . . . | . . . | . . .

by **udosuk** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:35 am

Thanks for the reference, Pat...

Here is the PM grid after SSTS:

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 479 #239 5 |#24678 14 #12678 |-1239 #278 -12379 | | 479 #29 8 |#247 3 #127 | 6 #257 -12579 | |*236 1 *267 | 5 78 9 |*238 4 *23 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| |*2368 4 *269 | 36789 59 35678 |*259 1 *25679 | | 5 36 19 | 3479 2 137 | 49 67 8 | |*268 7 *1269 | 4689 14 1568 |*2459 3 *2569 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| |*26 5 *267 | 1 78 4 |*238 9 *236 | | 1 #289 3 |#289 6 #258 | 7 #258 4 | | 79 #2689 4 |#23789 59 #23578 |-125 #2568 -125 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

Two 4444 jellyfish, 5 eliminations... How nice!

by **daj95376** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:31 pm

Thanks udosuk and Pat for the great contributions!!!

by **udosuk** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:26 am

The biggest contributions from me are adding a redundant candidate in Mike Barker's grid and running through Nicolas Juillerat's grid through Simple Sudoku... I wouldn't call them "great"...

Mike Barker & Nicolas Juillerat are the true heroes here (assuming they are the original creators of those puzzles)...

by **Mike Barker** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:05 am

Here's another 333 swordfish for your enjoyment

.

Code: Select all: .3.....5...2...8.....4.7.133....2....4.79...5..9.8.7....83.........786.26....5.8. Column Swordfish: r246c24|r246c8 => r2c9<>6,r4c3<>6,r6c69<>6 +----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+ | 1479 3 1467 | 8 126 169 | 249 5 4679 | | 14579 15679* 2 | 1569* 3 19-6 | 8 4679* 479-6 | | 59 8 56 | 4 256 7 | 29 1 3 | +----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+ | 3 1567* 157-6 | 156* 145-6 2 | 149 469* 8 | | 8 4 16 | 7 9 136 | 13 2 5 | | 125 1256* 9 | 156* 8 134-6 | 7 346* 14-6 | +----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+ | 12479 1279 8 | 3 146 1469 | 5 479 1479 | | 1459 159 1345 | 19 7 8 | 6 349 2 | | 6 179 1347 | 2 14 5 | 1349 8 1479 | +----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+

by **daj95376** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:28 am

Thanks Mike,

Full Swordfish and Jellyfish appear to be difficult to locate. I modified my puzzle generator to try and generate them. I now have many regular Swordfish and Jellyfish to share, but I only managed to generate three 333 Swordfish. I'll add them to the thread soon.

Regards, Danny

by **daj95376** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:48 pm

Code: Select all: .3.26.1....2.78...8......4..4.7..5.22.......73.7..1.6..6......4...65.7....8.37.2. # 333 Swordfish r148\c136 *-----------------------------------------------------------* |*59 3 *459 | 2 6 *459 | 1 7 8 | | 1456 15 2 | 134 7 8 | 369 59 356 | | 8 7 156-9 | 139 19 35-9 | 2 4 356 | |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------| |*169 4 *169 | 7 8 *369 | 5 13 2 | | 2 159 156-9 | 39 4 36-9 | 8 13 7 | | 3 8 7 | 5 2 1 | 4 6 9 | |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------| | 7 6 135-9 | 8 19 2 | 39 59 4 | |*19 2 *1349 | 6 5 *49 | 7 8 13 | | 145-9 159 8 | 149 3 7 | 69 2 156 | *-----------------------------------------------------------*

by **daj95376** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:52 pm

Code: Select all: .4..1..5..8..69.2.5.24.....2.....7...6..9..8...4.....2.....79.5.9.65..7..2..4..1. # 333 Swordfish c248\r467 *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 69 4 69 | 7 1 2 | 38 5 38 | | 13 8 13 | 5 6 9 | 4 2 7 | | 5 7 2 | 4 38 38 | 16 69 169 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 2 *135 89 |*138 8-3 456 | 7 *3469 1469-3 | | 13 6 7 | 2 9 45 | 135 8 134 | | 89 *135 4 |*138 7 56 | 156-3 *369 2 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 468 *13 168-3 |*38 2 7 | 9 *34 5 | | 48 9 38 | 6 5 1 | 2 7 348 | | 7 2 5 | 9 4 38 | 368 1 368 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

by **daj95376** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:55 pm

Code: Select all: 2....84..69..2...5...3..9..4....5..3.3..4..8.5..7....6..2..3...3...5..78..98....4 # 333 Swordfish c158\r379 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* | 2 17 3 | 5 9 8 | 4 6 17 | | 6 9 14 | 14 2 7 | 8 3 5 | |*178 478-1 5 | 3 *16 46-1 | 9 *12 27-1 | |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------| | 4 126 16 | 12 8 5 | 7 9 3 | | 9 3 7 | 126 4 16 | 5 8 12 | | 5 12 8 | 7 3 9 | 12 4 6 | |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------| |*178 45678-1 2 | 46-1 *167 3 | 6-1 *15 9 | | 3 146 146 | 9 5 1246 | 126 7 8 | |*17 567-1 9 | 8 *167 26-1 | 3 *125 4 | *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

by **ronk** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:48 pm

Danny, Mike and Pat, thanks for the very nice examples.

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

333/4444 Fish

333/4444 Fish

a "maximal" jellyfish, with 16 cells