Superior #13 (Sunday 23) - stuck...

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Superior #13 (Sunday 23) - stuck...

Postby aleph » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:55 am

would appreciate some hint. Am stuck.


Here is where I am (in bold the original clues)
---|9-3|85-
--3|--8|6--
-2-|-64|13-
__________
2--|359|47-
73-|481|-26
-4-|276|---
__________
-52|8-7|-6-
---|1-5|2--
-94|632|7-5

and with candidates
{46} {167} {167} |9 {12} 3 | 85 [{247}
{459} {17} 3 |{57} {12} 8 | 6 {49} {2479}
{589} 2 {5789} | {57} 64 | 13 {79}
______________________________________
2 {168} {168} | 359| 47 {18}
73 {59}| 481 | {59} 26
{589} 4 {1589} | 276 | {359} {189} {1389}
_______________________________________
{13} 52 | 8 {49} 7 | {39} 6 {1349}
{368} {678} {678} | 1 {49} 5 | 2 {489} {3489}
{18} 94 | 632 |7 {18} 5

many thanks for your patience and help!
luis
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re: Sunday Times #13 (Oct.23)

Postby Pat » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:10 am

there's a trio in box 1


- Pat
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Postby aleph » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:52 pm

arghhh... looked all lines, columns, looked for x wings....
Thanks for your patience and time!!!!!
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Wwwwaaaaiitaminit

Postby Ace Pumpkin » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:54 pm

Wait, were aleph's posted candidates and numbers correct so far?
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Postby aleph » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:42 pm

Hi Ace,
with that trio I missed (arghrrr!!!) it was done in a couple minutes afterwards.

Would be happy if I can help
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Postby Ace Pumpkin » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:07 pm

aleph wrote:Hi Ace,
with that trio I missed (arghrrr!!!) it was done in a couple minutes afterwards.

Would be happy if I can help


Yes, please!
Were your candidates correct up to that point? It seems impossible to solve if they were (where to place the 6 in c1 (leftmost column), for example). I had the exact same candidates you did. I don't need the actual candidates, well, er, not just yet...

Is Box 1 the upper left one?

And, though I searched in the entire forum, I couldn't find out what a trio, or a triple, was. So, what is a trio? I have some idea, I mean, I'm able to do some fiendish puzzles now and again, but....
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Postby MCC » Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:43 pm

Ace Pumpkin

Here's a good place to start, click on:Basic terms
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Not quite

Postby Ace Pumpkin » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:22 pm

MCC, thank you, I find your link most helpful in helping me match much of my jargon with sudoku.com's.

Unfortunately, neither that page nor Gaby's dictionary to which Gaby links contains a definition for either "trio," used above, or "triple," used in other forum posts.

Fortunately, A Google search revealed "paulspages.co.uk" and tips on "How to solve sudoku puzzles." I found an answer there. I'd thought it had to do with candidates, I just didn't understand the rules of logic surrounding them.

Still, my conundrum is, aleph's (and my, for I came to the same list) candidates don't appear to be correct to me, as listed above. I'll look again with a fresh eye....

I came to this forum specifically because I was having trouble with Superior 13, and because I felt I was so close to solving it, but for my seemingly impossible candidates!
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Postby MCC » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:28 pm

Ace Pumpkin

Try here for further links to 'Triplets' etc.

http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?p=11137#p11137
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Postby aleph » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:18 pm

Ace Pumpkin,
let me try to help. let me know if I can help further.

A triplet (trio) is a set of 3 digits that show up in 3 cells and form a closed set i.e.
- if they are in the same line, then no other cell can have any of those digits because it would violate the rules (duplication)
- same thing for a row
- same thing for a box (and this is what I oversaw)

1) So in box 1 you have the combination 1,6,7 in the following cells
r1c2, r1c3, r2c2
this means that we can NOT have
- the 6 in r1c1, the 7 in r3c3

2) This means we have identified a 4 in r1c1 AND now you have another triplet in Column 1: r2c1, r3c1 and r6c1 contain 5,8,9 so you will be able to find another single, etc

As for the candidates:
the key to all this is that r1c1 has only has candidates 4,6... not the 1,4,6 because box 7 *has* to have a one in column 1.

Hope this helped
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re: Sunday Times #13 (2005.Oct.23)

Postby Pat » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:29 pm

Pat wrote:there's a trio in box 1


hi Ace Pumpkin

just to clarify:
  • sometimes you find 3 cells for which only 3 digits are possible,
    such as the r1c2,r1c3,r2c2 indicated by aleph;
  • other times you find 3 digits for which only 3 cells are available,
    such as the 5,8,9 with which i solved the same puzzle!
these are 2 opposite types of a trio.

personally, i consider the 2nd type easier to spot.
without ever making a list of possible digits for each cell,
just observe the puzzle as given:
where in box 1 can you place the 5? the 8? the 9?

each of them has only 3 cells available,
and they happen to be the same 3 cells.

these 3 cells must therefore be reserved for the 5,8,9
- no room there for any other digit!
thus you immediately place the 4 for box 1---

(so, no, i never did check the posted list of "candidates")

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