[Solved]Suggest a move please.

Post the puzzle or solving technique that's causing you trouble and someone will help

Re: Suggest a move please.

Postby JC Van Hay » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:13 pm

Have a look at Steve's blog on the au site, in particular this page and the related ones.
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Re: Suggest a move please.

Postby bat999 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:40 pm

JC Van Hay wrote:Have a look at Steve's blog on the au site, in particular this page and the related ones.

That post is "Page 2 of Proof of Diabolic Puzzle of 02/20/07".
Why should I look at it?
8-)
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Re: Suggest a move please.

Postby JC Van Hay » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:15 pm

:roll:
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Re: Suggest a move please.

Postby eleven » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:40 pm

bat999 wrote:What would be your thought process to find a move from my stuck position?

Normally when stuck, i try deadly patterns, x-chains, and ALS's as starting points, maybe almost xy- or w-wings, but i found nothing here.
If i really wanted to solve it nevertheless, i probably would try to find contradictions for bivalue/bilocation candidates (added: starting with those, where i already know, that i can come far in different directions), if not another idea comes, when sitting over it. But i don't want to invest so much time for a single puzzle anymore.

If you want to see, how to solve such hard puzzles manually without using the sledgehammer approach, you should read Steve's blog, who did it best in my eyes.
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Re: Suggest a move please.

Postby bat999 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:59 am

Hi
I found a move of my own.
(It's the same conclusion as Leren's but different method, I think)

Code: Select all
.------------------.------------------------.-----------------.
|  1     *8-6   7  | 2689     4689   269    |  346  34    5   |
|  4568   3     2  | 568      4568   7      |  1    9    *46  |
|  9     *56   *46 | 3       *14     156    |  7    8     2   |
:------------------+------------------------+-----------------:
|  3      89    5  | 1489     2      189    |  49   6     7   |
|  246    269   1  | 4569     7      569    |  8    45    3   |
|  48     7     46 | 45689    3      5689   |  2    15    19  |
:------------------+------------------------+-----------------:
| *256    1     9  | 7       *56     4      | *36   23    8   |
| *26     4     8  | 1269    *169    3      |  5    7    *169 |
|  7     *256   3  | 125689   15689  125689 | *69   124  *146 |
'------------------'------------------------'-----------------'


There's a problem if r1c2 is 6. :o

First...
(This puts a 1 in r8c5)
r1c2=6->r2c9=6->r89c9<>6
r1c2=6->r3c2=5->r9c2=2->r8c1=6->r7c1=5->r7c5=6->r7c7<>6
r89c9<>6,r7c7<>6->r9c7=6->r8c9=9
r8c1=6,r8c9=9->r8c5=1

Second...
(This puts a 1 in r3c5)
r1c2=6->r3c3=4->r3c5=1

That would put two 1's in column 5. :lol:

=> - 6 r1c2

---------------

After that there was some more work to do, but not too difficult. 8-)

HoDoKu program._Extreme 3092).png
HoDoKu program._Extreme 3092).png (216.15 KiB) Viewed 256 times
8-)
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Re: [Solved]Suggest a move please.

Postby daj95376 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:53 am

There is a reason why HoDoKu classified this puzzle as Extreme. It needs convoluted/network logic to crack it.

Code: Select all
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1       68      7       |  2689    4689    269     |  346     34      5       |
 |  4568    3       2       |  568     4568    7       |  1       9       46      |
 |  9       56      46      |  3       14      156     |  7       8       2       |
 |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
 |  3       89      5       |  1489    2       189     |  49      6       7       |
 |  246     269     1       |  4569    7       569     |  8       45      3       |
 |  48      7       46      |  45689   3       5689    |  2       15      19      |
 |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
 |  256     1       9       |  7       56      4       |  36      23      8       |
 |  26      4       8       |  1269    169     3       |  5       7       169     |
 |  7       256     3       |  125689  15689   125689  |  69      124     146     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 88 eliminations remain

 =5r7c5  =5r2c1  =8r6c1  =4r5c1  =4r6c4  =5r5c4 -> [r5c8]=EMPTY  =>  -5 r7c5

Code: Select all
 after Singles
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1      68     7      |  2689   489    269    | b46     3      5      |
 |  68-4   3      2      |  568    458    7      |  1      9     a46     |
 |  9      5      46     |  3      14     16     |  7      8      2      |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  3     d89     5      |  1489   2      189    | c49     6      7      |
 |  246    269    1      |  4569   7      569    |  8      45     3      |
 | e48     7      46     |  45689  3      5689   |  2      15     19     |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  5      1      9      |  7      6      4      |  3      2      8      |
 |  26     4      8      |  129    19     3      |  5      7      169    |
 |  7      26     3      |  12589  1589   12589  |  69     14     146    |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 69 eliminations remain

 XY-Chain: (4=6)r2c9 - (6=4)r1c7 - (4=9)r4c7 - (9=8)r4c2 - (8=4)r6c1  =>  -4 r2c1

_
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Re: [Solved]Suggest a move please.

Postby JC Van Hay » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:52 am

daj95376 wrote:There is a reason why HoDoKu classified this puzzle as Extreme. It needs convoluted/network logic to crack it.

Code: Select all
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1       68      7       |  2689    4689    269     |  346     34      5       |
 |  4568    3       2       |  568     4568    7       |  1       9       46      |
 |  9       56      46      |  3       14      156     |  7       8       2       |
 |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
 |  3       89      5       |  1489    2       189     |  49      6       7       |
 |  246     269     1       |  4569    7       569     |  8       45      3       |
 |  48      7       46      |  45689   3       5689    |  2       15      19      |
 |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
 |  256     1       9       |  7       56      4       |  36      23      8       |
 |  26      4       8       |  1269    169     3       |  5       7       169     |
 |  7       256     3       |  125689  15689   125689  |  69      124     146     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 88 eliminations remain

 =5r7c5  =5r2c1  =8r6c1  =4r5c1  =4r6c4  =5r5c4 -> [r5c8]=EMPTY  =>  -5 r7c5
This proof of the exclusion of 5r7c5 can be written as the following chain ...
Code: Select all
+--------------------+-------------------------+----------------+
| 1       68    7    | 2689      4689   269    | 346  34    5   |
| 6(458)  3     2    | 68        4568   7      | 1    9     46  |
| 9       56    46   | 3         14     156    | 7    8     2   |
+--------------------+-------------------------+----------------+
| 3       89    5    | 1489      2      189    | 49   6     7   |
| 26(4)   269   1    | 469(5)    7      569    | 8    (45)  3   |
| (48)    7     6(4) | 689(45)   3      5689   | 2    15    19  |
+--------------------+-------------------------+----------------+
| 26(5)   1     9    | 7         6-5    4      | 36   23    8   |
| 26      4     8    | 1269      169    3      | 5    7     169 |
| 7       26-5  3    | 12689(5)  15689  125689 | 69   124   146 |
+--------------------+-------------------------+----------------+
[Skyscraper(5r72c1,5r29c4)=*M-Wing[(4=5)r3c8 - 5r5c4=*(5-4)r6c4=4r6c13] - 4r5c1=HP(48-5)r26c1=5r7c1]-5r9c2,5r7c5
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