The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **Guest** » Sun May 22, 2005 7:21 am

Discovered Sudoku only today, and am downloding program now and just browsing whilst waiting. What is a X-wing?
Regards
Rod

by **pizza** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:03 pm

yes. wth is an XWing? It keeps getting mentioned.

by **simes** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:22 pm

Here's my attempt at explaining it: http://www.sadmansoftware.com/sudoku/xwing.htm

by **Animator** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:25 pm

'X-Wing' refers to a certain technique which you might need to solve the Very hard puzzles generated by the program...

There are several intresting posts about it on this forum... this is one of yesterday: http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?t=300

by **goldie5218** » Sun May 29, 2005 7:31 am

can someone plse help me ? english is not my home language - i am crazy about su do ku and can solve all the v. easy and most of the easy ones by using logic and sticking to the rules very well - however when i try harder ones i often end up with more than one pencil mark in a cell - i know i am doing it right and can cross check that all my pencil marks are right for those cells - but where do i go from here please? i do not want to use T/E and refuse to use a pc program to do my solving as my believe is this spoils the challenge. think i am not understanding some of the logic in how to choose the correct pencil mark from the many options i have in a single cell?? some have only two but others have up to five pencil marks so i am very confused and my problem is i cant see a logic way of sorting out the options. my thinking is that there are teckniques i do not know of to get me to the next stage of tackling harder puzzles? pleeease can someone help me - blond hair now going very grey!

by **Guest** » Sun May 29, 2005 10:31 am

goldie5218 wrote:can someone plse help me ? english is not my home language - i am crazy about su do ku and can solve all the v. easy and most of the easy ones by using logic and sticking to the rules very well - however when i try harder ones i often end up with more than one pencil mark in a cell - i know i am doing it right and can cross check that all my pencil marks are right for those cells - but where do i go from here please? i do not want to use T/E and refuse to use a pc program to do my solving as my believe is this spoils the challenge. think i am not understanding some of the logic in how to choose the correct pencil mark from the many options i have in a single cell?? some have only two but others have up to five pencil marks so i am very confused and my problem is i cant see a logic way of sorting out the options. my thinking is that there are teckniques i do not know of to get me to the next stage of tackling harder puzzles? pleeease can someone help me - blond hair now going very grey!

goldie5218 it would help if you showed us the grid you are working on.

Also can you tell us where you got the puzzle from, if it was a newspaper-which one?

by **goldie5218** » Mon May 30, 2005 9:59 am

hi mcc, no i dont want you to solve a puzzle for me thanks anyway - what i was hoping for was a help in the direction of what to do once i had identified the various alternative numbers that could go into a cell - i understand the principle of cross checking all cells along the rows and down each column to eliminate some of the options but even after this i am still left with multiple choices for given cells! so what now?? i am sure we wernt supposed to fall back on T/E at this stage? think there nust be some trick or tecnique that i am not aware of ? to move on from here?
any help would be appreciated ! thnks - goldie

by **Animator** » Mon May 30, 2005 2:34 pm

How should we be able to help you?

Should we list every possible technique you can use to solve a puzzle? Should we give examples of them aswell?

How should we know what techniques, and what patterns you reconise in a puzzle? You didn't elaborate on them did you?

The easiest way to explain new techniques is to show you a pattern in the puzzle you are working on. But you refuse to post the puzzle you are working on?

Your question: 'what to do'? My useless answer: look for patterns.

So again the question: how should we be able to help you?

by **goldie5218** » Mon May 30, 2005 4:09 pm

thnks animator, for yr reply, we are not on the same page ok?, if u guys r solving puzzles everyday u cannot see the probs the new people have i think, again i will try and xplain how do i proceed when ive got up to four possible options(pencil marks) for many cells across a row or down a column ? very very confusing to a beginner, perhaps u guys can see the solution at a look but i cannot and am trying to apply logic. i can solve them by doing T/E but i am sure thats not the rightway? but many thanks for your at least answering my query - cheers goldie

by **Animator** » Mon May 30, 2005 4:12 pm

You look for a special pattern.

What patterns is usefull? impossible to tell without seeing a grid.

If you post your grid then you will get hints, which will tell you on what to look (and for what you should look).

by **Pappocom** » Mon May 30, 2005 6:09 pm

goldie5218, might I ask that you post the grid (the puzzle) that is giving you trouble?

Other forum members have found in the past that Animator's advice has been very useful to them. I am sure you would learn useful things if you let Animator help you.

- Wayne

by **goldie5218** » Mon May 30, 2005 7:26 pm

hi guys, please dont let me give u the impression i am not grateful for yr help. i am very very very much so . i respect that this help is being given for nothing but to help the learners as myself. however i have tried to teach myself via yr website and find some of the english terms tricky. eg it says " eliminate all the numbers except those in the defining cells" but there is no clue to what a defining cell is - i am guessing it means the cell where the correct number should be filled in ? this from the writeup on the term "swordfish" but if i have the formula correct i will have three columns, each with two cells, holding pencil marks depicting a single identical number, and each of the columns must have the cells in identical rows? ok ive got that and believe it or not can get to that point on my own (eventually) then comes the trainsmash! how do i decide which cells to eliminate if i dont know how to identify a "defining cell?" and ive tried to cross reff via the rows /columns to see if this shows up where i should put the correct pencil mark but am stuck right there ! cheers goldie

by **Roz** » Mon May 30, 2005 8:40 pm

goldie5218 wrote:" eliminate all the numbers except those in the defining cells" but there is no clue to what a defining cell is

I hope you don't mind me butting in this thread.

If I were you I would definately post your puzzle to the forum. I read these boards everyday, though rarely post, and find Animators advice very informative and helpful. However, I often have to copy the original puzzle the poster is having difficulty with, and do it myself, to get familiar with it before Animators advice sinks in with me.

What I'm basically getting at is, that the only way you can really be helped is by example, with a puzzle you have become familar with.

Roz

by **Guest** » Mon May 30, 2005 11:01 pm

Have a look at this site: It offers software but just click "Techniques"

http://simes.clara.co.uk/programs/sudoku.htm

Click "Techniques" and follow the pages in order.

John

by **Guest** » Mon May 30, 2005 11:04 pm

Sorry it needs www at the beginning

http://www.simes.clara.co.uk/programs/sudoku.htm

John[/url]

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