"too hard" ( not ! ) — joel64 # 198 # 37

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Postby Pat » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:43 pm

7b53 wrote:
Pat wrote:joel64 # 163 # 40

for some reason, i like the previous one better.


well the first puzzle ( joel64 # 198 # 37 )
was posted with no hint,
therefore it was a good challenge ;
then i pointed to the 2nd puzzle ( joel64 # 163 # 40 )
and you had a hint, you knew you'd need trios,
therefore it was less of a challenge

sorry i spoilt it for you!

in a book, they'd be scattered,
you'd never know if you're looking for trio ? X-wing ?
( or even both in same puzzle, and you don't know which comes first — keeps you on your toes )
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Postby Pat » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:57 pm

7b53 wrote:trying to find pair at the beginning..... none !

the Patterns Game prefers puzzles with the tough move at the start;
for me, the puzzle is trickier when the tough move is not at the start
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Re: "too hard" ( not ! ) — joel64 # 198 # 37

Postby 7b53 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:17 am

Pat wrote:then i pointed to the 2nd puzzle ( joel64 # 163 # 40 )
and you had a hint, you knew you'd need trios,
therefore it was less of a challenge

this is certainly true.
my point was the hidden triples for the first puzzle was a bit harder to spot.
although the second puzzle requires more steps.if remembered correctly, 4 triples plus 2 pairs.

Pat wrote: the puzzle is trickier when the tough move is not at the start

example:
Pat # 201 # (224692) #

this one is not only tricky. it is pretty tough trying to solve it without PMs.

naked pair of {2,6}. I spotted the hidden quads instead{3,4,5,7} at box 3.
puzzle at this stage...
Code: Select all
 9 . . | . 8 . | 3 5 7
 . 5 . | 9 . 7 | 8 4 .
 . . 7 | 5 . . | 9 1 .
-------+-------+-------
 . . 4 | . . . | 5 9 .
 6 . . | . . 9 | 4 . 3
 . 9 . | . . . | 6 . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . 6 | . . 2 | 7 3 9
 . 1 9 | 4 . . | 2 8 5
 . . . | . 9 . | 1 6 4


I hate making these grid. guess i'm the laziest one :D

without PMs from here, which would be easier to spot.....?
a naked triple {1,2,3} or a hidden triple {4,6,8} at box 1 ?
this will then lead to another naked triple {4,6,8} or hidden one {2,3,7} at column 2. (resulting r5c2<>8)
leading to a crucial pair of {2,7} at row 5.
a pair of {1,5} is now form at column 5 . solving r1c3=2.
with the same pair of {2,7} at row 5, another pair of {1,8} is at column 4. solving r1c6=1.

am I writing too much ? a shorter way to write this ?
or is there a different path ?
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re: Pat # 201 # (224692) #

Postby Pat » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:15 am

7b53 wrote:leading to a crucial pair of {2,7} at row 5.
  • a pair of {1,5} is now form at column 5 . solving r1c3=2.
  • with the same pair of {2,7} at row 5, another pair of {1,8} is at column 4. solving r1c6=1.
am I writing too much ? a shorter way to write this ?
or is there a different path ?

same path

(first move was c9 "hidden" {1,8} or "naked" ={2,6})

the 2 trios are certainly required

the tricky part for me:
r5 "naked" pair
--> 2 separate "naked" pairs

    incidentally, c4 pair + c5 pair combine to solve b2 1
    (i always prefer "hidden singles")
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