333/4444 Fish

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

re: 333/4444 Fish

Postby Pat » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:54 am

daj95376 wrote:
    Bonus points will be given if a puzzle can be solved without a technique name starting with Almost or ending in Chain -- except XY-Chain. (i.e., the simpler the better!)

of the above Swordfish examples, only 3 would be acceptable as "superior plus" --

Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | 2 4 .
 . . . | 1 . 6 | . . 8
 . . . | 2 . . | . . 9
 ------+-------+------
 . 3 2 | . . . | . . .
 4 . . | . . 7 | . 3 .
 . . 6 | . 8 . | . . 5
 ------+-------+------
 . . 5 | 8 . . | . . 2
 1 7 . | . 4 . | . . .
 6 . . | . . . | 4 . .



Code: Select all
 . 4 . | . 1 . | . 5 .
 . 8 . | . 6 9 | . 2 .
 5 . 2 | 4 . . | . . .
-------+-------+------
 2 . . | . . . | 7 . .
 . 6 . | . 9 . | . 8 .
 . . 4 | . . . | . . 2
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 7 | 9 . 5
 . 9 . | 6 5 . | . 7 .
 . 2 . | . 4 . | . 1 .



Code: Select all
 2 . . | . . 8 | 4 . .
 6 9 . | . 2 . | . . 5
 . . . | 3 . . | 9 . .
-------+-------+------
 4 . . | . . 5 | . . 3
 . 3 . | . 4 . | . 8 .
 5 . . | 7 . . | . . 6
-------+-------+------
 . . 2 | . . 3 | . . .
 3 . . | . 5 . | . 7 8
 . . 9 | 8 . . | . . 4



~ Pat
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Re: re: 333/4444 Fish

Postby ronk » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:42 pm

Pat wrote:
daj95376 wrote:
    Bonus points will be given if a puzzle can be solved without a technique name starting with Almost or ending in Chain -- except XY-Chain. (i.e., the simpler the better!)

of the above Swordfish examples, only 3 would be acceptable as "superior plus"

Pat, it appears that's because the others contain xy-wing(s).

daj95376, as you are likely aware, an xy-wing is a short xy-chain.
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Postby daj95376 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:56 pm

It appears that I wasn't clear on the techniques that I'd prefer to see while solving a 333/4444 puzzle. I was trying to indicate in my initial message that XY-Chains were acceptable.

Here's a list of techniques my solver can handle. I was hoping to get puzzles that it could solve. You'll notice that ALS and other 'almost' techniques are missing. Most chains are missing, but XY-Chain is present.

Code: Select all
Naked/Hidden Subsets
Locked Candidates (1) & (2)
X-Wing
Swordfish
Jellyfish
XY-Wing
XYZ-Wing
BUG+1
Unique Rectangle Type 1
XY-Chain

After this, I resort to Templates and forcing chains to complete puzzles.
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re: the simpler the better

Postby Pat » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:32 pm

Pat wrote:
daj95376 wrote:
    Bonus points will be given if a puzzle can be solved without a technique name starting with Almost or ending in Chain -- except XY-Chain. (i.e., the simpler the better!)

      i liked "the simpler the better" therefore praised those 3 puzzles
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re: 333/4444 Fish

Postby Pat » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:34 pm

daj95376 wrote:
    Full Swordfish and Jellyfish appear to be difficult to locate.

    I modified my puzzle-generator to try and generate them.

    I now have many regular Swordfish and Jellyfish to share,
    but I only managed to generate three 333 Swordfish.

        three -- out of how many ?

        just curious as to the statistics --
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Re: re: 333/4444 Fish

Postby daj95376 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:35 pm

Pat wrote:
        three -- out of how many ?

        just curious as to the statistics --

Pat,

Of 965 puzzles generated, I found 521 Swordfish with the following distribution for each type.
(note: Some puzzles had more than one Swordfish.)

Code: Select all
222: 309
223: 167
233:  42
333:   3

As for cross-posting to the Superior Plus thread, I get chewed out enough. I try to keep cross-posting to a minimal. You are certainly welcome to cross-post any of my puzzles that you feel are appropriate elsewhere!
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re: statistics

Postby Pat » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:15 am

daj95376 wrote:
    Of 965 puzzles generated,
    I found 521 Swordfish
    with the following distribution for each type.
    (note: Some puzzles had more than one Swordfish.)
Code: Select all
222: 309
223: 167
233:  42
333:   3



      thanks!
      amazingly low occurrence of 333,
      i hope someone can come up with an explanation --
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4444 Jellyfish -- 2 new examples from Mauricio (2008.Jan.7)

Postby Pat » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:41 pm

Code: Select all
.............1.....123.456...........23...78..47.6.12...........318.764..58...23.

Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . . | . 1 . | . . .
 . 1 2 | 3 . 4 | 5 6 .
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . 2 3 | . . . | 7 8 .
 . 4 7 | . 6 . | 1 2 .
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . 3 1 | 8 . 7 | 6 4 .
 . 5 8 | . . . | 2 3 .



Code: Select all
.............1.....123.456...........27...38..36.5.42...........682.715..74...83.

Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . . | . 1 . | . . .
 . 1 2 | 3 . 4 | 5 6 .
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . 2 7 | . . . | 3 8 .
 . 3 6 | . 5 . | 4 2 .
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . 6 8 | 2 . 7 | 1 5 .
 . 7 4 | . . . | 8 3 .

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Postby daj95376 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:21 pm

Yes, Mauricio's pattern and clue cells force a 4444 Jellyfish in <9> to exist from the very beginning. The trick appears to be in assigning clues that force a minimal unique solution without compromising the Jellyfish. Impressive!
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