Terminology

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Terminology

Postby Smythe Dakota » Wed May 17, 2006 9:59 am

In the Announcements forum, Pappocom (Wayne Gould) wrote:When you make posts, it would be good if we could all use the same terms. ....

That should help.

Pappocom wrote:.... The puzzle grid consists of 9 rows (horizontally), 9 columns (vertically) and 9 3x3 boxes. ....

What do you call the "boxes" in a jigsaw Sudoku?

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Postby Ruud » Wed May 17, 2006 10:43 am

Pieces
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Re: Terminology

Postby gfroyle » Wed May 17, 2006 11:04 am

Smythe Dakota wrote:What do you call the "boxes" in a jigsaw Sudoku?


Me personally?

Sometimes tiles, sometimes blocks.

I like "tiles" myself because it carries from mathematics the implication that the tiles/blocks/pieces must completely cover the grid and not overlap..

But of course, to someone not familiar with mathematical tilings, it would mean nothing much...
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Re: Terminology

Postby ronk » Wed May 17, 2006 11:51 am

gfroyle wrote:I like "tiles" myself because it carries from mathematics the implication that the tiles/blocks/pieces must completely cover the grid and not overlap..

But of course, to someone not familiar with mathematical tilings, it would mean nothing much...

"Completely covering" and "no overlap" also apply to household flooring, so I think "tiles" relates the intended meaning to non-mathematicians too.
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Re: Terminology

Postby lunababy_moonchild » Wed May 17, 2006 11:54 am

ronk wrote:
gfroyle wrote:I like "tiles" myself because it carries from mathematics the implication that the tiles/blocks/pieces must completely cover the grid and not overlap..

But of course, to someone not familiar with mathematical tilings, it would mean nothing much...

"Completely covering" and "no overlap" also apply to househould flooring, so I think "tiles" would mean a lot to non-mathematicians too.

Speaking as a non-mathematician I'd just like to point out that the word tiles conjures up bathroom or kitchen and thus has no meaning when connected to sudoku, since these tiles are uniform in shape i.e. all are square or rectangle. Whilst that does ensure "completely covering" and "no overlap" it's totally redundant when it comes to jigsaw sukodu (since the shapes therein are irregular).

I think, to me, since they are jigsaw sudoku the shapes containing the numbers need to be called pieces.

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Postby Ruud » Wed May 17, 2006 1:09 pm

The relationship with jigsaw puzzles immediately prompted me to call them "pieces".

However, in more general terms, I also use the term "nonets" for either the 3x3 "boxes" or the jigsaw "pieces". For many solving strategies, the shape of these nonets is irrelevant.

Ruud.
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Postby Smythe Dakota » Thu May 18, 2006 6:30 am

Ruud wrote:.... I also use the term "nonets" for either the 3x3 "boxes" or the jigsaw "pieces". ....

Doesn't "nonet" come from the Latin word for "nine"? If so, this name would be appropriate only for standard 9x9 puzzles (whether "jigsaw" or not).

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Postby udosuk » Thu May 18, 2006 6:53 am

If we could have pentominoes, I suppose we could have nonominoes... or abbreviate as nono's...:D
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Postby lunababy_moonchild » Thu May 18, 2006 8:15 am

You want a sudoku puzzle - or parts of therein - to be called no-no's?

Luna:D
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Postby Smythe Dakota » Sun May 28, 2006 7:55 am

lunababy_moonchild wrote:.... the word tiles conjures up bathroom or kitchen .... these tiles are uniform in shape i.e. all are square or rectangle .... that does ensure "completely covering" and "no overlap" ....

Did you know that it is possible to tile (i.e. completely and no overlap) a plane with two different sizes of square tiles? I'm not talking about obvious or ham-handed methods, such as one size for the north half of the room and the other size for the south half, or striping. I'm talking about actual chessboard-style tiling:

Code: Select all
              ┌─────────┬──┐
              │        │  │
              │        ├──┴──────┐
              │        │        │
           ┌──┤        │        │
           │  │        │        │
           ├──┴──────┬──┤        │
           │        │  │        │
           │        ├──┴──────┬──┤
           │        │        │  │
           │        │        ├──┘
           │        │        │
           └──────┬──┤        │
                 │  │        │
                 └──┴─────────┘


Far from a perfect rendering (it would have worked perfectly on an MS-DOS screen) but you get the idea (I hope). The above pattern can be repeated as far as desired, left, right, up, or down.

The ratio between the sides of the two square sizes -- 1/2, 1/3, 3/5, etc -- is not important. It does not even have to be rational. The same idea works no matter what the ratio.

I actually saw this done once, on the floor of the lobby at a Hilton at 94th and Cicero in suburban Chicago.

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Postby udosuk » Sun May 28, 2006 1:38 pm

Smythe Dakota wrote:
Code: Select all
              ┌─────────┬──┐
              │        │  │
              │        ├──┴──────┐
              │        │        │
           ┌──┤        │        │
           │  │        │        │
           ├──┴──────┬──┤        │
           │        │  │        │
           │        ├──┴──────┬──┤
           │        │        │  │
           │        │        ├──┘
           │        │        │
           └──────┬──┤        │
                 │  │        │
                 └──┴─────────┘


Far from a perfect rendering (it would have worked perfectly on an MS-DOS screen) but you get the idea (I hope).

I'd be surprised if anybody can get the idea visually from the above "rendering"...
By any chance you were trying to describe the following configuration?:(
Code: Select all
   .-----.--.
   |     |  |
.--:     :--'--.
|  |     |     |
:--'--.--:     |
|     |  |     |
|     :--'--.--:
|     |     |  |
'--.--:     :--'
   |  |     |
   '--'-----'
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Postby lunababy_moonchild » Sun May 28, 2006 1:55 pm

You will notice that they are still rectangle and uniform though. Whether on a wall or a floor, regardless of the room.

Luna

*typo*
Last edited by lunababy_moonchild on Sun May 28, 2006 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tso » Sun May 28, 2006 3:10 pm

udosuk wrote:If we could have pentominoes, I suppose we could have nonominoes... or abbreviate as nono's...:D


Though order 9-cell polyomino are called a nonominoes -- it would be much more sensible in this context to call them simply "ominoes". That way, they would have the same name regardless of what size the puzzle is. "omino", "N-omino", "order N omino" are terms in current use in the polyform world. And though nonomino is just as valid as pentomino, hexonimo, heptonimo and octonimo, I don't believe it is nearly as obvious to the uninformed what it means. And though the meaning of "pent" is fairly obvious in context, the meaning of "nono" is not.
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Postby ab » Sun May 28, 2006 4:20 pm

Smythe Dakota wrote:.... Did you know that it is possible to tile (i.e. completely and no overlap) a plane with two different sizes of square tiles?

Much more interesting is the problem of tiling a square with different sized squares. It can be done:!:

PS this should be in the off topic forum really
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Postby Smythe Dakota » Mon May 29, 2006 5:06 am

udosuk wrote:.... I'd be surprised if anybody can get the idea visually from the above "rendering"...
By any chance you were trying to describe the following configuration?:(
Code: Select all
   .-----.--.
   |     |  |
.--:     :--'--.
|  |     |     |
:--'--.--:     |
|     |  |     |
|     :--'--.--:
|     |     |  |
'--.--:     :--'
   |  |     |
   '--'-----'

Thanks, that's much better. If only the Windows boys hadn't messed up MS-DOS (where my version would have looked perfect) -- oh well.

At least one person DID get the idea from my rendering -- you. Again, thanks.

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