17 posts
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I’m writing a short film about a person that tries to solve an impossible sudoku. This will also mean that computer programs can’t solve it either or it would take more than 2 weeks to find the results. If you can construct me one, that would be great. Since this is just a film, it ends with him creating an algorithm the crack it. He finds out that the algorithm also relates to the understanding how the universe started. If you can, state what makes a sudoku impossible, like what are the minimum visible numbers needed for one to complete a 3X3 sudoku by hand or computer. If you think I should add certain facts about sudoku please list them since if it sounds good I might use it in film. Cheers

- nfady
**Posts:**3**Joined:**03 July 2005

Any "starting grid" for a sudoku has either no solutions, a unique solution, or more than one solution. There are programs readily avalable on the internet which will tell you which is which for a given sudoku, such as the one at http://sudoku.sourceforge.net/

For any sudoku, even ones on larger grids, it is in principle possible with a finite amount of computation to determine how many solutions it has. So no, there isn't a su doku that's "impossible to solve", though there might be ones that are very difficult.

For any sudoku, even ones on larger grids, it is in principle possible with a finite amount of computation to determine how many solutions it has. So no, there isn't a su doku that's "impossible to solve", though there might be ones that are very difficult.

- Hammerite
**Posts:**44**Joined:**20 June 2005

Okay then. I assume that you have read up on the 15-puzzle though? Here are a couple of pages that discuss it.

http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/fifteen.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_puzzle

I don't really know much about it, although I have heard the story of the conman who offered the $1000 prize before, in a lecture. :)

http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/fifteen.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_puzzle

I don't really know much about it, although I have heard the story of the conman who offered the $1000 prize before, in a lecture. :)

- Hammerite
**Posts:**44**Joined:**20 June 2005

nfady wrote:I’m writing a short film about a person that tries to solve an impossible sudoku. ... Since this is just a film, it ends with him creating an algorithm the crack it. He finds out that the algorithm also relates to the understanding how the universe started.

I agree with Hammerite; even the most difficult of sudoku puzzles can be solved, even if numbers are just placed at random until the correct answer is found.

Instead of creating an algorithm, perhaps your character could have some sort of innate ability to simply spot the solution of any sudoku. The character doesn't solve a puzzle per se, he/she simply knows the solution. The character would come to realize that this ability gives him/her insights into the universe itself. Just a thought...

- scrose
**Posts:**322**Joined:**31 May 2005

>I’m writing a short film about a person that tries to solve an

>impossible sudoku. This will also mean that computer programs

>can’t solve it either or it would take more than 2 weeks to

>find the results. If you can construct me one, that would be

>great. Since this is just a film, it ends with him creating an

>algorithm the crack it. He finds out that the algorithm also

>relates to the understanding how the universe started. If you

>can, state what makes a sudoku impossible, like what are the

>minimum visible numbers needed for one to complete a 3X3

>sudoku by hand or computer. If you think I should add certain

>facts about sudoku please list them since if it sounds good I

>might use it in film. Cheers

>

>Remember a Sudoku doesn't have to be 9x9 numeric.

>

>You could use a 36x36 alphanumeric grid for extra complexity.

>You could even encode a secrete message into the grid.

>It would however still be susceptible to brute force attack.

>

>Pseudo Cool

yes I go with Pseudo Cool here. Just enlarge the gridsize.

We know, the problem is NP-complete so, your hero might find

out that he had finally solved that biggest actual problem of

mathematics and computer science.

I doubt that it relates to the understanding of how the universe

started.

But it's important for encryption e.g., so your hero would be hunted

and sought after by secret services all over the world.

Isn't that good enough for a moviemaker ?

Average movieviewers would be more interested in such "real world"

action anyway, rather than how the universe looked like 13 billion

years ago. Only cosmologists would like to see your movie...

BTW. do you know the Eternity Puzzle ? See

http://www.archduke.demon.co.uk/eternity/

That might match the subject of your film even better than a sudoku.

The inventor thought it were impossible to solve and did put a

million pound prize on it but then it was cracked by two British

programmers in joint work. They didn't need to solve P=NP, though ;-)

Guenter.

>impossible sudoku. This will also mean that computer programs

>can’t solve it either or it would take more than 2 weeks to

>find the results. If you can construct me one, that would be

>great. Since this is just a film, it ends with him creating an

>algorithm the crack it. He finds out that the algorithm also

>relates to the understanding how the universe started. If you

>can, state what makes a sudoku impossible, like what are the

>minimum visible numbers needed for one to complete a 3X3

>sudoku by hand or computer. If you think I should add certain

>facts about sudoku please list them since if it sounds good I

>might use it in film. Cheers

>

>Remember a Sudoku doesn't have to be 9x9 numeric.

>

>You could use a 36x36 alphanumeric grid for extra complexity.

>You could even encode a secrete message into the grid.

>It would however still be susceptible to brute force attack.

>

>Pseudo Cool

yes I go with Pseudo Cool here. Just enlarge the gridsize.

We know, the problem is NP-complete so, your hero might find

out that he had finally solved that biggest actual problem of

mathematics and computer science.

I doubt that it relates to the understanding of how the universe

started.

But it's important for encryption e.g., so your hero would be hunted

and sought after by secret services all over the world.

Isn't that good enough for a moviemaker ?

Average movieviewers would be more interested in such "real world"

action anyway, rather than how the universe looked like 13 billion

years ago. Only cosmologists would like to see your movie...

BTW. do you know the Eternity Puzzle ? See

http://www.archduke.demon.co.uk/eternity/

That might match the subject of your film even better than a sudoku.

The inventor thought it were impossible to solve and did put a

million pound prize on it but then it was cracked by two British

programmers in joint work. They didn't need to solve P=NP, though ;-)

Guenter.

Last edited by dukuso on Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

- dukuso
**Posts:**479**Joined:**25 June 2005

The movie origonally suggeested about Sudoku need not be about solving a puzzle. Kinda reminds me of Cube and Cube 2: Hypercube, It might be some weird science-fiction-type movie. i like those.

If oyu want to make it about solving a Sudoku, how about some people are trappled inside a giant 3d alpha-numeric Sudoku and they have to solve it, but they cant see an overview of the whole grid (because they are inside), they have to crawl around the rooms to find the rooms that have a clue filled in, and make a note of it building it a picture of the grid as they go along, and the twist at the end it that it's a sudoku with 0 solutions, and they all die.

If oyu want to make it about solving a Sudoku, how about some people are trappled inside a giant 3d alpha-numeric Sudoku and they have to solve it, but they cant see an overview of the whole grid (because they are inside), they have to crawl around the rooms to find the rooms that have a clue filled in, and make a note of it building it a picture of the grid as they go along, and the twist at the end it that it's a sudoku with 0 solutions, and they all die.

- Lc3
**Posts:**1**Joined:**01 July 2005

17 posts
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