The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[AnotherLife]

Please, try to solve this puzzle by human means. Don't be computer slaves!

Code: Select all

|..3|...|...|
|..6|7..|...|
|.8.|...|.45|
|---+---+---|
|..1|..4|..8|
|.6.|...|...|
|.94|.71|.2.|
|---+---+---|
|..7|..8|...|
|.4.|9..|35.|
|...|145|.7.|

..3........67......8.....45..1..4..8.6........94.71.2...7..8....4.9..35....145.7.


[urhegyi]

Are uniqueness rules allowed? (based on the fact this sudoku has a unique solution)

[AnotherLife]

Are uniqueness rules allowed? (based on the fact this sudoku has a unique solution)

Surely. As far as I know, only the puzzled with unique solutions are posted here.

[totuan]

Please, try to solve this puzzle by human means. Don't be computer slaves!

I do not know what you meant, solve this one with pencil & paper? OMG, no time and patient to do that .
With SS solver, this one is not hard. One of ways is UR(56)r46c47 (after coloring 7's) => r4c7=9, then the rest is easy...

totuan

[AnotherLife]

I do not know what you meant, solve this one with pencil & paper? OMG, no time and patient to do that .
totuan

These limitations are excessive. I meant you could use such tools as automatic pencil marks and one digit filters, but you should not use the 'autosolve' and 'find all steps' options. That is, you should find the methods by yourself. This is the way I solve puzzles.

[totuan]

I do not know what you meant, solve this one with pencil & paper? OMG, no time and patient to do that .

These limitations are excessive. I meant you could use such tools as automatic pencil marks and one digit filters, but you should not use the 'autosolve' and 'find all steps' options. That is, you should find the methods by yourself. This is the way I solve puzzles.

Wow, I think all players here solve puzzles that way. You are no need to pay attention "Don't be computer slaves!"

totuan

[AnotherLife]

Wow, I think all players here solve puzzles that way.
totuan

I am not quite sure.

[marek stefanik]

A lot of steps for me:

Code: Select all

.-----------------.------------------.--------------------.
| 12579  1257  3  | 4     58    269  | 12679  1689  12679 |
| 4      125   6  | 7     58    29   | 129    1389  1239  |
|#279    8     29 |a23    1     2369 |#2679   4     5     |
:-----------------+------------------+--------------------:
| 237    237   1  | 2356  2369  4    | 569–7  369   8     |
|#237–8  6     5  |a238   239   23   |#1479   139  #13479 |
|e38     9     4  | 356–8 7     1    | 56     2    d36    |
:-----------------+------------------+--------------------:
| 12569  125   7  |a236   236   8    |b12469 b169  b12469 |
| 126    4     8  | 9     26    7    | 3      5    c126   |
| 2369   23    29 | 1     4     5    | 8      7    c269   |
'-----------------'------------------'--------------------'

(8=236)r357c4 – 6r7c789 = 6r89c9 – (6=3)r6c9 – (3=8)r6c1 => –8r5c1, r6c4
7r35\c17b6 => –7r4c7

Code: Select all

.-----------------.-----------------.-------------------.
| 12579  1257  3  | 4     58   269  | 12679  689  12679 |
| 4      125   6  | 7     58   29   | 129    389  1239  |
| 279    8     29 | 23    1    2369 | 2679   4    5     |
:-----------------+-----------------+-------------------:
| 237    237   1  | 2356  236  4    | 569   b369  8     |
| 23     6     5  | 8     9    23   | 47     1    47    |
| 8      9     4  |#356   7    1    |a56     2  b#36    |
:-----------------+-----------------+-------------------:
| 12569  125   7  | 23–6  236  8    |#12469c#69  #12469 |
| 126    4     8  | 9     26   7    | 3      5   #126   |
| 2369   23    29 | 1     4    5    | 8      7   #269   |
'-----------------'-----------------'-------------------'

[ER 6r6b9\r7c49] = 6r6c7 – (6=39)b6p29 – (9=6)r7c8 => –6r7c4

Code: Select all

.---------------.---------------.------------------.
| 1279  127  3  | 4   5    269  | 2679   8   2679  |
| 4     5    6  | 7   8    29   | 129    3   129   |
| 279   8   #29 |#23  1    2369 | 2679   4   5     |
:---------------+---------------+------------------:
| 237   237  1  | 56  23   4    | 569    69  8     |
| 23    6    5  | 8   9    23   | 47     1   47    |
| 8     9    4  | 56  7    1    | 56     2   3     |
:---------------+---------------+------------------:
| 5     1–2  7  |#23  236  8    | 12469  69  12469 |
| 126   4    8  | 9   26   7    | 3      5   126   |
| 2369  23  #29 | 1   4    5    | 8      7   26    |
'---------------'---------------'------------------'

2c34\r37b7 => –2r7c2

Code: Select all

.---------------.--------------.----------------.
| 1     27   3  | 4   5    269 | 2679  8   2679 |
| 4     5    6  | 7   8    29  | 1     3   29   |
| 279   8    29 | 23  1    236 | 267   4   5    |
:---------------+--------------+----------------:
| 237   237  1  | 56 #23   4   | 569   69  8    |
| 3–2   6    5  | 8   9   #23  | 47    1   47   |
| 8     9    4  | 56  7    1   | 56    2   3    |
:---------------+--------------+----------------:
| 5     1    7  | 23  236  8   | 2469  69  2469 |
|#26    4    8  | 9  #26   7   | 3     5   1    |
| 2369  23   29 | 1   4    5   | 8     7   26   |
'---------------'--------------'----------------'

2r8b5\r5c15 => –2r5c1, stte

Marek

[P.O.]

Code: Select all

after singles and intersections:

 12579  1257   3      4        12589  269    12679    1689   12679           
 4      125    6      7        12589  29     129      1389   1239           
 1279   8      29    c(23)     1239   2369   12679    4      5               
 237    237    1      2356     2369   4      5679     369    8               
 2378   6      5     d23+8     239    239    1479     139    13479           
e×3+8   9      4     e×356-8   7      1      56       2     a±3+6             
 12569  125    7     c(23)6    236    8     b124*69  b1*69  b124-69           
 126    4      8      9        26     7      3        5     b12-6             
 2369   23     29     1        4      5      8        7     b2-69             

                                                          / => r6c4 <> 3
r6c9{n3 n6} - b9n6{r7c9r8c9r9c9 r7c7r7c8} - c4{r3r7}{n2n3}
                                                          \ r5c4{n2n3 n8} - r6n8{c4 c1} => r6c1 <> 3
                                                           
singles: (r7c1b7 n5  r3c5b2 n1  r2c2b1 n5  r1c5b2 n5  r2c5b2 n8  r1c8b3 n8  r2c8b3 n3  r5c4b5 n8  r6c9b6 n3  r6c1b4 n8)

1279   127    3      4       5      269    2679   8      2679           
4      5      6      7       8      29     129    3      129             
279    8      29     23      1      2369   2679   4      5               
237    237    1      ×(23)56 ×2369  4      56×79  69     8               
23×7   6      5      8       239    23     1479   19     1479           
8      9      4      56      7      1      56     2      3               
5      12     7      236     236    8      12469  169    12469           
126    4      8      9       26     7      3      5      126             
2369   23     29     1       4      5      8      7      26             

c2n7{r4 r1} - c9n7{r1 r5} => r4c7 r5c1 <> 7
r4n5{c4 c7} - r6c7{n5 n6} - c8n6{r4 r7} - c4n6{r7 r4} => r4c4 <> 2,3
r8c5{n2 n6} - r7{c4c5}{n2n3} - r7c2{n2 n1} - r8c1{n1n6 n2} - b4n2{r4c1r5c1 r4c2} => r4c5 <> 2

intersection: r5n2{c5 c6} => r5c1 <> 2
ste.


[eleven]

I'm with totuan. The "hard step" is the UR, which SE obviously does not have implemented, the rest is coloring (skyscraper, empty rectangle).

[totuan]

Wow, I think all players here solve puzzles that way.

I am not quite sure.

I believe them, I think that you should believe them too
Below puzzle is old puzzle long ago - SE 9.0, how you solve it? I think that many players here can solve it on about 4-7 moves without krakens or diagrams.

Code: Select all

..17...23...3....4.235..6...5..4.......178.......5..7...8..6.3.3....7...64..351..

After basic moves:

Code: Select all

 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 4589   689    1      | 7      689    49     | 589    2      3      |
 | 5789   6789   5679   | 3      2689   129    | 5789   1589   4      |
 | 4789   2      3      | 5      89     149    | 6      189    1789   |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 12789  5      2679   | 269    4      239    | 2389   1689   12689  |
 | 29     369    2469   | 1      7      8      | 23459  4569   2569   |
 | 1289   13689  2469   | 269    5      239    | 23489  7      12689  |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 12579  179    8      | 249    129    6      | 24579  3      2579   |
 | 3      19     259    | 2489   129    7      | 24589  45689  25689  |
 | 6      4      279    | 289    3      5      | 1      89     2789   |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


Enjoy and good luck!
totuan

[AnotherLife]

Below puzzle is old puzzle long ago - SE 9.0...

Totuan, I think this is a topic for another discussion, and you had better post it as a separate thread.

(8=236)r357c4 – 6r7c789 = 6r89c9 – (6=3)r6c9 – (3=8)r6c1 => –8r5c1, r6c4...
...
[ER 6r6b9\r7c49] = 6r6c7 – (6=39)b6p29 – (9=6)r7c8 => –6r7c4
...

Marek, I don't understand your approach. The first step is an AIC with groups and an ALS, the second (your step 3) is equivalent to a kraken. Do you really need such complicated methods to solve this puzzle in 5 steps? It is solvable in 6 steps by standard methods (hidden rectangle, ER, skyscraper).

I'm with totuan. The "hard step" is the UR, which SE obviously does not have implemented, the rest is coloring (skyscraper, empty rectangle).

Eleven, I am with you and Totuan. I don't understand why SE does not find the hidden rectangle (56)r46 c47 leading to -6 r4c4. According to this list, unique rectangles and loops should be rated as ER 4.5-5.3.

I called this puzzle 'Unique Monster' because there are not so many puzzles rated ER 8.5 that are solvable by standard patterns. Moreover, uniqueness is essential here, as without the uniqueness methods the solution becomes complicated (see Marek's solution).

[marek stefanik]

I think that many players here can solve it on about 4-7 moves without krakens or diagrams.

Where's the fun in that, though?

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all

.--------------------.-----------------.---------------------.
| 4589   689    1    | 7     689   49  | 589    2      3     |
| 5789   6789   5679 | 3     2689  129 | 5789   1589   4     |
| 4789   2      3    | 5     89    149 | 6      189    1789  |
:--------------------+-----------------+---------------------:
| 12789  5      2679 | 269   4     239 | 2389   1689   12689 |
| 29     369    2469 | 1     7     8   | 23459  4569   2569  |
| 1289   13689  2469 | 269   5     239 | 23489  7      12689 |
:--------------------+-----------------+---------------------:
| 12579  179    8    | 249   129   6   | 24579  3      2579  |
| 3      19     259  | 2489  129   7   | 24589  45689  25689 |
| 6      4      279  | 289   3     5   | 1      89     2789  |
'--------------------'-----------------'---------------------'
18r46c9 – (1|8)r4c78 = 178r4c139 – 7r9c3 = 7r9c9 – (7=189)r3c589
||                                                     |
189r3c589 –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––|
||                                                     |
(8–6)r8c9 = 6r8c8 – (6=189)r349c8 –––––––––––––––––– 1r2c8 = (1–2)r2c6 = 2r2c5
||                                                                         |
8r9c9 – (8=29)r9c48 –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 2r78c5 = [UR 19r78c25] = 7r7c2, stte

Marek, I don't understand your approach. The first step is an AIC with groups and an ALS, the second (your step 3) is equivalent to a kraken. Do you really need such complicated methods to solve this puzzle in 5 steps?

Once I saw the ALS, the chain was quite obvious – one ERI and two bivalue cells. The ER is completely solved, which makes it way easier to spot.
The second wasn't that hard either, I first noticed the xyz-wing and then looked for ways to get an elimination (it was simpler to notate this way, but it somewhat conceals the idea).
My goal never was to solve it in 5 steps, there are others who can tell you how difficult it is (I see P.O. has 4 steps + basics). I only try to shorten my path a bit before posting it (here I had a continuous kraken I quite liked, but the third step gets all of its elims anyway).
I also didn't see the UR, neither the –6r4c4 elim which I miss quite often, nor did I go the extra mile to find +9r4c7 like totuan did (9r4c7 == 6r7c4 – 6r7c8 = [SDC r7c8 b6p2579] I guess).

Marek

[AnotherLife]

I also didn't see the UR, neither the –6r4c4 elim which I miss quite often...
Marek

I think you were misled by the high ER rating of this puzzle, and you started to devise complicated methods.

[jco]

I think you were misled by the high ER rating of this puzzle, and you started to devise complicated methods.

@Bogdan

There is nothing complicated there. They are beautiful, creative moves!
(if you stop blocking your learning experience and simply study it).
I hope some day you understand that your views, prejudices are damaging your learning curve in Sudoku and are disrespectful to other (often more experienced, more knowledgable) players.
I insist on this part: your lack of respect for other people views (and knowledge! many are very,very strong Sudoku players like Marek).
Why not trying to learn from them? Why not, trying to study and understand their way of thinking?
Why you always stick dogmatically to software?
(they were written by normal people and do not hold the ultimate truth)
I come to this forum to see beautiful, creative ideas like the ones shown above.
I do not post solutions in your thread exactly because of this type of feedback.
But my decision is not the best one: I should do like everyone else:
just play the move of my choice, according to my taste and mood in a particular day.