Su Doku Championships

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Su Doku Championships

Postby shakers » Fri May 20, 2005 1:44 pm

Just reading the Times article about this (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1611106,00.html) and it includes Wayne's comment about the hardest Su Doku not being solvable to save your life (literally in his example!)

We know there are solving techniques which WG appears to view as non-logic, which I'm happy to go along with although these are debated by others.

What I wonder is firstly whether the championship puzzle WG will set will conform to all his usual rules of symmetry, being solvable by (what he considers) logic, etc?

Secondly, assuming it will conform to the standard rules, is it possible for it to be any harder than a 'Very Hard' from the program without running into the realms of T&E?
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Postby Pappocom » Fri May 20, 2005 4:33 pm

LOL ... the old couldn't-solve-it-to-save-your-life puzzle.:)

Mind you, the claim was that you couldn't solve it overnight, not that you couldn't solve it ever. And of course, when that claim was made, I didn't anticipate people writing their own solvers. I don't suppose someone on deathrow would actually be allowed access to a Sudoku-solving computer, anyway.

And the other thing (rather glossed over in the claim) was that I assumed our man on deathrow would have to prove to the guard how he solved the puzzle with logic. Clearly, if he was allowed to guess and just present a solution, he might save his neck after all.

The puzzle at The Times Champs will be a standard puzzle produced by my Sudoku program.

Within any grade-level, however, there is range of difficulty. For example, not all Easy puzzles are identically easy. Some are easier than others, some are harder than the rest.

Details have yet to be finalized, but the puzzle for the final at the Champs could well be hand-selected, as a truly fiendish Fiendish. The puzzle is likely to be a Hard (ie., Fiendish) puzzle, not a Very Hard puzzle. It would not be fair to throw regular Times solvers something they had never experienced before.

- Wayne
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Postby Animator » Fri May 20, 2005 4:57 pm

Pappocom wrote:LOL ... the old couldn't-solve-it-to-save-your-life puzzle. :)

Mind you, the claim was that you couldn't solve it overnight, not that you couldn't solve it ever.


Well, that all depends... if it is his first puzzle then ofcourse the change that his able to solve it is very little...

But if he is used to them, and did some of the more complex ones (beyond swordfish that is) then he might be able to do it...

But I would guess that he would needs lots of paper :)
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Junior Championships

Postby george-no1 » Fri May 20, 2005 6:22 pm

I am 14 and I would like to know if there is going to be a Junior Su Doku Championships because I would certainly be interested! I did my first Fiendish in 45 minutes and I'm sure I could improve on that a lot if I did a few more!

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Postby lunababy_moonchild » Fri May 20, 2005 6:29 pm

Read the article Shakers has linked in his post : " There will also be a Su Doku junior competition. Hundreds of schools round the country now use Su Doku in lessons."

Jings, Crivvens, help ma boab:D

What I wanna know is : will these puzzles be solved using paper and pencil or on computer?

Luna
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Postby lunababy_moonchild » Fri May 20, 2005 6:30 pm

I also wanna know : who's thinking of entering?

Luna
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Postby Guest » Sun May 29, 2005 1:05 pm

I'd definitely like to have a bash. I think it's a great idea.
Wayne, when are we likely to know the format of the competition and how we can enter?
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Postby Pappocom » Sun May 29, 2005 4:13 pm

It's being organised by The Times ... in co-operation with Mind Olympics possibly. I don't know much about the organisation, at this stage. I will be supplying the puzzles and I expect to be there at the event.

- Wayne
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Postby Guest » Sun May 29, 2005 7:49 pm

Wayne - if you have input into organisation of the competition then a few suggestions (others may offer more):

1. should there be just 1 puzzle or say 3 to ensure fairness in grading across various competitors - i.e to avoid the fluke label. After all a real champion should have some level of time consistency in solving a number of fiendish puzzles.

2. winner be required to prove the logical steps to ensure only logic, the mainstay of your puzzles, was used. i.e to avoid someone choosing a path of solution based on one of a possible 2 occupants of a cell.

3. Should pencil marks be allowed on the puzzle? How many? Does that give an unfair advantage? Should there an added incentive for those preferring to use virtual pencil marks - eg time reduction for added elegance?

Cheers
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