The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[MadOverlord]

Sudoku Susser is a FREE Mac-oriented program that helps you learn how to solve Sudoku puzzles. A PC version is also available, but since I don't have a PC, it's compiled from the Mac version automatically and may have some rough edges (also, since I don't have a commercial RealBasic license, the PC version only runs for 5 minutes at a time).

Details and a download link here:

http://www.madoverlord.com/projects/sudoku.t

Features include:

* Easy to read display of Sudokus

* Hint mode shows remaining possibilities for each square.

* 10-rule deductive solver (including such techniques as Nishio, Fishy Cycles and Simple Forcing Chains) that can crack almost all non-guess Sudokus.

* You can single step through a puzzle and get detailed explanations of each step.

* Drag and drop graphic and text puzzles from all the major newspaper websites and forums like this one right into the app; no more typing in puzzles.

* Drag puzzles from the app in both simple and detailed text form and as graphic images.

* Maintains a list of your favorite puzzles.

* Displays puzzles in XY or RC format.

* Full Undo/Redo capability.

As I said, it's free, but if you feel like paying, that's fine too; I'll spend the money on getting a commercial RealBasic license so I can better support the Windows users.

Just to give you an idea of some of the silly nice things the program can do, here's the June 10th Timesonline Sudoku, dragged from their webpage into Sudoku Susser, and then back out as a large annotated text display:

Code: Select all

+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| ##### . 1 2 5 . ##### | 5 6   . # #   . 1 5 6 | 1 2 6 . 1 2 9 . ##### |
| #   # . 6     .     # |       . # #   . 9     | 9     .       .     # |
| ##### .       .  #### |       . ##### .       |       .       .     # |
| #   # .       .     # |       .   #   .       |       .       .     # |
| ##### .       . ##### |       .   #   .       |       .       .     # |
|.......................|.......................|.......................|
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| 1 6   . ##### . 1 6 7 | 6 8   . 7 8   . ##### | 1 3 6 . 1 3 4 . ##### |
|       . #   # .       |       .       .     # |       .       . #     |
|       . ##### .       |       .       . ##### |       .       . ##### |
|       .     # .       |       .       . #     |       .       .     # |
|       .     # .       |       .       . ##### |       .       . ##### |
|.......................|.......................|.......................|
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| 1 2 5 . 1 2 4 . 1 2 5 | 5 6   . 7 9   . ##### | ##### . 1 2 4 . 1 4 6 |
| 6     . 5 6 7 . 6 7   |       .       .     # | #   # . 9     . 9     |
|       .       .       |       .       .  #### | ##### .       .       |
|       .       .       |       .       .     # | #   # .       .       |
|       .       .       |       .       . ##### | ##### .       .       |
+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| ##### . 1 2 3 . # #   | 2 3 8 . ##### . 8 9   | 1 3 9 . 1 3 5 . 1 3 9 |
|     # . 5 8   . # #   |       . #     .       |       . 8 9   .       |
|     # .       . ##### |       . ##### .       |       .       .       |
|     # .       .   #   |       . #   # .       |       .       .       |
|     # .       .   #   |       . ##### .       |       .       .       |
|.......................|.......................|.......................|
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| 2 3 5 . 2 3 5 . 2 5 6 |   #   . 2 3 7 . # #   | 3 6 7 . 3 5 7 . 3 6 9 |
| 6     . 6 8   . 9     |   #   . 8 9   . # #   | 9     . 8 9   .       |
|       .       .       |   #   .       . ##### |       .       .       |
|       .       .       |   #   .       .   #   |       .       .       |
|       .       .       |   #   .       .   #   |       .       .       |
|.......................|.......................|.......................|
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| 1 3 6 . 1 3 6 . 1 6 9 | 3 8   . ##### . 7 8 9 | # #   . 1 3 7 . ##### |
|       . 8     .       |       . #     .       | # #   . 8 9   .     # |
|       .       .       |       . ##### .       | ##### .       . ##### |
|       .       .       |       .     # .       |   #   .       . #     |
|       .       .       |       . ##### .       |   #   .       . ##### |
+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| 1 2 3 . 1 2 3 . ##### | ##### . 2 3   . 5 6   | 1 2 3 . 1 2 3 . 1 3 4 |
| 5 6   . 5 6 7 . #   # | #   # .       .       | 7     . 4 7   .       |
|       .       . ##### | ##### .       .       |       .       .       |
|       .       . #   # |     # .       .       |       .       .       |
|       .       . ##### |     # .       .       |       .       .       |
|.......................|.......................|.......................|
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| # #   . 1 2 3 . 1 2 5 | ##### . 2 3 8 . 5 8   | 1 2 3 . ##### . 1 3 9 |
| # #   . 5     .       |     # .       .       | 9     . #     .       |
| ##### .       .       |     # .       .       |       . ##### .       |
|   #   .       .       |     # .       .       |       . #   # .       |
|   #   .       .       |     # .       .       |       . ##### .       |
|.......................|.......................|.......................|
|       .       .       |       .       .       |       .       .       |
| ##### . 2 3 6 . 2 6 7 | 2 3 4 .   #   . 6     | ##### . 2 3 4 . ##### |
| #   # . 7     .       | 6     .   #   .       | #     . 7     . #   # |
| ##### .       .       |       .   #   .       | ##### .       . ##### |
|     # .       .       |       .   #   .       |     # .       . #   # |
|     # .       .       |       .   #   .       | ##### .       . ##### |
+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+


[tso]

Downloaded this yesterday -- it's my new favorite toy.

First off, there no longer is any time limit on Windows use.

Second, there's LOTS this program can do, but the thing I found most eye-popping is that it will convert GRAPHIC IMAGES of puzzles into TEXT!

For example, in 30 seconds, I did a screen grab of "sudoku.com", pasted the image to Paint Shop Pro, cropped, saved it as a JPG. Then I dragged the JPG into the Susser -- poof, there it was. I then saved it as text:

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------+
| . 6 . | 1 . 4 | . 5 . |
| . . 8 | 3 . 5 | 6 . . |
| 2 . . | . . . | . . 1 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 8 . . | 4 . 7 | . . 6 |
| . . 6 | . . . | 3 . . |
| 7 . . | 9 . 1 | . . 4 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . . | . . . | . . 2 |
| . . 7 | 2 . 6 | 9 . . |
| . 4 . | 5 . 8 | . 7 . |
+-------+-------+-------+

Thank you, MadOverlord!

[MadOverlord]

Second, there's LOTS this program can do, but the thing I found most eye-popping is that it will convert GRAPHIC IMAGES of puzzles into TEXT!

Yeah, the graphic recognition is pretty nifty. A good "clip from the screen" app (such as snapNDrag for the Mac) helps in those cases where the puzzles are composed of seperate subgraphics; otherwise you can drag them from just about anywhere.

The latest sleazy addition, which you'll see in 1.2.9 this weekend, is that the big text version of the puzzles (as in my prior posting) can now be dragged right back into the program. A truly sadistic user -- who shall remain nameless if he coughs up some cash -- complained that he couldn't do that.

Also upcoming in 1.2.9:

* Arrow keys now move hilight cursor around the puzzle (mousing into a square moves the cursor to that square). Home moves to top-left square, End to bottom-right square.

* Invalid squares in puzzle now hilighted with a big ugly black X on a jarring red background.

* Options -> Hints -> Emphasize Invalid Squares lets you decide whether you like the big ugly black X on a jarring red background.

[tso]

So far, I'm unable to make the big text diagrams running under Windows.

edit: Oh, yes I am. Hold down the ALT key, drag to an open wordpad.

[dukuso]

For example, in 30 seconds, I did a screen grab of "sudoku.com", pasted the image to Paint Shop Pro, cropped, saved it as a JPG. Then I dragged the JPG into the Susser -- poof, there it was.

hmm, you did all this in 30 sec. ?
I don't think this would be faster for me than just typing in the clues.

It could be useful for larger puzzles or getting several puzzles at once,
though.

[MadOverlord]

I don't think this would be faster for me than just typing in the clues.

It could be useful for larger puzzles or getting several puzzles at once,
though.

In most cases, you can drag a puzzle right off a webpage into the app, with no messing around with an intermediate image application.

As long as the sudoku is displayed as a single image on the webpage (as it is on most major newspapers, and most sudoku sites), you can drag it right into Susser.

You can even do stuff like drag sudokus from webpages into a folder, and then drag the folder into the Susser to load them all.

If the puzzle is displayed as a HTML table instead of a graphic, you can often select the table as text and drag it in. Text puzzles like you'll see on forums like this one are no problem either -- it automatically recognizes the puzzle inside borders or ascii ornamentation.

The only time you need a screen-grab type app is when the puzzle is composed of multiple graphic elements or embedded in a flash app.

The Susser usually takes about 10-15 seconds to analyze and extract the sudoku from a graphic.

[tso]

I just went to Daily Sudoku, right-clicked on the grahic image, copied it, and pasted it directly into the Susser. Maybe 10 seconds all told. And no worrying about typos.

[PaulIQ164]

It's incredible! I just went to TimesOnline to try a sudoku from there with it. I found the Su Doku page, but because they have three puzzles a day now, they just had one big picture with all three puzzles in a column. I dragged it in anyway, and it recognised that there were three puzzles there and loaded all of them in!

Edit: is there a way to get rid of those little black triangles in the corners of the cells? They're a tad annoying.

[MadOverlord]

Is there a way to get rid of those little black triangles in the corners of the cells? They're a tad annoying.

They are part of the user interface; they mark the fact that the square has a popup menu attached.

However, I did a little checking and it turns out that I can activate and deactivate them as you move the mouse over squares, so now you'll only see them on the square the mouse is currently hovering over (if any).

Tweak will be available in 1.2.9, out this weekend.

[tso]

It's incredible! I just went to TimesOnline to try a sudoku from there with it. ...

I just tried the same thing -- that's really impressive. Also impressive and/or unfortunate is that the Susser solves the Fiendish puzzles using only ONE of it's 11 logical rules -- pinned squares.

[PaulIQ164]

Er... no it doesn't. Pinned squares are just the very simple "this cell can only be x" or "the 7 in this row can only be in cell y" deductions. You can't, and it doesn't, solve fiendishes using just those.

[MadOverlord]

Er... no it doesn't. Pinned squares are just the very simple "this cell can only be x" or "the 7 in this row can only be in cell y" deductions. You can't, and it doesn't, solve fiendishes using just those.

Actually, the most recent fiendish, at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,18209-1750128,00.html

can be solved with only pins and direct forces.

Here is the puzzle and solution log:

Code: Select all

The Times-223304 #3
+-------+-------+-------+
| 8 . . | . . 6 | . . 9 |
| . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . |
| . 1 4 | 2 9 . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 4 . . | . . . | 8 1 . |
| . 2 . | . . . | . 7 . |
| . 8 6 | . . . | . . 2 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . 3 5 | 9 4 . |
| . 3 . | 6 . . | . . . |
| 9 . . | 1 . . | . . 7 |
+-------+-------+-------+

Deduction pass 1; 26 squares solved; 55 remaining.

* R1C3 is the only square in row 1 that can be a <2>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 2; 27 squares solved; 54 remaining.

* R1C7 is the only square in row 1 that can be a <4>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 3; 28 squares solved; 53 remaining.

* R1C5 is the only square in row 1 that can be a <1>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 4; 29 squares solved; 52 remaining.

* R7C1 is the only square in row 7 that can be a <2>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 5; 30 squares solved; 51 remaining.

* R8C5 is the only square in row 8 that can be a <4>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 6; 31 squares solved; 50 remaining.

* R6C4 is the only square in row 6 that can be a <4>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 7; 32 squares solved; 49 remaining.

* R5C9 is the only square in row 5 that can be a <4>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 8; 33 squares solved; 48 remaining.

* R8C6 is the only square in row 8 that can be a <9>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 9; 34 squares solved; 47 remaining.

* R6C8 is the only square in row 6 that can be a <9>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 10; 35 squares solved; 46 remaining.

* R8C7 is the only square in row 8 that can be a <2>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 11; 36 squares solved; 45 remaining.

* R9C2 is the only square in row 9 that can be a <4>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 12; 37 squares solved; 44 remaining.

* R2C7 is the only square in column 7 that can be a <1>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 13; 38 squares solved; 43 remaining.

* R3C7 is the only square in column 7 that can be a <7>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 14; 39 squares solved; 42 remaining.

* R7C2 is the only square in block 7 that can be a <6>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 15; 40 squares solved; 41 remaining.

* R7C4 is the only square in block 8 that can be a <7>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 16; 41 squares solved; 40 remaining.

* R1C2 is the only square in row 1 that can be a <7>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

Deduction pass 17; 42 squares solved; 39 remaining.

* R2C5 is the only square in row 2 that can be a <7>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

From this deduction, the following moves are immediately forced:

   R6C5 must be <5>.
   R6C7 must be <3>.

Deduction pass 18; 45 squares solved; 36 remaining.

* R9C8 is the only square in row 9 that can be a <3>.  It is thus pinned to that value.

From this deduction, the following moves are immediately forced:

   R1C8 must be <5>.
   R1C4 must be <3>.
   R8C8 must be <8>.
   R3C8 must be <6>.
   R7C9 must be <1>.
   R4C4 must be <9>.
   R3C6 must be <8>.
   R9C6 must be <2>.
   R2C4 must be <5>.
   R3C9 must be <3>.
   R3C1 must be <5>.
   R2C9 must be <8>.
   R4C2 must be <5>.
   R5C4 must be <8>.
   R5C5 must be <6>.
   R5C7 must be <5>.
   R4C5 must be <2>.
   R9C7 must be <6>.
   R4C9 must be <6>.
   R7C3 must be <8>.
   R8C9 must be <5>.
   R9C5 must be <8>.
   R2C2 must be <9>.
   R9C3 must be <5>.
   R2C3 must be <3>.
   R2C1 must be <6>.
   R4C3 must be <7>.
   R4C6 must be <3>.
   R8C3 must be <1>.
   R6C1 must be <1>.
   R5C6 must be <1>.
   R5C1 must be <3>.
   R5C3 must be <9>.
   R6C6 must be <7>.
   R8C1 must be <7>.

Deduction pass 19; 81 squares solved; 0 remaining.

Solution found!

Deduction completed...



[PaulIQ164]

Well maybe so, but it's a one-off and hardly warrants the conclusion that it "solves the Fiendish puzzles using only ONE of it's 11 logical rules." And in any case, this is surely a property of the puzzles and not of the solver, and would be equally true for that one puzzle of any other solver. (For example, sudoku.sourceforge.net also solves that puzzle using only its equivalent technique, "Single Sector Candidates".)

[MadOverlord]

Well maybe so, but it's a one-off and hardly warrants the conclusion that it "solves the Fiendish puzzles using only ONE of it's 11 logical rules."

I wasn't implying that it was, just that the most recent one is solvable by pins and forces.

And in any case, this is surely a property of the puzzles and not of the solver, and would be equally true for that one puzzle of any other solver.

Yes, that's clearly the case. I make no special claims for the Susser in regards solving, except that AFAIK it is the only publically-available app that can deductively solve all known puzzles.

[PaulIQ164]

Oh yes, I entirely agree. I just thought that the way tso's post was written implied that it could solve most/all Fiendishes using just that one technique. Maybe I'm reading too much intt things. Anyway, it's a great program whatever.