Suggest A Move (SAM#1)

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Postby StrmCkr » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 pm

3. With the interpretation of you guys I have difficulty in finding much humour out of this joke. (So a skeleton asks the bartender to lend him "a mug", which is a pun to "a face", and then what? So he wears it and drinks the beer? What's so funny about that?)


the joke is there is many ways to take what the skeleton asked
double untaundra(spelling i cant recal how to spell this expression).
which means- two meanings

both:
needs a mug for the beer and lacking a "face" as well.
the humor in it is
trying to figure out which way he ment.

A bartender hands a skeleton a beer and retorts "now thats a perfect mug"


or
"thats a mug i'd die for"


Donm there is also these ones still used in american newer movies set in diffrent eras.
occasionally tv shows will still cough up these ones now and again.

(mustly in cop shows)

"i'd recognize that mug anywhere"
show a picture and ask -"know this mug?"
Last edited by StrmCkr on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tarek » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:18 pm

off topic

Mug shot is a term still in common use !

Regarding the joke & regarding udosuk's comment ... A better alternative would have been the sudoku related "Squirmbag":D

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Postby ronk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:48 pm

edit: post withdrawn
Last edited by ronk on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby storm_norm » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:29 am

b-e-e-r-m-u-g

mix the letters a little bit and you get

beg me, r u?

or...

me guber

or...

be me rug

or...

rebug me
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Postby Luke » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:20 am

ronk wrote:There's a Type 2 uniqueness test on (236)BUG-Lite:r258c46 that implies r8c46<>2.

I think I'm getting somewhere with this. I post this for the benefit of others like me who may have been unfamiliar with this technique. If I got it wrong, I'm sure I'll hear about it!
Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 7      128    4      | 18     5      189    | 6      3      129    |
 | 58     125    9      |*36     4     *36     | 18     7      12     |
 | 3      18     6      | 189    2      7      | 5      48     49     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 59     6      2      | 7      8      49     | 3      145    145    |
 | 1      45     7      |*26     3     *26     | 49     459    8      |
 | 89     48     3      | 49     1      5      | 2      6      7      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 6      7      8      | 1245   9      124    | 14     1245   3      |
 | 24     9      1      |*23458  6     *2348   | 7      2458   45     |
 | 24     3      5      | 1248   7      1248   | 1489   12489  6      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

Code: Select all
Deadly pattern: ab    This puzzle: 36
                bc                 26
                ac                 23

With the 3's locked in r8, any placement of 2 would force the DP. When it occurred to me these could be used in chains, I went looking and found this.

It's interesting how many of the moves suggested for this puzzle involved uniqueness techniques, all of them different.
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Postby StrmCkr » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:36 pm

actually i was double checking it just now
.. posted this at work and it didnt look right. thought about it all the way home to find your comment underit after i was done editing this.

deleting.

and
no im not always wrong.
Last edited by StrmCkr on Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby udosuk » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:24 pm

StrmCkr wrote:incorrect.
luke451

R9C2 or R9C8
= 2
still leaves R7 with options to break the mug.
ie R7C468 still hold "2"

You're wrong (as usual).
StrmCkr

The move is perfectly correct, the BUG-lite @ r258c46 (with strong link of 3 @ r8c46) allows us to eliminate 2 from r8c46.

It has nothing to do with r9c28, or r7c468.:idea:
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Postby StrmCkr » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:32 pm

i was in the middle of editing this.

any way.

the way i seen it was the pattern

of 36 36
26 26
23 23

is applciable when both
r7s and r9 is active as 2 leaving only the patern.

how do you eliminate both to show the pattern completing?
ie remove all the @ options for digit 2..

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 7      128    4      | 18     5      189    | 6      3      129    |
 | 58     125    9      |*36     4     *36     | 18     7      12     |
 | 3      18     6      | 189    2      7      | 5      48     49     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 59     6      2      | 7      8      49     | 3      145    145    |
 | 1      45     7      |*26     3     *26     | 49     459    8      |
 | 89     48     3      | 49     1      5      | 2      6      7      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 6      7      8      | 1245@   9      124@    | 14     1245   3      |
 | 24     9      1      |*23458  6     *2348   | 7      2458   45     |
 | 24     3      5      | 1248@   7      1248@   | 1489   12489  6      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


or are you simply looking at the pattern chain.

Code: Select all
6 - 3
2 - 6
3 - 248

or 
    3  - 6
    6  - 2
2458  - 3


and applying
the ur 1.1.
and deleting 2 from both sides to avoid the pattern?

if this is the case im not used to looking at it that way..
im used to expressing the pattern in some way.
then deleting the cells that forced the expression.
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Postby eleven » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:14 pm

udosuk wrote:Also, this is an alternative presentation of StrmCkr's "MUG" move ...
Code: Select all
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 7     #128    4      |@18     5      189    | 6      3     #129    |
| 58    #125    9      | 36     4      36     | 18     7     #12     |
| 3     @18     6      |@189    2      7      | 5      48     49     |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 59     6      2      | 7      8      49     | 3      145    145    |
| 1      45     7      | 26     3      26     | 49     459    8      |
| 89     48     3      | 49     1      5      | 2      6      7      |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 6      7      8      | 1245   9      124    | 14     1245   3      |
| 24     9      1      | 23458  6      2348   | 7      2458   45     |
| 24     3      5      | 1248   7      1248   | 1489   12489  6      |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+

The 2 UR's "directly" give the eliminations to solve the puzzle:
From UR 12 you can eliminate 1 in r12c2 and r1c9 (you have the x-wing in 2 and the implications r2c2=1 <=> r1c9=1)
From UR 18 cou can eliminate 18 from r1c2 and 8 from r3c4 (r1c2=1 => r3c4=1 and r1c2=8 <=> r3c4=8).
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Postby Luke » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:02 am

I see it, eleven. You're right! The backdoor was right there from the start. The key word is "implications." I tend to get myopic and only look at the implications within the four cells of the UR, and miss what's outside it.

Great job. Good thing you didn't weigh in until the end or we would have missed out on some good stuff along the way....
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Postby StrmCkr » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 am

thanks eleven..
for re showing my move in a diffrent way

i was trying to figure out how to show it using a move that expressed the two urs at once.
rather then using implications:)

thanks!
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Re: Suggest A Move (SAM#1)

Postby aran » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:10 pm

Luke451"][quote="aran wrote:
DonM wrote:
Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 7      128    4      | 18     5      189    | 6      3      129    |
 | 58     125    9      | 36     4      36     | 18     7      12     |
 | 3      18     6      | 189    2      7      | 5      48     49     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 59     6      2      | 7      8      49     | 3      145    145    |
 | 1      45     7      | 26     3      26     | 49     459    8      |
 | 89     48     3      | 49     1      5      | 2      6      7      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 6      7      8      | 1245   9      124    | 14     1245   3      |
 | 24     9      1      | 23458  6      2348   | 7      2458   45     |
 | 24     3      5      | 1248   7      1248   | 1489   12489  6      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


Developing the 24s prominent in the lowest boxes :
1. 245r8c189=8r8c8-(8=4)r3c8-(4=9)r3c9-(9=18)r13c4-(18=24)r9c4 : =><24>r8c4
In regards to chain 1: why not <24> r8c46? My reasoning is r8c6 can also see the starting and ending sets just like r8c4.

The reason "why not" :
the chain logic is :
either 245 is true in r8c189 and hence <24>r8c46
or UR24 r89c4 must be avoided and hence <24>r8c4.
The resulting true statement is restricted to the overlap of the above : <24>r8c4.
No verdict therefore for <24>r8c6.
Perhaps I should have been more explicit...but many out there regard explanation as waffle:)
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Postby aran » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:23 pm

ronk wrote:
aran wrote:Developing the 24s prominent in the lowest boxes :
1. 245r8c189=8r8c8-(8=4)r3c8-(4=9)r3c9-(9=18)r13c4-(18=24)r9c4 : =><24>r8c4

That's an invalid deduction. What's to prevent r8c189=258 and r9c4=4 ?

And that's an invalid observation...
The logic of the deduction (as also just posted in response to Luke451's query) is :
either 245r8c189 holds => <24>r8c46
or UR24 r89c4 must be avoided => <24>r8c4.
Only the overlap of the above is established as true : <24>r8c4.
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Postby ronk » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:35 pm

aran wrote:
ronk wrote:
aran wrote:Developing the 24s prominent in the lowest boxes :
1. 245r8c189=8r8c8-(8=4)r3c8-(4=9)r3c9-(9=18)r13c4-(18=24)r9c4 : =><24>r8c4

That's an invalid deduction. What's to prevent r8c189=258 and r9c4=4 ?

And that's an invalid observation...
The logic of the deduction (as also just posted in response to Luke451's query) is :
either 245r8c189 holds => <24>r8c46
or UR24 r89c4 must be avoided => <24>r8c4.
Only the overlap of the above is established as true : <24>r8c4.

When using a AUR, you should say so at the outset. "Developing the 24s ..." doesn't cut it IMO, and your AIC said nothing at all about an AUR.
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Postby Luke » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:30 am

aran wrote:either 245r8c189 holds => <24>r8c46
or UR24 r89c4 must be avoided => <24>r8c4.
Only the overlap of the above is established as true : <24>r8c4.

Thanks for the "why" to my "why not."

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 7      128    4      | 18     5      189    | 6      3      129    |
 | 58     125    9      | 36     4      36     | 18     7      12     |
 | 3      18     6      | 189    2      7      | 5      48     49     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 59     6      2      | 7      8      49     | 3      145    145    |
 | 1      45     7      | 26     3      26     | 49     459    8      |
 | 89     48     3      | 49     1      5      | 2      6      7      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 6      7      8      | 1245   9      124    | 14     1245   3      |
 |*24     9      1      |*24 358 6      2348   | 7      2458   45     |
 |*24     3      5      |*24 18  7      1248   | 1489   12489  6      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 1. 245r8c189=8r8c8-(8=4)r3c8-(4=9)r3c9-(9=18)r13c4-(18=24)r9c4 : =><24>r8c4

If (24) ends the chain we're staring at a Type 1 unique rectangle. That's thinking outside the bun...

I think I've got the handle on chain 2, in a way:
aran wrote:2. 24r9c14=18r19c4-(18=9)r3c4-(9=4)r3c9-(4=8)r3c8-(8=1)r2c7-(1=4)r7c7-(4=5)r8c9 :=><24>r9c78 (memory for the <2> highlighted)

If the chain had ended on the bold (4), that would have been enough for r9c78<>4. Taking the extra step completes the establishment of chain memory (or one's favorite alternate terminology) for 3 of the 4 candidates in r8c8. Only (2) is left, hence r9c8<>2. Rather clever, even if this description isn't.

And AFAIC, waffle all you want. I'll take mine with blueberries.
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