What technique from here? Almost solved.

Post the puzzle or solving technique that's causing you trouble and someone will help

What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby Waznboi05 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:28 pm

Hi everyone,

stuck now after a couple hours have to give up.

Im stuck with a bunch of 3-4 candidates and not enough 2 candidates to attempt an xy chain etc.

Image

any help would be awesome. i dont even prefer the solution, just the technique to follow next. honestly ive probably overlooked something simple.

thanks!
Waznboi05
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 18 December 2016

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby JasonLion » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:04 pm

I see a Sashimi Swordfish.


7.2.3..41.4.17.3.21..42.7...713.24......14.27.247...13418267.3.257943186...581274
User avatar
JasonLion
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 604
Joined: 25 October 2007
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby Leren » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:40 pm

The Sashimi Swordfish I saw needs to be followed by a Sashimi XWing (which is also a Skyscraper) to crack the puzzle.

An alternative is a finned Franken Jellyfish, which solves the puzzle in one move.

In all cases the fish/Skyscaper digit is 8.

Leren
Leren
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: 03 June 2012

Postby Pat » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:18 pm

JasonLion wrote:
I see a Sashimi Swordfish.

7.2.3..41.4.17.3.21..42.7...713.24......14.27.247...13418267.3.257943186...581274

Code: Select all
            /--> (8) c4\r1 -->\
(8)r5c2 -->                     --> b3 no 8
            \--> (8) r4\c9 -->/


OR as a finned fish
    r4c4b3\r1c9b4 with fin at r5c4
    likewise excludes (8)r5c2
User avatar
Pat
 
Posts: 3258
Joined: 18 July 2005

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:12 pm

Since I'm a lousy angler, I prefer multi-colors on 8's to get -8 r5c2 to reduce the puzzle to basics. There's also a kite on 8's, but it isn't needed.
Steve
User avatar
SteveG48
2016 Supporter
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: 08 November 2013
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby keith » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:39 pm

SteveG48 wrote:Since I'm a lousy angler, I prefer multi-colors on 8's to get -8 r5c2 to reduce the puzzle to basics. There's also a kite on 8's, but it isn't needed.


I agree. Since when did simple single-digit coloring become a Finned Franken Jellyfish?

Keith
keith
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 03 April 2006

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby Leren » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:52 pm

Couldn't see the coloring move but did see a simple X chain : (8) r1c7 = r3c9 - r4c9 = r4c1 - r2c1 = (8) r2c6 => - 8 r1c46; stte

Leren
Last edited by Leren on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leren
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: 03 June 2012

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby keith » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:17 pm

After basics:

Code: Select all
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 7     689   2     | 6-8   3     56-89 | 5689a 4     1     |
| 5689e 4     569   | 1     7     5689f | 3     569   2     |
| 1     3689  3569  | 4     2     5689  | 7     569   589b  |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 5689d 7     1     | 3     59    2     | 4     569   589c  |
| 35689 3689  3569  | 68    1     4     | 5689  2     7     |
| 5689  2     4     | 7     59    68    | 5689  1     3     |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 4     1     8     | 2     6     7     | 59    3     59    |
| 2     5     7     | 9     4     3     | 1     8     6     |
| 369   369   369   | 5     8     1     | 2     7     4     |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+

a and f are pincers on 8. I call this single-digit coloring: You may have a different name.

Keith
keith
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 03 April 2006

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby Leren » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:15 am

keith wrote : a and f are pincers on 8. I call this single-digit coloring: You may have a different name.

Actually your move is the same as my X chain but I would not call it single-digit coloring, because there is no Strong link between the 8's in cells d and e. Thus they are not conjugates and can't, in general, take opposite colors.

This point is made clear, for example, here and here.

Not only that, cells a and f appear to take on different colors in the X chain, but that only proves that they both can't be False, not that one is True and one is False.

As it turns out they are both True in the solution, so they are not conjugates !

Leren
Leren
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: 03 June 2012

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby SteveG48 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:34 am

Leren wrote:Couldn't see the coloring move but did see a simple X chain : (8) r1c7 = r3c9 - r4c9 = r4c1 - r2c1 = (8) r2c6 => - 8 r1c46; stte

Leren


8r1c4 = 8r5c4
8r1c7 = r3c9 - r4c9 =8r4c1
Steve
User avatar
SteveG48
2016 Supporter
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: 08 November 2013
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby Leren » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:23 am

SteveG48 wrote:
Leren wrote:Couldn't see the coloring move but did see a simple X chain : (8) r1c7 = r3c9 - r4c9 = r4c1 - r2c1 = (8) r2c6 => - 8 r1c46; stte

Leren


8r1c4 = 8r5c4
8r1c7 = r3c9 - r4c9 =8r4c1

8r2c1 = 8r2c6
8r4c1 = r4c9 - r3c9 = 8r1c7

Leren
Leren
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: 03 June 2012

Re: What technique from here? Almost solved.

Postby keith » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:30 am

Leren wrote:
keith wrote : a and f are pincers on 8. I call this single-digit coloring: You may have a different name.

Actually your move is the same as my X chain but I would not call it single-digit coloring, because there is no Strong link between the 8's in cells d and e. Thus they are not conjugates and can't, in general, take opposite colors.

This point is made clear, for example, here and here.

Not only that, cells a and f appear to take on different colors in the X chain, but that only proves that they both can't be False, not that one is True and one is False.

As it turns out they are both True in the solution, so they are not conjugates !

Leren

Leren,

I did not say they are conjugates, I said they are pincers. This is the same logic as a (Turbot) kite or skyscraper: One or both of the base cells are false, one or both of the pincers are true.

Over the years I have become quite adept at finding these things without having to draw anything but rudimentary diagrams in some cases. I do not use software, I solve puzzles in my armchair using pencil and paper. (I do use software to check my work and do the formatting for discussion forums like this one.)

Keith
keith
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 208
Joined: 03 April 2006


Return to Help with puzzles and solving techniques