The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[stuartn]

Sorry didn't reply earlier - had to find a blue shirt. QB - we'll presume you were drunk when you wrote your missive. Either that or you really do need to consider moving to the Yahoo Sudoku group...... that's where we send people like you.

[angusj]

Either that or you really do need to consider moving to the Yahoo Sudoku group...... that's where we send people like you.

Now that's a bit below the belt. A bit of a ribbing is fine but kicking a guy when he's down is unnecessary.

Edit: Sorry for mixing metaphors.

[Karyobin]

Doesn't sound like he's down to me. Just bewildered.

[QBasicMac]

Well, I glean from the responses I got that I was wrong in my assumption that you were being cryptic due to personality defects, but instead you actually think people like it that way and you mistakenly believe you are being helpful.

I would request a poll, but obviously regulars on a forum like this are of like mind and non-regulars could not speak for themselves.

But I venture to guess that it REALLY frustrates people who come here seldomly (or who come via Google for the first time) and who have come here because they are stuck.

It is my belief that replies such as "And look at the candidate 5's in block 7 - are they restricted to a particular row? - what does this imply?" does not "teach" anything. It just annoys the hell out of the person with the problem who already is desparate, otherwise he wouldn't come here in the first place.

I believe one learns better by direct answers. And some things one is not trying to "learn".

It is as if I have misplaced my eyeglasses (I am 69 and can forget stuff easier than before) and so I ask my wife to help me find them. I don't want a vague hint (especially using jargon), I want an exact answer. "They are on top of the refrigerator". I don't know how giving me vague hints will help me learn anything.

Anyway, I am sorry for my misplaced assumptions about your motives. I now see you are a bunch of nice people who have convinced yourselves that people want hints, not answers. I disagree.

Su Doku Solvers: I have a challenge for you: See if you can answer questions without any "naked chicken-wing sailfish" jargon whatsoever and in such a manner that it is impossible that the questioner will fail to get it. Nice answers such as "You can assign r3c7=9 since ...." or "You can eliminate candidate 7 from r2c5 and r5c5 since ...."

Mac

[Karyobin]

but instead you actually think people like it that way and you mistakenly believe you are being helpful.

Well yes, people keep coming back don't they?

obviously regulars on a forum like this are of like mind and non-regulars could not speak for themselves.

Marvellous logic - no-one concurred your point of view, so that in itself implies that there are loads of people out there who agree with you!

I venture to guess that it REALLY frustrates people

On what grounds?

It is my belief

Important point, that.

I believe one learns better by direct answers.

No Mac, YOU do.

"They are on top of the refrigerator"

Why?!

who have convinced yourselves that people want hints

No, it's the people who come here and say "just give me a hint please". That's what convinced us.

without any "naked chicken-wing sailfish" jargon

If you don't like jargon, why are you posting in Solving Techniques? Jargon enables us to use two words where fifty would only confuse.

Sorry Mac, but there's no excuse for presumption and being offensive (which you're still defending, even now). If you want specific help, ask. We have all learned that most posters want hints, not answers. And finally, the jargon is easy to get a handle on, just read about it rather than whinging.

"Never assume anything, except an occasional air of intelligence." (Name that quote, anyone!)

[9X9]

Mac - I hope you will forgive me with an accepting smile if I say that your posts above bring to mind a recent and gently humourous (in our uniqely tongue in cheek British way and a lot of Aussies have their roots here too) TV interview series in this overwhelmingly tolerant part of the planet, namely Grumpy Old Men.

Lest you accuse me of prejudice, I am a retired professional with impeccable credentials, now an artist and an author with (truly) only blue shirts to my name, and in the same age ball-park as you but perhaps more mindful that "what goes around comes around".

[QBasicMac]

Karyobin > No, it's the people who come here and say "just give me a hint please". That's what convinced us.

???

That should convince "us" that the implied assumption is that one wants an explicit answer and thus if one wants a hint, one will say so.

But I am not trying to defend a position or win a popularity contest. I am just trying to communicate an idea. I think that has been done sufficiently now, so I will shut up.


9X9 > age ball-park

LOL! When I first read your post, I thought "Wow! 9x9! This guy is 81 years old!

Then I finally saw (yeah, I'm slow) that 9x9 might be a reference to SuDoku grids.

In fact it would logically be that since nobody would actually use age in a name, having to change every year would be a drag.

Anyway, thanks for your reply. No offence taken, of course!

Your curmudgeon,

Mac

[stuartn]

Good man Mac. Stay with us .

stuartn

[MCC]

Talk about being spoon fed answers, maybe he should let a program do the puzzle for him.

Check out his website - it's in his profile.

[MCC]

I was so angry at Mac's rant I didn't realise there was a second page to this forum.

[Jeff]

.....(I am 69 and can forget stuff easier than before) .....

Age doesn't seem to have smoothed the sharp edges off the stubborn old rock. At least you are right about one thing, ie. forgetting stuff easily. Just to remind you of your own words, I extracted a couple posts that you have submitted on Sep 4th.

Hi, tso, Never mind, tso, I see it now.
Just a general question (you are not the only one):
Why do you guys always reply so cryptically?
Why not just say "r1c6 and r8c6 each have candidates 3 and 6, thus all other cells in column 6 cannot have either 3 or 6?"
Or, to use jargon, "r1c6 and r8c6 are a naked pair, thus eliminating 3 and 6 from other cells in column 6"
Something like that would be more helpful.
But not to byte the hand that feeds me, thanks very much. I simply did not see those two cells had the same candidates.
That was the problem that had me stumped for a day........

Well, this thread has been hijacked! LOL - I don't care - This is my last post in this thread.
Anyway, I see my question "I can't see any next move." was too vague. In the future, I will spell it out in more detail (plus get my pencilmarks right)
I'm sure this will make it more clear: "Please supply a detailed, exact solution, not a hint, that leads to the next candidate that can be eliminated." ...........

Here are the exact words of your post under this thread:

Working on an X-Tree example, I found the X-Tree and eliminated candidates. But I am still stuck.

Mac

Solution So Far
--- 13- --5
34- --5 2--
85- 9-2 ---
--- -5- 9--
--2 --- 4--
--3 -6- ---
--- -13 --6
-35 --- -1-
71- -28 ---

Pencilmarks So Far
269 2679 79 - - 467 678 4789 -
- - 1679 678 78 - - 79 179
- - 17 - 47 - 1367 347 1347
146 678 478 23478 - 147 - 23678 12378
1569 6789 - 378 789 179 - 35678 1378
1459 789 - 2478 - 1479 1578 2578 1278
249 289 489 457 - - 57 24579 -
246 - - 47 479 4679 78 - 2478
- - 469 456 - - 35 3459 349

Can you see it? Do you want some hints or want me to spell it out? In second thought, I am supposed to read your mind. So, I better spell it out.

less than a month ago, you admitted that your question "I can't see any next move." was too vague and in the future, you would spell it out in more details. You also suggested this: "I'm sure this will make it more clear: "Please supply a detailed, exact solution, not a hint, that leads to the next candidate that can be eliminated."

Just take a look at what you said this time. Did you spell out exactly what you wanted in more details? Short memory is your problem.

[Karyobin]

Whilst I realise that this is the last thing anyone here is going to expect me to say - shall we draw a veil over this now? You don't have to, of course, and if you've got something to get off your chest then continue by all means, it's just that I feel like I'm engaged in some sort of bloodsport.

[lunababy_moonchild]

I would request a poll, but obviously regulars on a forum like this are of like mind and non-regulars could not speak for themselves.

You know that comes across as really offensive. I can and do disagree with anybody and everybody on this Forum as and when I see fit so to do. The only thing we have in common here, regulars or not, is the puzzle.

It is my belief that replies such as "And look at the candidate 5's in block 7 - are they restricted to a particular row? - what does this imply?" does not "teach" anything. It just annoys the hell out of the person with the problem who already is desparate, otherwise he wouldn't come here in the first place.

I believe one learns better by direct answers. And some things one is not trying to "learn".

It is as if I have misplaced my eyeglasses (I am 69 and can forget stuff easier than before) and so I ask my wife to help me find them. I don't want a vague hint (especially using jargon), I want an exact answer. "They are on top of the refrigerator". I don't know how giving me vague hints will help me learn anything.

Finding your glasses requires a direct answer, solving a puzzle is entirely a different matter. Did it occur to you that hints are given simply to help you get over the hurdle you've encountered so far in the puzzle and thus enable you to solve the puzzle by yourself, as opposed to giving you the entire answer and thus spoiling the solving pleasure? It's like telling someone the ending of a book they have yet to finish or a film they have yet to see, it somewhat dissipates the enjoyment.

Anyway, I am sorry for my misplaced assumptions about your motives. I now see you are a bunch of nice people who have convinced yourselves that people want hints, not answers. I disagree.

Su Doku Solvers: I have a challenge for you: See if you can answer questions without any "naked chicken-wing sailfish" jargon whatsoever and in such a manner that it is impossible that the questioner will fail to get it. Nice answers such as "You can assign r3c7=9 since ...." or "You can eliminate candidate 7 from r2c5 and r5c5 since ...."

Mac

Perhaps, in future, should you require some help (good luck with that by the way!), may I suggest you state that you'd like a straight answer, in plain english and jargon free, and then the regulars on this Forum will know what your requirements are without the need to make assumptions such as: all that you require is a hint.


Luna

[MCC]

"Never assume anything, except an occasional air of intelligence." (Name that quote, anyone!)

[The Sheriff of Nottingham and Sir Guy of Gisburne in Alan A Dale]
Sheriff: "Why on earth did I agree to be united in the unholy bounds of matrimony with a pansy-face sixteen year old virgin? That is - if she is still a virgin, of course. Do you think it is worth the money, Gisburne? Could it possibly be worth ten thousand marks?"..."Why don't you answer?"
Gisburne: "I assumed the question was rethorical, my lord."
Sheriff: "Never assume anything, Gisburne, except an occasional air of intelligence!"

What do I win?

[Karyobin]

Kudos. Prestige. High regard. Interminable respect.

Nice one, there's not many of us left. Nothing's forgotten.