333/4444 Fish

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

333/4444 Fish

Postby daj95376 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:08 pm

Well, I've heard about 333 Swordfish and 4444 Jellyfish, but examples seem to be scarce. How about a new challenge? Provide examples of these fish.

The original puzzle must be provided with PM. Bonus points will be given if a puzzle can be solved without a technique name starting with Almost or ending in Chain -- except XY-Chain. (i.e., the simpler the better!) Okay?

Since I hate filling in initial Naked/Hidden Singles in puzzles, non-minimal puzzles with these values already supplied will be warmly accepted as the *original puzzle*!!!

BTW, the first person to supply a puzzle with an example of both types of fish will win a special prize: The admiration and envy of everyone else in this thread!
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Postby Mike Barker » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:52 pm

Danny, an Orthodox Christmas present for you.
Code: Select all
Column Swordfish: r189c34|r189c9 => r1c15<>3,r8c7<>3,r9c5<>3
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+
| 59-3  1569  139* | 3579*  59-3    8  |      2     4  1367* |
|    2    59    4  |    1   3579    6  |    357    57     8  |
|  358  1568    7  |    2     35    4  |   1356   156     9  |
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+
|   58     3    2  |  569   1569  159  |   6789  6789     4  |
|    4    58   19  |  569      2    7  |   1689     3    16  |
|    7    19    6  |    4      8    3  |     19     2     5  |
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+
|   39     4    5  |    8   1367   19  |  13679  1679     2  |
|    1     7  389* | 3569*     4    2  | 5689-3  5689    36* |
|    6     2  389* | 3579* 159-3  159  |      4  1589   137* |
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+

 . . . | . . . | 2 4 .
 . . . | 1 . 6 | . . 8
 . . . | 2 . . | . . 9
 ------+-------+------
 . 3 2 | . . . | . . .
 4 . . | . . 7 | . 3 .
 . . 6 | . 8 . | . . 5
 ------+-------+------
 . . 5 | 8 . . | . . 2
 1 7 . | . 4 . | . . .
 6 . . | . . . | 4 . .
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Postby daj95376 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:21 pm

Mike Barker wrote:Danny, an Orthodox Christmas present for you.

Thank You Mike for a great present and a wonderful contribution to this thread!!! A beautiful dual Swordfish in <3> -- 233 in rows and 333 in columns. I also appreciate that the solution for the original puzzle has the Swordfish as the most complicated technique. Fantastic!
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Postby wapati » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:17 am

Mike, you nailed it.

daj, this is perfect for your conditions.


Edited to add: daj, 3x3 twice means no eliminations.
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Postby udosuk » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:33 am

wapati wrote:Edited to add: daj, 3x3 twice means no eliminations.

How about this:
Code: Select all
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+
|  593  1569  139* | 3579*   593    8  |      2     4  1367* |
|   23#   59    4  |    1   3579#   6  |    357#   57     8  |
|  358# 1568    7  |    2     35#   4  |   1356#  156     9  |
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+
|   58     3    2  |  569   1569  159  |   6789  6789     4  |
|    4    58   19  |  569      2    7  |   1689     3    16  |
|    7    19    6  |    4      8    3  |     19     2     5  |
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+
|   39#    4    5  |    8   1367#  19  |  13679# 1679     2  |
|    1     7  389* | 3569*     4    2  |  56893  5689    36* |
|    6     2  389* | 3579*  1593  159  |      4  1589   137* |
+------------------+-------------------+---------------------+

We have two 333 swordfish and there're plenty of eliminations to make...:)
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a "maximal" jellyfish, with 16 cells

Postby Pat » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:25 am

Nicolas Juillerat [ Sudoku Explainer ] wrote:
      a "maximal" jellyfish, with 16 cells

      [ 21 clues ]
Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . 8 | . 3 . | 6 . .
 . 1 . | 5 . 9 | . 4 .
-------+-------+------
 . 4 . | . . . | . 1 .
 5 . . | . 2 . | . . 8
 . 7 . | . . . | . 3 .
-------+-------+------
 . 5 . | 1 . 4 | . 9 .
 . . 3 | . 6 . | 7 . .
 . . . | . . . | . . .


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Postby udosuk » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:35 am

Thanks for the reference, Pat...

Here is the PM grid after SSTS:
Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 479   #239    5      |#24678  14    #12678  |-1239  #278   -12379  |
 | 479   #29     8      |#247    3     #127    | 6     #257   -12579  |
 |*236    1     *267    | 5      78     9      |*238    4     *23     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 |*2368   4     *269    | 36789  59     35678  |*259    1     *25679  |
 | 5      36     19     | 3479   2      137    | 49     67     8      |
 |*268    7     *1269   | 4689   14     1568   |*2459   3     *2569   |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 |*26     5     *267    | 1      78     4      |*238    9     *236    |
 | 1     #289    3      |#289    6     #258    | 7     #258    4      |
 | 79    #2689   4      |#23789  59    #23578  |-125   #2568  -125    |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

Two 4444 jellyfish, 5 eliminations... How nice!:D
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Postby daj95376 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:31 pm

Thanks udosuk and Pat for the great contributions!!!
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Postby udosuk » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:26 am

The biggest contributions from me are adding a redundant candidate in Mike Barker's grid and running through Nicolas Juillerat's grid through Simple Sudoku... I wouldn't call them "great"...:D

Mike Barker & Nicolas Juillerat are the true heroes here (assuming they are the original creators of those puzzles)...:)
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Postby Mike Barker » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:05 am

Here's another 333 swordfish for your enjoyment:) .

Code: Select all
.3.....5...2...8.....4.7.133....2....4.79...5..9.8.7....83.........786.26....5.8.

Column Swordfish: r246c24|r246c8 => r2c9<>6,r4c3<>6,r6c69<>6
+----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
|  1479      3   1467  |    8    126    169  |  249     5   4679  |
| 14579  15679*     2  | 1569*     3   19-6  |    8  4679* 479-6  |
|    59      8     56  |    4    256      7  |   29     1      3  |
+----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
|     3   1567* 157-6  |  156* 145-6      2  |  149   469*     8  |
|     8      4     16  |    7      9    136  |   13     2      5  |
|   125   1256*     9  |  156*     8  134-6  |    7   346*  14-6  |
+----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
| 12479   1279      8  |    3    146   1469  |    5   479   1479  |
|  1459    159   1345  |   19      7      8  |    6   349      2  |
|     6    179   1347  |    2     14      5  | 1349     8   1479  |
+----------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
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Postby daj95376 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:28 am

Thanks Mike,

Full Swordfish and Jellyfish appear to be difficult to locate. I modified my puzzle generator to try and generate them. I now have many regular Swordfish and Jellyfish to share, but I only managed to generate three 333 Swordfish. I'll add them to the thread soon.

Regards, Danny
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Postby daj95376 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:48 pm

Code: Select all
.3.26.1....2.78...8......4..4.7..5.22.......73.7..1.6..6......4...65.7....8.37.2.

# 333 Swordfish r148\c136
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 |*59    3    *459   | 2     6    *459   | 1     7     8     |
 | 1456  15    2     | 134   7     8     | 369   59    356   |
 | 8     7     156-9 | 139   19    35-9  | 2     4     356   |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 |*169   4    *169   | 7     8    *369   | 5     13    2     |
 | 2     159   156-9 | 39    4     36-9  | 8     13    7     |
 | 3     8     7     | 5     2     1     | 4     6     9     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 7     6     135-9 | 8     19    2     | 39    59    4     |
 |*19    2    *1349  | 6     5    *49    | 7     8     13    |
 | 145-9 159   8     | 149   3     7     | 69    2     156   |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
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Postby daj95376 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:52 pm

Code: Select all
.4..1..5..8..69.2.5.24.....2.....7...6..9..8...4.....2.....79.5.9.65..7..2..4..1.

# 333 Swordfish c248\r467
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 69     4      69     | 7      1      2      | 38     5      38     |
 | 13     8      13     | 5      6      9      | 4      2      7      |
 | 5      7      2      | 4      38     38     | 16     69     169    |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2     *135    89     |*138    8-3    456    | 7     *3469   1469-3 |
 | 13     6      7      | 2      9      45     | 135    8      134    |
 | 89    *135    4      |*138    7      56     | 156-3 *369    2      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 468   *13     168-3  |*38     2      7      | 9     *34     5      |
 | 48     9      38     | 6      5      1      | 2      7      348    |
 | 7      2      5      | 9      4      38     | 368    1      368    |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Postby daj95376 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:55 pm

Code: Select all
2....84..69..2...5...3..9..4....5..3.3..4..8.5..7....6..2..3...3...5..78..98....4

# 333 Swordfish c158\r379
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 2       17      3       | 5       9       8       | 4       6       17      |
 | 6       9       14      | 14      2       7       | 8       3       5       |
 |*178     478-1   5       | 3      *16      46-1    | 9      *12      27-1    |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 4       126     16      | 12      8       5       | 7       9       3       |
 | 9       3       7       | 126     4       16      | 5       8       12      |
 | 5       12      8       | 7       3       9       | 12      4       6       |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 |*178     45678-1 2       | 46-1   *167     3       | 6-1    *15      9       |
 | 3       146     146     | 9       5       1246    | 126     7       8       |
 |*17      567-1   9       | 8      *167     26-1    | 3      *125     4       |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Postby ronk » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:48 pm

Danny, Mike and Pat, thanks for the very nice examples.
Last edited by ronk on Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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