Shall I just add the word Ring?

Advanced methods and approaches for solving Sudoku puzzles

Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:34 pm

How would you name this (if even valid)?
I'm in the process of updating the Strong links algorithm to support rings
This effectively should catch any fish with a 2x2x … (size of fish) configuration

I'm thinking of adding the word ring at the end :idea:

Code: Select all
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 6    139  8    | 7    19   2    |349-1 5   *149  |
| 7    19   2    | 3    4    5    | 8   *19   6    |
| 139  4    5    | 6    8    19   | 7   *139  2    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 8    139  4    | 2    6    13   | 39-1 7    5    |
| 5    6    13   | 9    13   7    | 2    4    8    |
|39-1  2    7    | 4    5    8    | 6   *139 *19   |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 234  7    6    | 1    239  39   | 5    8    49   |
| 14   8    9    | 5    7    6    | 14   2    3    |
| 123  5    13   | 8    239  4    | 19   6    7    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
Grouped skycraper 1:c89 link  b3 r14c7,r6c1<>1
OR:
Franken X-wing: 1c89\b3b6 r14c7<>1
Mutant X-wing: 1c89\r6b3 r1c7,r6c1<>1


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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby creint » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:51 pm

Double locked singles or something like that, it's an inverse of pointing pairs in c7. For hexadoku it can be a strategy because it can scale.
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:40 pm

creint wrote:Double locked singles or something like that, it's an inverse of pointing pairs in c7. For hexadoku it can be a strategy because it can scale.
I may have needed to give you a better example. The logic however still holds.

I'm going to post a few of these grouped rings/cycles. I also have a theory that if we include grouped links into UFG fish that we are going to find even more elusive fish & some in the nofish section!
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby 1to9only » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:40 pm

Single Ladies.

"Beyonce - Single Ladies (Put a Ring on it)"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:56 pm

1to9only wrote:Single Ladies.

"Beyonce - Single Ladies (Put a Ring on it)"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll put a ring on it (Oh, oh, oh … Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh)!
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby SpAce » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:54 pm

Hi tarek,

tarek wrote:How would you name this (if even valid)?

Code: Select all
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 6    139  8    | 7    19   2    |349-1 5   *149  |
| 7    19   2    | 3    4    5    | 8   *19   6    |
| 139  4    5    | 6    8    19   | 7   *139  2    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 8    139  4    | 2    6    13   | 39-1 7    5    |
| 5    6    13   | 9    13   7    | 2    4    8    |
|39-1  2    7    | 4    5    8    | 6   *139 *19   |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 234  7    6    | 1    239  39   | 5    8    49   |
| 14   8    9    | 5    7    6    | 14   2    3    |
| 123  5    13   | 8    239  4    | 19   6    7    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+

Grouped skycraper 1:c89 link b3 r14c7,r6c1<>1

The shape is that of a Grouped Skyscraper, but without further qualifications it's not an ideal name because it's hard to associate with a loop (since it's not normally used in a single chute). I guess that's exactly your point.

(1)r1c9 = r6c9 - r6c8 = (1)r23c8 - loop => -1 r14c7,r6c1

I don't really know what to call that, except an X-Loop. Were you planning to call it "Grouped Skyscraper Ring"? A bit awkward, but I guess that would be technically correct, if "Ring" is generally used for patternized loops. By that logic, X-Wing should really be X-Ring, while non-looping Turbot Fishes would be more logically X-Wings (though not conforming with the 3-strong-link rule, but those are already L1-Wings).

Franken X-wing: 1c89\b3b6 r14c7<>1
Mutant X-wing: 1c89\r6b3 r1c7,r6c1<>1

To get all eliminations at once:

Siamese Mutant X-Wing:

(1)C89\b3[r6|b6] => -1 r14c7,r6c1
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:23 am

Better example
Code: Select all
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 1   *45   8    |24-5  3    9    |*57   27   6    |
| 67   3   *2567 | 8    1256 125  | 4    1259 29   |
| 46   9   *25   | 2456 1256 7    | 8    125  3    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 3    7    4    | 259  8    25   | 29   6    1    |
| 5    8    69   | 1    26   3    | 29   4    7    |
| 69   2    1    | 69   7    4    | 3    8    5    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 8    145  9-5  | 7    1245 125  | 6    3    29   |
| 479  145  3    | 25   1245 6    |*57   29   8    |
| 2    6   *57   | 3    9    8    | 1   *57   4    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby SpAce » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:17 am

tarek wrote:Better example
Code: Select all
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 1   *45   8    |24-5  3    9    |*57   27   6    |
| 67   3   *2567 | 8    1256 125  | 4    1259 29   |
| 46   9   *25   | 2456 1256 7    | 8    125  3    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 3    7    4    | 259  8    25   | 29   6    1    |
| 5    8    69   | 1    26   3    | 29   4    7    |
| 69   2    1    | 69   7    4    | 3    8    5    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 8    145  9-5  | 7    1245 125  | 6    3    29   |
| 479  145  3    | 25   1245 6    |*57   29   8    |
| 2    6   *57   | 3    9    8    | 1   *57   4    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+

I'd just call it simply Grouped X-Loop. Or perhaps Grouped L1-Ring. I think "Ring" should be reserved for specific well-defined and short looping patterns, especially ones that would otherwise be Wings. The term loses meaning if every non-descript loop is suddenly a ring, similar to if every Rank 1 chain were called a wing.

(In Nice Loop terms that would be a Continuous Grouped X-Cycle, but we don't want to mix in that terminology.)
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:09 am

How about grouped 3 Strong link Loop?
Code: Select all
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 7    48   36   | 5    36   2    | 49   89   1    |
| 5    468  1    | 7    9    468  | 46   2    3    |
| 3468 9    2    |348-6 1    3468 | 5    68   7    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 68   5678 9    | 2    67   456  | 3    1   *46   |
| 2    3    4    |*69   8    1    |*679 *679  5    |
| 1    567  56   |49-6  367  3456 | 8    49-6  2   |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 9    1    7    | 38   5   *368  | 2    34-6 *46  |
| 36   2    8    |*136  4    7    | 16   5    9    |
| 346  456  356  |*136  2    9    | 167  367  8    |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
Mutant Swordfish 6r5cb8\r7c4b8 r36c4, r68c8<>6
grouped 3 Strong link Loop
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby SpAce » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:45 pm

tarek wrote:How about grouped 3 Strong link Loop?

That makes no sense, sorry. It's not descriptive or specific at all, and it's actually very confusing. For example, M-Ring could be called that as well, because it has three strong links (possibly including grouped ones) and it's a loop. Furthermore, if that term is only used for single-digit loops, it promotes the false idea some people have that only local strong links are called strong links. Please don't do that (in general).

Why would you want such a weird term that no one uses or intuitively understands anyhow? Everyone knows what X-Chains/Loops mean, and even the more specific but unknown L1-Ring is logically deducible if one knows the naming logic of the one-letter-wings.
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:51 pm

I need to include the number of strong links. I agree that X-Loops is probably best. "X-Loop with 3 strong links" or "3 strong links X-Loop" should be descriptive and specific :lol:

Thank by the way on the help in naming these … This what is going to go into the next release of Sukaku Explainer.

Here is a treat for all the help
Code: Select all
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 6     25    4     | 7     1     29    | 8     359   359   |
| 7     8     9     | 3     4     5     | 1     2     6     |
| 1     25    3     | 289   6     289   | 459   459   7     |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 49    1     2     | 49    5     3     | 7     6     8     |
| 3     47-9  6     | 48-9 *789   1     |*459  *459   2     |
| 5     479   8     | 469   2     4679  | 3     1    *49    |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 8     6     1     |*459   3    *49    | 2     7    *459   |
| 2     49    7     | 1568 *89    468-9 | 459   3459  1345-9|
| 49    3     5     |124-9 *79    247-9 | 6     8     14-9  |
+-------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
mutant swordfish 9r7c5b6\r5c9b8 r189c9,r5c24,r8c6,r9c46<>9
Grouped X-Loop with 3 strong links
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby SpAce » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:32 pm

tarek wrote:I need to include the number of strong links. I agree that X-Loops is probably best. "X-Loop with 3 strong links" or "3 strong links X-Loop" should be descriptive and specific :lol:

It is indeed the most easily understood, but it's also quite verbose. I would still suggest L1-Ring as the short name for the same. It contains the exact same amount of information in less than third of the space.

I thought you agreed earlier to using L1-Wing as the logical family name for X-Chains with 3 strong links. If that's still true, L1-Ring would be the obvious short name for X-Loops with 3 strong links. Right? It's exact, short, elegant, and a bit tricky, which makes it fun. I should have originally included that in the one-letter-wing family as the second loop-capable wing type (besides M-Ring (<-> S-Ring)), but it slipped my mind.

Here is a treat for all the help
...
mutant swordfish 9r7c5b6\r5c9b8 r189c9,r5c24,r8c6,r9c46<>9
Grouped X-Loop with 3 strong links[/code]

Very nice pattern! "Grouped L1-Ring" is still 55% shorter :)
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Re: Shall I just add the word Ring?

Postby tarek » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:56 pm

There is no problem in saying "L1 ring". Sukaku explainer has a Hint window that explains the deduction which can elaborate further of the terms and fish equivalence.
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