The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **Havard** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:25 pm

hm, mixed feelings now... Happy for 15 new! Concerned about how those 16's got in there...
I'll go with happy for now, and try to fix the code!

Havard

by **Havard** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:35 am

a few more:

Code: Select all: .......6835...........1....1.....5.....9....7..6........92.5......4..3....8....1. .......716..5.....2........34..1..........62....3..5.....6..3...8........1..7.... .......76.6.2.............5...86.4..5.1......7..9......7...5...9.....2......1.... .......97....58.......4....1.72......4.......9........6..7.1....3....45.......8..

Havard

by **gsf** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:27 am

Havard wrote:a few more:

edit well there's a bug -- in my methodology
I used an old catalog and the ones I thought were new were just the 9 new reported here in january
thanks ronk

by **Havard** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:53 am

instead of spamming this forum with a lot of posts, I'll gather all new ones here from now on:

Code: Select all: .......16.......4..5.2.....4...6.3.......82......41...3..5...9.1.4............... .......16.......4..5.2.....4...6.3.......82......41......5...9.1.4......3........ .......21...5...3.4..6.........21...8........5.....6.....4..5...1..7.9...3....... .......21.6.8............7..7..21....2....4.......5...5..43.6..1................9 .......246..8.5...1............4..1..7....3...4.6......2...4.........8.6.....3... .......29.3...6........5..8.6....5...53..........2..........15.2...7.4..9........ .......3.4...2.........7..1...3.1.5.7..5.....2.6..........8.2...3.......5.....4.. ........16..8..........2..3.3....85..2..1.......4.....8.4...6......3....7....5... .......3.9.8.4...........1....1.3..62.....4.....6.......75..2......6.8...1....... .......38.9.2...........51.74....6.......37......1......56..2....3...........7... .......38.9.2...........51.74....6.......3..7....1......56..2....3..7............ ......4.1..73...........52....8.....42...5...5.......7.6...42......1......8...... .......41..73...........52....8..3..42.......5....2........426.....1......8...... ........319.2..........9......6..7........2....5.8....27.1.........3..659........ .......61...8.....4.....9.....3..78.16.5.....2.........3...........2.4...8..6....

EDIT: Added the one missing...

Code: Select all: .......6835...........1....1.....5.....9....7..6........92.5......4..3....8....1. .......716..5.....2........34..1..........62....3..5.....6..3...8........1..7.... .......76.6.2.............5...86.4..5.1......7..9......7...5...9.....2......1.... .......97....58.......4....1.72......4.......9........6..7.1....3....45.......8..

Code: Select all: .......16.......4..9.2.....4...6.3.......82......41......5...9.1.4......3........ .......16.......4..9.2.....4...6.3.......82......41......5...9.1.4........7...... .......41..73...........52....8..3..52.......4....2........426.....1......8...... .......3.19.2....8.....9.........7........2....5.8....27.1.........3..659........ .......3.19.2..........9.........7........2....568....27.1.........3..659........ ........319.2..........9.........7........2....568....27.1.........3..659........ .......716..5.....7........34..1..........62....3..5.....6..3...8........1..7.... .......716..5..........4...34..1..........62....3..5.....6..3...8........1..7....

Code: Select all: ......1.58.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2. ..79..2.4.5..3..........6......5..1.2.6......9...........2.6...13..........4..... ........87...39.........4..3.5....9.6...........81.....2.4..........6.3..1.....6.

Code: Select all: ......1.54.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2.

Code: Select all: .8....23.1..................2....89.....4.7.....15....4.......1...8.3....6.2..... ......24.1....5..........6.3.......5...46......7.......46.2........573...8....... ......3.12...8....6.7.......3..51......4...7.......8..5......6....3.4..........4. ......3.2....1.....2....4..5...6..1...4.........5.....16.....7....4..2..8..3..... ......3.21..6...........8.....56..1..3.......6..8......8...37......27...4........ ......3.4.....2......6.......1.4...........2.....5.68....13.5..26.....7.8........ ......3.47..8.....5.....1.....7.5.....3...6...1.......2.1....7.....34.......6.... ......3.47..8.....5.....1.....7.5.....3...6...1.......2......7....134.......6.... ......4.1.3..9.............4......7..8.1........8.2.......7.53.1.26.....8........ ......4.62..7.....8.........4..65...7.....2........8.....2..17..63.....5......... ......52...8.6........1.....3.5.7..........86...2.....6.4.........3..7.51........ ......8.2...93.....1.........4....5......8.....9.....8....7.43.28.1......6....... ......8.21..9.....3.....6...8....5...2.1........3...7.4..75...........1.........8 .......76.34.......2..8.......2..4......6.3..1...7....6..5...8....4........3..... .....12..6.3......7.........2....57....3....8...4.6...3..7.........2.1.........4. .....15...8.....2.4..3.....5......7.3.1...4............6.27..........1.3....8.... .....2.5..6....3...4..........63....8......7....1...........61458...7...2........ .....2.5..6....3...4..........63....8......7....1...........6.45...17...2......8. .....31...8......6....5......79...5....82..4.3.........4.6..7.........3.6........ ......73..14.6......2......73....8.....42.............8..7.5..........41.....3... .....4.6...57......2.......46.....3....5..9.....2.......8.....56...1.......9..2.. .....42....8.9..4.5.......3.6.3......4....7......5.....2...7...3...........8...5. .....5..179.6..............37....4..1..8........2...6...2.1........3..7........5. .....6..4..2....3..5..7...........2.6...4......8...5..4.....1.6...2........8..7.. .....6.2..3..1......9.........9.43..2.6......7........5...7..6..2.3...........1.. .......3....2...4..7.5........82.1....3......4.6..........937...2....5..........8 .....61.378.2...........4......13....2.....4.......5......4..8.6.1......3........

Code: Select all: ...4....1.3..9.............4......7..8.1........8.2.......7.53.1.26.....8........ ......8.2...93.....1.........4....5...9..8...........8....7.43.28.1......6....... .......76.34.......2..8.......2....4....6.3..1...7....6..5...8....4........3.....

(these ones I think Coloin have already found two of)

Code: Select all: .....65..8......2.3..4.........82.9...4...7....6.........51.4..2...........9..... .....73...658..........1...7..4...1.2............5.....14.6..........2.7......8.. .....82...41.......7..3...58.......3...1.........2..7....4...1.9..7...........3.. ......3........5.19...4........2..4..37.......5.......2......6...65..7..8..1..... .....95.32.....4..7.........3....6.....1.2......97.....5..4........2..7........1. .....96..7..2.....1.........3.91...........4.........2.825.........4.17.......3.. ....1..2.....8.7..3.9.............9..4.........2....56.8....1..5..9........5..4.. ....1..2.7.3....6.5....3...4.....5.....68..........3...6.2...8...........1...5... .7.2.94...1.6...........5..5...8.3.....7...1.8............53..........62......... .7.2.9..6.1.6...........5..5...8.3.....7...1.8............53..........62......... .6..7......1...8.4............4.1......2...3..8.....67...1..2..65.......7........ .6..7......1...8.4............4.1......2...3..9.....67...1..2..65.......7........ .634.....1.....5...........5.2...1.....6...4.3...............82...751......3..... .6.4...7.3..1....8.....9....5..8..........3........1.9....6.52.1............3.... ...4.1...5.....82.............36..7.14......9.2.........36....42...8............. .6.....31....2............4....7.2.9.1.....6...5......7.....8.....6.1...2..3..... .6.5..1......2...9......8..2...8..7..4.....2.....1.......6.3......4..6..8........ .6.5..1..7..............8.63...8..7..4.....2.....1.......6...3....4.....8.....9.. .6.5.....7......4......7......63.5..8.2....7.......1.......8.27.5..............8. .6.51......2....38......4..9.......5.....3.....3.6....5....8......2...6.......1.. .6.54.....2.....7.....1..3....6.2...1....89...........3...9..........6.2......5.. .6.7..3...1.9..........8...8.72....9.......61.........9.....7......5..3.....1.... .6.8...........3....1....4.3....4.7.....6...5.2....8.....5..2.6.........4.......8

Code: Select all: ......5..8....3.2....4..6......82.9...4...7....6.........51.4..2...........9..... ......5..8....3.2....4..9......82.9...4...7....6.........51.4..2...........9..... .....73...568..........1...7..4...1.2............5.....14.6..........2.7......8.. .....85.32.....4..7.........3....68....1.2.......7.....5..4........2..7........1.

Code: Select all: ..2...1........3..........9...8...2..3.....4..4.7.....1.....75...6.39.......4.... ..2...1........3..........9...8...2..3.....4..4.7.....1.....75...8.39.......4.... 5.....1........3..........9..68...2..7.....4..3.7.....1.....75.....39.......4.... 5.....2.....14...........3..47...6.....3.......1......35..6...........212..8..... 5.....23....8.1.............4......8....6...4....3.9.....4...613.2.7............. 5.....3.8...6....5..42......6.....4.....3.7...1.......3...5.......4...6........1. .62............5.1.9........7..6..2.8..5........3.....5.....3..4....2.......9..6. .671...........85..........5.....3.....67........4....32...8......4...6.8......4. .67..........2.3.1.........32....4.....7.6........5...1........4...8..9........57 .68....5....3.1...........73..2.....7.....1......6..4.5....4...........2.4....3.. .7......4.12.........56.8...6....27....9........3.....9.....3..4...7........1.... .7.....1.....84...8........2.....9.8...6.....5....1.7..6.7......14..........2.... ....1..7..21.......8.......3.5....1.7..4........8...5....6..4..5..............8.9 ....1...82.....39.6....8....85............6...1..............147..3......9.2..... ....1...82.....3..6..9.8....85............6...1..............147..3......9.2..... ....1.2..8.........7......5..9...31.6..8.7.........4..75......8...23............. ....1.3....8....4..2.........96.5......4..2..7.....1.....8....2.1.....6.3........ ....1.4..2895......6.......1...743.........8..........3.....7.....8...9....6..... ....1...56..9..4.84.....2..9......1.....2.........5......6...3..28.........1..... ....1.5..4......9.6..........5...2...3.6...........1....2.5..3....4...8....9...6. ....1.5..9......4.2...........2...7..1.....3..68.........9.2......6..8...3....1.. ....1...67..9..5.85.....2..3......1.....2.........6......3...4..28.........1..... ....1.5.9....2....3........8..4.3.........1....46......157............84.2....... ....1.7.86.3........5.......8...4..2............6...3....5..36..2.9...........4.. ....17.9.4.......3....6.......8..7.456..........2.......94.3....1.....6.......... ....18..6.4.....7......3....6.4....53.....1...........8.1...3.....65.........2... ....2..3...4...5...1..............282......6....7.......91.47.....5..4..6........ ....2...4.1....3.......8.....2.6.......5....7...3........1..56.2........87...4...

by **coloin** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:26 am

Excellent work

Just say we were starting afresh.............
Starting from One 17puzzle how long would it take to generate de novo more than 50% [say 20,000] different non-isomorphic ones. ?

Code: Select all: ......1.54.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2.

Your most recent find
Perform a 2-off search
Find "new" 17s
Perform a 2-off search on these
Find more "new" 17s
and continue......

Approx how soon do you get to 20000 different 17s ?

[just to show us [and Gfroyle] the depth and speed of the massive search you have done !]

C

by **gsf** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:31 pm

I made a few recent posts on 17's that may have caused some confusion (I was certainly confused)
I had used an old 17's catalog with 3 fields and should have used the most recent one
http://www.research.att.com/~gsf/sudoku/data/sudoku17-2007-01-22.can.gz
(the last one before havard's excellent work of yesterday and today)

when havard is done I'll collate the new additions and post a new catalog
(after a double check with the great proof readers on this thread)

by **Pat** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:54 am

Havard

coloin

15

14

~ Pat

coloin wrote:The 15 valid ones here are new !

Code: Select all
.......16.......4..5.2.....4...6.3.......82......41...3..5...9.1.4............... .......16.......4..5.2.....4...6.3.......82......41......5...9.1.4......3........ .......21...5...3.4..6.........21...8........5.....6.....4..5...1..7.9...3....... .......21.6.8............7..7..21....2....4.......5...5..43.6..1................9 .......246..8.5...1............4..1..7....3...4.6......2...4.........8.6.....3... .......29.3...6........5..8.6....5...53..........2..........15.2...7.4..9........ .......3.4...2.........7..1...3.1.5.7..5.....2.6..........8.2...3.......5.....4.. ........16..8..........2..3.3....85..2..1.......4.....8.4...6......3....7....5... .......3.9.8.4...........1....1.3..62.....4.....6.......75..2......6.8...1....... .......38.9.2...........51.74....6.......37......1......56..2....3...........7... .......38.9.2...........51.74....6.......3..7....1......56..2....3..7............ ......4.1..73...........52....8.....42...5...5.......7.6...42......1......8...... .......41..73...........52....8..3..42.......5....2........426.....1......8...... ........319.2..........9......6..7........2....5.8....27.1.........3..659........ .......61...8.....4.....9.....3..78.16.5.....2.........3...........2.4...8..6....

by **ronk** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:20 am

coloin wrote:Just say we were starting afresh.............
Starting from One 17puzzle how long would it take to generate de novo more than 50% [say 20,000] different non-isomorphic ones.

I suspect many "seeds" are required to generate that many puzzles. Trivia question: What is the maximum number of 17s that can be generated from one seed?

by **Havard** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:24 am

Pat wrote:
since coloin has confirmed 15 new from that list,
why has the first one vanished, leaving only 14 ??

Thanks, Coloin also alerted me of this. Only me being sloppy in the the copy-paste.

Havard

by **Havard** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:47 am

ronk wrote:Trivia question: What is the maximum number of 17s that can be generated from one seed?

I guess that becomes a matter of how deep you dig. On average, I get 2-3 unique 17's from a complete "2 off 2 on". This is then including the seed. I think the number for "3-off 3-on" is around 35, but I have not done many of these. (very, very slow...) If you could dig deep enough, how knows?

To give you an idea of the time: The search I have going now checks the 17*16/2 ways of taking away two clues in 10 seconds from one 17 (seed). By checking a 3-off this would mean (*15) and a 4-off would be (*15*14) etc. So a 5-off search (for one 17) would finish in around 8 hours. A 6-off would take 4 days etc. Maybe when the 17 search is finished, I could try to do a 5 or 6 off to see what hides within? Any suggestion as to what sudoku could be nominated for this search? Preferably one that lies "alone" in "sudoku space" maybe?

Havard

by **ronk** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:30 pm

Havard, congratulations on your 31 (so far) new 17s.

Havard wrote:
ronk wrote:Trivia question: What is the maximum number of 17s that can be generated from one seed?
I guess that becomes a matter of how deep you dig. On average, I get 2-3 unique 17's from a complete "2 off 2 on". This is then including the seed.

Agreed, but I think coloin was referring to an iterative "2-off" search (your 1-off 1-on, it seems) ... where iteration depends upon finding a new 17. In that sense, wouldn't a "4-off" (2-off 2-on) search likely be finding new seeds :?:

To give you an idea of the time: The search I have going now checks the 17*16/2 ways of taking away two clues in 10 seconds from one 17 (seed).

So you have 17*16/2 combinations of clue removal, then 9*9 possible clue placements in each of [edit: 66*65/2 cell combinations. However, replacement of both removed clues is disallowed.] Is that correct :?:

I could try to do a 5 or 6 off to see what hides within? Any suggestion as to what sudoku could be nominated for this search? Preferably one that lies "alone" in "sudoku space" maybe?

Sorry, as I don't even know what "alone" means, I have no suggestion.

by **m_b_metcalf** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:59 pm

ronk wrote:Sorry, as I don't even know what "alone" means, I have no suggestion.

The two 'bicycles' shown here are alone: nothing within at least d=2.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

by **coloin** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:16 pm

Yes ronk and havard exactly my thinking.

Havard is doing 2-off/2-on searches [slightly confusing but this means the 17 grids that are produced will differ by up to 4 clues [4-off in sudoku space terms]]

Havard has confirmed gsfs work on the 1-off/1on search - no more new 17s were found.

The 17s that havard has now found - found by a 2-off/2-on search none of them share 16 common clues with the previous 36637 17 clue sudokus. This makes them more remote in the sudoku space sense which prompted this search.

A 2-off/2-on search has [17 * 16 / 2] 15-clue subgrids per 17
A 3-off/3-on search has [17 * 16 * 15 / 2*3] 14-clue subgrids per 17

I found a 1-mutable clue non isomorph from the singleton above

Code: Select all: ......1.54.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2. ......1.58.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2.

which I knew would be new ![it is - it is in the codebox above it]

To rephrase ronk's question

Will we be able to go from one sudoku and get all the knowns with a successive 2-off/2-on search :?:

If we get on average 1.5 new sudoku per 17 it is potentially possible.

:?:

If we cant it means that there are many different 3off/3on "pockets" of 17s in sudoku space.

The new 17s that Havard is finding are in a new 2off/2on "pocket", so to speak.....

Ah yes this is what gsf did here

Is there a 17 out there which doesnt share 15 clues with all the other 17s that we have ?

C

by **Ocean** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:24 pm

Congratulations to Havard and everybody else with these new 17s!

Here are four 17s I could not find in the lists:
#

Code: Select all: ..............12...34..5...........4.6...3...2..1..7......8..3........6.8..72.... ..............12...34..5...........5.6...3...2..1..7......8..3........6.8..72.... ..............12.3.45..6.............3...4...2..1..7......8..4........3.8..72.... .............1.2.34...56..................56..2.37......1........52.....3..8...4.

#

by **Havard** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:05 am

It turns out Gordon has made a lot more 17's! http://people.csse.uwa.edu.au/gordon/sudokumin.php
Congratulations Gordon!

39227 is his new number, so that means another 2599(!) has been added to his old collection! I checked this against the new ones I had found, and luckily some of them still holds. The new ones that are not in Gordons new catalog are:

Code: Select all: ....3.25..1...68...........4..52............6...7.....5..1...4......8..12........ ....8...7.3.....4..68.........3..6.17..4.....1........5...1.2.....7...........3.. .6...9....3....7..4..1..........6..19......5..7..2........7.6..1..5.....8........ .71.5.....3......4...1.....6......8.....3.1...4...2...4.68.....2..............3.. 4.....2.6...53....1.........8.7...5.6....24.............4....3..2...6......1..... .......21.6.8............7..7..21....2....4.......5...5..43.6..1................9 .......246..8.5...1............4..1..7....3...4.6......2...4.........8.6.....3... ........16..8..........2..3.3....85..2..1.......4.....8.4...6......3....7....5... .......3.9.8.4...........1....1.3..62.....4.....6.......75..2......6.8...1....... .......38.9.2...........51.74....6.......3..7....1......56..2....3..7............ ......4.1..73...........52....8.....42...5...5.......7.6...42......1......8...... .......41..73...........52....8..3..42.......5....2........426.....1......8...... ........319.2..........9......6..7........2....5.8....27.1.........3..659........ .......97....58.......4....1.72......4.......9........6..7.1....3....45.......8.. .......41..73...........52....8..3..52.......4....2........426.....1......8...... .......3.19.2....8.....9.........7........2....5.8....27.1.........3..659........ .......3.19.2..........9.........7........2....568....27.1.........3..659........ ........319.2..........9.........7........2....568....27.1.........3..659........ ......1.58.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2. ........87...39.........4..3.5....9.6...........81.....2.4..........6.3..1.....6. ......1.54.2........5.........4.6.3....7......1.......3.....7...6..15.......9..2. .8....23.1..................2....89.....4.7.....15....4.......1...8.3....6.2..... ......24.1....5..........6.3.......5...46......7.......46.2........573...8....... ......3.12...8....6.7.......3..51......4...7.......8..5......6....3.4..........4. ......3.2....1.....2....4..5...6..1...4.........5.....16.....7....4..2..8..3..... ......3.4.....2......6.......1.4...........2.....5.68....13.5..26.....7.8........ ......4.62..7.....8.........4..65...7.....2........8.....2..17..63.....5......... ......52...8.6........1.....3.5.7..........86...2.....6.4.........3..7.51........ ......8.21..9.....3.....6...8....5...2.1........3...7.4..75...........1.........8 .......76.34.......2..8.......2..4......6.3..1...7....6..5...8....4........3..... .....2.5..6....3...4..........63....8......7....1...........61458...7...2........ .....2.5..6....3...4..........63....8......7....1...........6.45...17...2......8. .....31...8......6....5......79...5....82..4.3.........4.6..7.........3.6........ .....4.6...57......2.......46.....3....5..9.....2.......8.....56...1.......9..2.. .....42....8.9..4.5.......3.6.3......4....7......5.....2...7...3...........8...5. .....5..179.6..............37....4..1..8........2...6...2.1........3..7........5. .....6..4..2....3..5..7...........2.6...4......8...5..4.....1.6...2........8..7.. .....6.2..3..1......9.........9.43..2.6......7........5...7..6..2.3...........1.. .......76.34.......2..8.......2....4....6.3..1...7....6..5...8....4........3..... .....82...41.......7..3...58.......3...1.........2..7....4...1.9..7...........3.. ....1..2.7.3....6.5....3...4.....5.....68..........3...6.2...8...........1...5... .6..7......1...8.4............4.1......2...3..8.....67...1..2..65.......7........ .6..7......1...8.4............4.1......2...3..9.....67...1..2..65.......7........ ...4.1...5.....82.............36..7.14......9.2.........36....42...8............. .6.....31....2............4....7.2.9.1.....6...5......7.....8.....6.1...2..3..... .6.5..1......2...9......8..2...8..7..4.....2.....1.......6.3......4..6..8........ .6.5..1..7..............8.63...8..7..4.....2.....1.......6...3....4.....8.....9.. .6.5.....7......4......7......63.5..8.2....7.......1.......8.27.5..............8. .6.51......2....38......4..9.......5.....3.....3.6....5....8......2...6.......1.. .6.7..3...1.9..........8...8.72....9.......61.........9.....7......5..3.....1.... .6.8...........3....1....4.3....4.7.....6...5.2....8.....5..2.6.........4.......8 ..2...1........3..........9...8...2..3.....4..4.7.....1.....75...6.39.......4.... ..2...1........3..........9...8...2..3.....4..4.7.....1.....75...8.39.......4.... 5.....2.....14...........3..47...6.....3.......1......35..6...........212..8..... 5.....23....8.1.............4......8....6...4....3.9.....4...613.2.7............. .62............5.1.9........7..6..2.8..5........3.....5.....3..4....2.......9..6. .68....5....3.1...........73..2.....7.....1......6..4.5....4...........2.4....3.. ....1.2..8.........7......5..9...31.6..8.7.........4..75......8...23............. ....1.5..4......9.6..........5...2...3.6...........1....2.5..3....4...8....9...6. ....1.5.9....2....3........8..4.3.........1....46......157............84.2....... ....1.7.86.3........5.......8...4..2............6...3....5..36..2.9...........4.. ....17.9.4.......3....6.......8..7.456..........2.......94.3....1.....6.......... ....2...4.1....3.......8.....2.6.......5....7...3........1..56.2........87...4...

A few more, cross-refrenced against the new gordon17:

Code: Select all: 5.....2.....14...........3..47...6.....3.......1......35.26............12..8..... 5.....23....8.5.............4......8....6...4....3.9.....4...613.2.7............. .7.....4....31.........8...1.36...........42..............7.3...2...4...8......51 .7....85....1......4.......3....8.......97.4.1...........6..1.3.58.........4..... .7.4.9.........8.2..........2.....9.....873.....61.......5...4.8.3......1........ .7.5.........4..3.........6...7.2...3......1.6..8...........5.24...3.......9..7.. .71............23...........5.83....2.....6.....7....13...6.........5.7.4....7... ....3....2...65....4..............348..7............9....4..2.16.....7...3.1..... ....3....9...65....4..............348..7............9....4..2.16.....7...3.1..... .7....5.....8...1..8.3.........5.6.......1..3.9..2.......7....85......4.1........ .73.........2..54...1......5..4.............1.......9.72....4.....31..6.....9.... .73....4....26.............2..8...........31.......4..5.......66.14..........37.. .74...5..6...81................4..172..........5.9....13..........2..4..8........ .76.9.......8...3..........83.1...........7........9.1..9.6.2..1..3...5.......... .752............31..3.6....4....86..1............3..5.8.....4....9.5............. .78...5......4......5......1...9...4...5...8........3....8..2..4..3.....69....... .79..........8.5...4.......3..5..1.....9.4.8.........68...6...........4.1....7... .8......9...4...3....5......3..9.........62....4.8.5.....31....6.5......8........ .8.....296...5.............5...6.4.8..2..3...1.........2.9........1..5....9...... .8.......7...3.2..91.......3..4.8...5.....6.9...1.....2...7...........8.......5.. .4....7...9..38........5...5......3....29..........1.....7..9.83....4.........2.. .8...2......5..7.6..........5.....2...176.......3.....7..14....3......5........8. 9.....2..8..7........1.6.........3.7.41.......6..............147...2.......83.... 9.....6.......1.......5.....3.6......5......7.6.2.8...1.....85........3.7..9..... 9.1.........4..3...........5......12...6.3......8.......9.12....3....67.....4.... 92......7...1.4...............89..5...4....6..1....9..7...36............8.....1.. 9.......1.......85...7.....1...85...5...4..........6...7.6..2..8.......9...2..... 9...............85...7....11...85...5...4..........6...7.6..2..8.......9...2..... 9...2.8......5....4.3.........7.16..2...........4......8.....52..73............9.

EDIT:
Gordon threw these into the mix as well:

Code: Select all: ...35.6..19........8.7........63.2.........1...............1.8.6.2......3.....4.. ....7.5...9.....4......3...8.....7..7.....2.....1.....4......61...92.....3......9 24...........1.5...8.5.....6.....1...3.4............277...2..........84.1........ ....4...9.2.8......5............165.7...............1.3.9.7.......6..52.......1.. .1......8.....35......2.....4.81....7.....3........2.....1...5.37.......2.....6.. .53..2.........6.1...4.....6.....9..7...1.........8...2......8....9...3..8..6.... ...1...8.3....5.............6.4..2........5.37...8.....15......2.3..........4..6. .1..34....72..........5....3.....4.58..1...........3.....2...1.4....9....6....... .....15..72........6.....8....67..........1.....2.....1.9...4.....73..6...5...... ....6...4.6.1......5.....9.....351..4......7.2...........8....29..4...........6.. ....9...39..2.....5......8.....652...3.....4...1.........7....1.8.3...........9.. ...8.5....3....9....1......74......8....3..1......9....6.4..3..2...8....5........

new batch:

Code: Select all: ....2.8..1..5...............26...4.....7...3..8....2....2.64...3......7........1. ....21...........3..7....8.3.2...6..............7...4..4.5..1..8..4.........7...2 ....21...3.7...............421.........75..4..9.......6..8........3..9........15. ....21...8.7...............421.........75..4..9.......6..8........3..9........15. ....215...8.....6............53.......16...4.2..............2.163.8...........7.. ....3.71.8.2......5...........5..4...1....6.....27...34...6...........2........5. ....3.71.8.2......5...........5..4...1....6.....27...94...6...........2........5. ....31....6....2..........94.8.....37..2........6......3.....1.9...4.......8..6.. ....4..58.2.....1...8......5.4....6....2..........37...3....2..4...5.......1..... ....4..6.2..5.....1...........1..6........37....8.2....47............2.8.6..3.... ....4.3....5.7.....1..........5.2..86.3...7.....1........2...1.4.7......3........ ....4.6.3...5............2....2...8.6.....4....7..5.......631...25....7.......... ....4.9..8.63.......1.......5....2...3.6........1............182.......6....5..3. ....418...6......3.27......5.....14....736...............2....61.....4........... ....41...9.....2..7....3..6...57.....18....4.................815..2.............4 ....5..17.2.4.....6........7.1.....3...52........8....3..6.7....5....2........... ....5..4........371........6...89.........2......3.....3.2..5.....6..1...4...1... ....5.3..4...2.....7.........6...5.2.8.1.......59..4.....7...1.2..........3...... ....56..7.1....9...........5....3.6.3..4..2..7.........9......8.2.9............5. .8..56.4..1...........3....5.3.........1...9..........64.2.......2...5........37. ....6..3..2.4.................5..2.73...9....6.............285..74..1...1........ ....6..73.....3.8.1.........7.5........1.4.....6.........2...5...4...1...3..8.... ....6.2.8.91...............3..64..7.2...........1.........82....4....56....3..... .4..6.8...5....3.......1.....75...4.........2.......1....8..56.1.2......3........ ....63....2....1.....7.....6.3...........82..5.......6.9.12...........83......4.. .....453..81..........6.......1.3..86...........8.....4...2.6...3.7...........2.. .........8..3......9..7.12.....412..3......5......6......6...83..1.......2....... ....7...92........1......3..96.3..........24..7....5.....2..1..8..4......3....... ....7..31.24..........8......5...2......3.......6...9....4.58...3........6.2..... ....7..5..16..4....3.......5.....42....6........18.......3..1.62..............7.. ....7..894.6...............3.....4...8..2..........1.....3.46...92....7.1........ ....7.93.2..1.....4........68......4...5...2.....8.......4......7.....9....2.6... ....71...2.....8..............26.4...73.........8......1.....376.......5.....8.1. ....81.....5...3.......4........6.48.2.....1..3.5........6..2........7..1.6...... ....816...2............3......5...736..4.....8.1.......5.2....93.....1........... ....836...52.................6.7.3.....5...2.7...1.........2..48.....7...1....... .4....12....7.8.............9.8....6.1....4.....6.....7...1.........2.3.6.......8 ....9.7...4..............1.1.7...2.....4.3......6.....7.......4......65.83..1.... ....9.75.3......4...6............2.6.5.34................6.21..59..3............. ....91..........34............8...2.5..3.....17........6.47..........9.1....6.5.. ....91..........84............8...2.5..3.....17........6.47..........9.1....6.5.. ....92....5....3..6.....4.....3............91.8.....2....5..67...2.8......1...... ...1...4..5..6.......7...2.....8.3..4.2......7.......1.9....8.....4.....8.....6.. ...1.2.....3....47.5...........3....9.....2.......68......7..358.2......1........ ...1.6.5.7...........9...2.5.6.3..........21.3.....9......7...4.1.5.............. ...13.5...28...............54.6............81.7............239..6.......1...8.... ...142.6.7.8....5..........9..6...........8.2............3...9..42.......8......6 .....2.69.1.5..............9.....5..6...8............1.7.3.5...2......8.....1.4.. ...2...6..1.5......4.......9.....5..6...8.....8....1.....3.5...2......8.....1.4.. ...2...7...8...4...1........6....1.52...........9..8..9.3....2.....4.........1..9 ...2...7.6.8...5....1......2......34....16....7.............1.6...32..........8..

Code: Select all: ....5..17.2.4.....6........7.1.....9...52........8....3..6.7....5....2........... ....6.2.8.91...............5..64..7.2...........1.........82....4....56....3..... ....71...2.....8..............26.4...73.........8......1.....376.......5.....8..1 .4....12....7.8...............8....6.1....4...5.6.....7...1.........2.3.6.......8

a few more: (these have not had any 1-off or 2-off done to them, so there are a few possibilities for 17's hunters here:

)

Code: Select all: 6.4.........8..3...........1...4.....8....5.1.....7.......62.4..3.5.......7.....8 6.4.....8...3.....5............45....1....8........12..3.78.....9......6.......5. 6.4.........2..5..1.........5....4.7....16....9..........57.2..3......6....4..... ...29..7.8...6..............715...........8.4............6..3...9...3.1.4...8.... ...2..84....5.....1............4.26..5.3.....7......1.92....3.......7.......1.... .6.2.....1..6....7............5..12.4.9......3.........2....6...7..4........3...4 ...2....476.....3.1............7.1...2..6.....4......5...8...2.......6...9.4..... .......1782..................174..........56.....1.2..437..........96...1........ 7..3...6.8.....5.....1......31..........8.4...2..5.......6...3.....4....5......7. ....2.1..4..............76..3...8..4.1.6............2.2.4.....5...71....5........ .....36.8......7....1..........2..1967.......3...........6.45..8......2....9..... ...3..6.8......7....1..........2..1967.......3...........6.45..8......2......9... ...3.62..4...........2.....1...4..768.....5.............6.7..4..2.5.............1 ...3.62..4...........2.....1...4..868.....5.............6.7..4..2.5.............1 ...3.8.....97......1....6..82.6...........9.47.....1..2......7.....1...........8. ...3.8.2.6.1...4.....5......8.2.........7.1...............6.7.123.8.............. ...3.....9.....7.....5..........18...34.......2....5..1....6.4....4.7.3.........2 ...37.8...16........5......84....3.......1.........2..5..23......1....6....8..... ...4...175............6.8......326..1.4......7.........2.1.4....8....3........... ...4...26.5...................65...7...2.1....8....3..7.6..........3.5..2......8. ...4...38.2..............9.....9.2..5.....1....7.23......5..67.3.8............... .......7.6....2......4....1.45...2....7.1.......6..8..3..2..6......7...........5. ...4.81..25.......6.........7.3.........5...4.......2.4...2.....3....7.......6.1. ...4.81..25.......6.........7.3.............4....5..2.4...2.....3....7.......6.1. ...4..12.3.5.......6.......7.8....5....1..6..........341....2......85............ ...4..2.68..5...........7...62.7...........4..........3......1.....2.9..4.98..... ....4.6...7..8.....1.......6.2...5.....17..3....8.....5....2...4.....8..........7 ...4..6...7.8......1.......6.2...5.....17..3.....8....5....2...4.....8..........1 ...4...5.3...1.....8....2..6..3.5..1.......8....7.....4.....7......829........... ...4...5.3...1.....8....2..6..3.5..1.......8....7.....4.....7......82.........9.. ......8..5.1.6....7.......41...74....8....2............9.2.8..........41...3..... ...4.5..382.....6.............3..4..6...8....2...........9..5......2..8...4...1.. ...4.69..1.2......3............2..3..4.9..7......1.....8......56....2.1.......... ...4.9...7.5...3.....6.....2...........8...9.3.......514..3.....9.....6.......2.. ...43.2...6.2.....1............71....2....4...3.......7......515......8....6..... ...45.3..2...........1.....6.....1..7....2.......8......13...8..8......2.4.....7. ...5...2..8....3...1.......7..4.2......6..1..3.......8..2.8.9..4...............7. ...5...4....8.....6.9...3...1..3..5.....97.....3.......5.1..6..........9......7.. ...5...7.3...6....6...2.....5....3........1.6...8......8.....2.....34......61.... ...5...842........1..4....7.....21.6....9.2...8........4.8...........9......3.... ...6..1..7...........5....839...........4...7.5.....4.1...78..........9..6....5.. ....2.1.46.7.3............53..6..7..8..4...............4...2.......9.3...1....... ....2.1.47.8.3............56..7..8..9..4...............4...2.......6.3...1....... ...5.72...1.......6......3..7..8...4..2...5......1.......3.....8.......1..72..... ...5..31.2.........8.........135............4......8......84..23.2....7....6..... ...5..8...1..7.4..2..........8.......5...8.3....6...2.6...32...........1......5.. ...5.1...27.......8...........9..1.46...2..........5...354............2...4.7.... .....2...6......9......84...42..........9..1..8...5...1..6.........3.7.8......2.. ...52.8...41..........3....6.....7..53...4........9.1.2.......3...7...4.......... ...53......4.......1....7.....2..1.73..............4..52.....9.....61...8......3. ...53......1...4......2.....8.1.4..........23............6..1..37.....585........ ...54....3.1....7.6.............213..8..5.............2..3.6....7....4.5......... ...6...4.19.....2.8....3.......1.8..74........5..........5........42..........1.7 ...6..3..12........4...........21.8...4...51.....9......34........3..6..2........ ...6..5.7.91..........3....4..2.....2....7.........9...5..9..1.7.......2.......4. ...6.35..82.................9..2........8..7.7.....6..5.6..4..........29......1.. .....41.623........9.......8..7...2.......53.........94.....6.....39........5.... ...7...1..4.....3..6.......2..5..6...3....4...............345..7....8...1...6.... ...7....83...1..............5......7....4.23...8......2.....14..8.5.6.........3.. ...7..28..35...................516..84.....3....2.........3......1...5..2..9..... ...7..3....8.......1.............91.7..3.....2....8....4.59..........68.....4...1 ...7..51.83...9............2......4.1.5.3.......9......9....3.6...1.............8 ...7.1....9....5............3.58....6......7.....9....7.4..3........69..1.....8.. ...6.5..12......4.3..8.......5.2.3...1.......68..........1...7.9.....2........... ...73.......9....84.....6......8.5.67.2........9...........62...9.....7..5....... ...79..4..81........3........5...8.6....2..........1.....8.1...4......2..7.5..... ...8....59.1..............4.5.4.2...3...1.9..............79.1..6...3.....2.......

Code: Select all: 6.4....81...3..........2...2..9..7....1............9...5....3......18..5....4....

which brings the catalog up to (EDIT:)39490 puzzles. I have strong hopes that we will see 40000 in the near future!

Havard

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

17-clue and 18-clue Sudoku update

re: 15 new from Havard (2007.May.11)

Re: re: 15 new from Havard (2007.May.11)