The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **simon_blow_snow** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:14 pm

tarek

I tried to convert my 2 solution grids into your 2 canonical grids via "isomorph transformation" (band/stack/row/column swapping etc). But I cannot get the first one (the one I used for my avatar) to match either of yours. It seems neither of your 2 grids covers one feature of my 1st solution grid: FOUR out of 6 pairing of attributes produce a Sudoku grid (SQ-X, in-out, SQ-out, in-X).

Perhaps your software can generate a canonical grid with that feature?

I think my 2nd solution grid can be converted into your 1st canonical grid, but am too busy to do it manually. Do you have a program to "canonicalize" any given setdoku grid? If so could you canonicalize both my solution grids and tell me the results? Thanks!

by **tarek** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:55 pm

I tried 2

simon_blow_snow wrote:It seems neither of your 2 grids covers one feature of my 1st solution grid: FOUR out of 6 pairing of attributes produce a Sudoku grid (SQ-X, in-out, SQ-out, in-X).
Perhaps your software can generate a canonical grid with that feature

i have made Setdokus with 2 sudoku grids & 6 grids & not 4 (This should be easy to do). The 6 sudokus version will always have 1 of the attributes matching with the rest all different. So there is No all different sets version from it.

The canonicalizer is on the agenda. If you are canonicalizing remember the relabelling issue you have 4 attributes that can be relabelled to produce a "1111" symbol.

The sudoku grids canicalizing is a good idea? You have to canonicalize each grid Isolate the most canonical of these canonical grids. if 2 solution grids do non identical most canonical grid then they are not isomorphic.

will produce some results later.

tarek

by **tarek** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:27 pm

Here the results for the most canonical grids. I've included all 6 sudoku grids. The 2 sudokus version should be line 1 & 6, the 4 sudokus version should be lines 1,2,5 & 6
The most canonical grid is the same even if you remove the Maxi row/column set restriction

Code: Select all: Most Canonical No Maxi Row/Column 2 sudoku grids 147A 157B 167C 248A 258B 268C 349A 359B 369C 248B 258C 268A 349B 359C 369A 147B 157C 167A 349C 359A 369B 147C 157A 167B 248C 258A 268B 158A 168B 148C 259A 269B 249C 357A 367B 347C 259B 269C 249A 357B 367C 347A 158B 168C 148A 357C 367A 347B 158C 168A 148B 259C 269A 249B 169A 149B 159C 267A 247B 257C 368A 348B 358C 267B 247C 257A 368B 348C 358A 169B 149C 159A 368C 348A 358B 169C 149A 159B 267C 247A 257B 1111 1212 1313 2121 2222 2323 3131 3232 3333 2122 2223 2321 3132 3233 3331 1112 1213 1311 3133 3231 3332 1113 1211 1312 2123 2221 2322 1221 1322 1123 2231 2332 2133 3211 3312 3113 2232 2333 2131 3212 3313 3111 1222 1323 1121 3213 3311 3112 1223 1321 1122 2233 2331 2132 1331 1132 1233 2311 2112 2213 3321 3122 3223 2312 2113 2211 3322 3123 3221 1332 1133 1231 3323 3121 3222 1333 1131 1232 2313 2111 2212 123456789456789123789123456231564897564897231897231564312645978645978312978312645 111555999555999111999111555222666777666777222777222666333444888444888333888333444 123456789564897231978312645123456789564897231978312645123456789564897231978312645 147258369258369147369147258582693471693471582471582693936714825714825936825936714 159159159267267267348348348483483483591591591672672672726726726834834834915915915 123456789564897231978312645456789123897231564312645978789123456231564897645978312 Most Canonical with Maxi Row/Column 2 sudoku grids 147A 157B 167C 248A 258B 268C 349A 359B 369C 248B 258C 268A 349B 359C 369A 147B 157C 167A 349C 359A 369B 147C 157A 167B 248C 258A 268B 158A 168B 148C 259A 269B 249C 357A 367B 347C 259B 269C 249A 357B 367C 347A 158B 168C 148A 357C 367A 347B 158C 168A 148B 259C 269A 249B 169A 149B 159C 267A 247B 257C 368A 348B 358C 267B 247C 257A 368B 348C 358A 169B 149C 159A 368C 348A 358B 169C 149A 159B 267C 247A 257B 1111 1212 1313 2121 2222 2323 3131 3232 3333 2122 2223 2321 3132 3233 3331 1112 1213 1311 3133 3231 3332 1113 1211 1312 2123 2221 2322 1221 1322 1123 2231 2332 2133 3211 3312 3113 2232 2333 2131 3212 3313 3111 1222 1323 1121 3213 3311 3112 1223 1321 1122 2233 2331 2132 1331 1132 1233 2311 2112 2213 3321 3122 3223 2312 2113 2211 3322 3123 3221 1332 1133 1231 3323 3121 3222 1333 1131 1232 2313 2111 2212 123456789456789123789123456231564897564897231897231564312645978645978312978312645 111555999555999111999111555222666777666777222777222666333444888444888333888333444 123456789564897231978312645123456789564897231978312645123456789564897231978312645 147258369258369147369147258582693471693471582471582693936714825714825936825936714 159159159267267267348348348483483483591591591672672672726726726834834834915915915 123456789564897231978312645456789123897231564312645978789123456231564897645978312 Most Canonical No Maxi Row/Column 4 sudoku grids 147A 158A 169A 247B 258B 269B 347C 358C 369C 247C 258C 269C 347A 358A 369A 147B 158B 169B 347B 358B 369B 147C 158C 169C 247A 258A 269A 159A 167A 148A 259B 267B 248B 359C 367C 348C 259C 267C 248C 359A 367A 348A 159B 167B 148B 359B 367B 348B 159C 167C 148C 259A 267A 248A 168A 149A 157A 268B 249B 257B 368C 349C 357C 268C 249C 257C 368A 349A 357A 168B 149B 157B 368B 349B 357B 168C 149C 157C 268A 249A 257A 1111 1221 1331 2112 2222 2332 3113 3223 3333 2113 2223 2333 3111 3221 3331 1112 1222 1332 3112 3222 3332 1113 1223 1333 2111 2221 2331 1231 1311 1121 2232 2312 2122 3233 3313 3123 2233 2313 2123 3231 3311 3121 1232 1312 1122 3232 3312 3122 1233 1313 1123 2231 2311 2121 1321 1131 1211 2322 2132 2212 3323 3133 3213 2323 2133 2213 3321 3131 3211 1322 1132 1212 3322 3132 3212 1323 1133 1213 2321 2131 2211 123456789456789123789123456231564897564897231897231564312645978645978312978312645 123456789456789123789123456312645978645978312978312645231564897564897231897231564 111555999666777222888333444111555999666777222888333444111555999666777222888333444 159159159159159159159159159672672672672672672672672672834834834834834834834834834 147258369369147258258369147471582693693471582582693471714825936936714825825936714 147258369369147258258369147714825936936714825825936714471582693693471582582693471 Most Canonical With Maxi Row/Column 4 sudoku grids 147A 158A 169A 247B 258B 269B 347C 358C 369C 247C 258C 269C 347A 358A 369A 147B 158B 169B 347B 358B 369B 147C 158C 169C 247A 258A 269A 159A 167A 148A 259B 267B 248B 359C 367C 348C 259C 267C 248C 359A 367A 348A 159B 167B 148B 359B 367B 348B 159C 167C 148C 259A 267A 248A 168A 149A 157A 268B 249B 257B 368C 349C 357C 268C 249C 257C 368A 349A 357A 168B 149B 157B 368B 349B 357B 168C 149C 157C 268A 249A 257A 1111 1221 1331 2112 2222 2332 3113 3223 3333 2113 2223 2333 3111 3221 3331 1112 1222 1332 3112 3222 3332 1113 1223 1333 2111 2221 2331 1231 1311 1121 2232 2312 2122 3233 3313 3123 2233 2313 2123 3231 3311 3121 1232 1312 1122 3232 3312 3122 1233 1313 1123 2231 2311 2121 1321 1131 1211 2322 2132 2212 3323 3133 3213 2323 2133 2213 3321 3131 3211 1322 1132 1212 3322 3132 3212 1323 1133 1213 2321 2131 2211 123456789456789123789123456231564897564897231897231564312645978645978312978312645 123456789456789123789123456312645978645978312978312645231564897564897231897231564 111555999666777222888333444111555999666777222888333444111555999666777222888333444 159159159159159159159159159672672672672672672672672672834834834834834834834834834 147258369369147258258369147471582693693471582582693471714825936936714825825936714 147258369369147258258369147714825936936714825825936714471582693693471582582693471

by **tarek** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:02 am

Here is another Most canonical grid with a special feature (Closer to your 2nd grid simon)

Code: Select all: Set Rules in Mini row/column, Maxi row/column & All Mini box diagonals All possible combinations of attributes form 6 X-Sudoku grids. 147A 158B 169C 248C 259A 267B 349B 357C 368A 249B 257C 268A 347A 358B 369C 148C 159A 167B 348C 359A 367B 149B 157C 168A 247A 258B 269C 168B 149C 157A 269A 247B 258C 367C 348A 359B 267C 248A 259B 368B 349C 357A 169A 147B 158C 369A 347B 358C 167C 148A 159B 268B 249C 257A 159C 167A 148B 257B 268C 249A 358A 369B 347C 258A 269B 247C 359C 367A 348B 157B 168C 149A 357B 368C 349A 158A 169B 147C 259C 267A 248B 123456789456789123789123456312645978645978312978312645231564897564897231897231564 123564978645789231897312456231645789456897312978123564312456897564978123789231645 123645897564789312978231456231456978645897123789312564312564789456978231897123645 159267348348159267267348159834915726726834915915726834672483591591672483483591672 159348267267159348348267159834726915915834726726915834672591483483672591591483672 159672834834159672672834159591726348348591726726348591915267483483915267267483915

I will focus now on solving techniques for players.

tarek

by **tarek** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:35 am

Here are 2 puzzles that explit these constraints, They are Symmetrically minimal. Difficulty has not been tested, so for the time being it should be a machine excerceise only

Code: Select all: Setdoku puzzle 03 Set Rules in Mini row/column, Maxi row/column & All Mini box diagonals All possible combinations of attributes form 6 X-Sudoku grids. ............................Â¢.....S.Ã†.......Ãž.Ã›.....Ã............................ .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 258B .... .... .... .... .... 247A .... 269A .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 367C .... 359C .... .... .... .... .... 348B .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 2222 .... .... .... .... .... 2111 .... 2331 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 3313 .... 3233 .... .... .... .... .... 3122 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ............................5.....4.6.......9.8.....7............................ ............................5.....4.6.......7.9.....8............................ ............................5.....4.4.......9.9.....8............................ ............................5.....1.9.......7.6.....2............................ ............................5.....1.7.......9.6.....2............................ ............................5.....1.7.......3.9.....5............................

Code: Select all: Setdoku puzzle 04 Set Rules in Mini row/column, Maxi row/column & All Mini box diagonals All possible combinations of attributes form 6 X-Sudoku grids. ......................3.........C.....ÃŒ...Â£.....7.........G...................... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 147C .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 157C .... .... .... .... .... 348A .... .... .... 258C .... .... .... .... .... 149A .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 159A .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 1113 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 1213 .... .... .... .... .... 3121 .... .... .... 2223 .... .... .... .... .... 1131 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 1231 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ......................1.........2.....7...5.....1.........2...................... ......................1.........1.....8...5.....3.........3...................... ......................3.........3.....7...6.....1.........1...................... ......................1.........4.....2...5.....3.........6...................... ......................3.........6.....1...6.....1.........4...................... ......................3.........3.....4...6.....7.........7......................

by **tarek** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:07 am

I found a way to utilise the corresponding sudoku grids for Canonicalization. It is a bit tedious.

Superimpose the 2 grids (G12 & G34). Each cell would have 2 symbols (G12 Symbol 1st then G34 symbol 2nd) . Perform the canonicalization process (Row Normal or Box normal) for Vanilla sudokus (648 transformations). Repeat the process but swapping symbols. The most lexographic result would show (G12 & G34 in that order) & a Setdoku grid can be generated. If we have 4 grids or 6 grids then this can be done as well for each 2 different grid combinations so possibly (G12 & G34, G13 & G24, G14 & G23). The most lexographic would be G12 & G34 & the setdoku grid can be generated. I'm sure there is a more effecient way, but this is what came to my mind.

tarek

by **tarek** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:50 pm

I have a puzzle & a walkthrough ....
It should be solvable using Set Rules & singles. This one however does not have MAXI column/row Set rules.

Code: Select all: Setdoku puzzle 05 Set Rules in Mini row/column only Attributes 1&2 form a valid vanilla sudoku grid Attributes 3&4 form a valid vanilla sudoku grid Line format: .H..Ãƒ.....W.ÃŽ.Å½.R...........Ã‚.....Y.Â¬.......N.6V....A...........J.8.~.Ã.....I..Ãš. Hatman Symbols: .... +$3b .... .... -â‚¬2a .... .... .... .... .... -Â£2b .... *Â£2c .... *â‚¬3b .... +â‚¬3c .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... -â‚¬1c .... .... .... .... .... -Â£3a .... -$3b .... .... .... .... .... .... .... +â‚¬2b .... +Â£2c -Â£2a .... .... .... .... +$1a .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... +â‚¬1a .... +Â£3b .... -$2a .... -â‚¬1b .... .... .... .... .... +$3c .... .... *$3b .... Original Symbols: .... 1232 .... .... 2321 .... .... .... .... .... 2122 .... 3123 .... 3332 .... 1333 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 2313 .... .... .... .... .... 2131 .... 2232 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 1322 .... 1123 2121 .... .... .... .... 1211 .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... 1311 .... 1132 .... 2221 .... 2312 .... .... .... .... .... 1233 .... .... 3232 .... Sudoku Grid 1 (Attributes 1&2) .2..6.....4.7.9.3...........6.....4.5.......3.14....2...........3.1.5.6.....2..8. . 2 .|. 6 .|. . . . 4 .|7 . 9|. 3 . . . .|. . .|. . . -----+-----+----- . 6 .|. . .|. 4 . 5 . .|. . .|. . 3 . 1 4|. . .|. 2 . -----+-----+----- . . .|. . .|. . . . 3 .|1 . 5|. 6 . . . .|. 2 .|. 8 . Sudoku grid 2 (Attributes 3&4) .8..4.....5.6.8.9...........3.....7.8.......5.64....1...........1.8.4.2.....9..8. . 8 .|. 4 .|. . . . 5 .|6 . 8|. 9 . . . .|. . .|. . . -----+-----+----- . 3 .|. . .|. 7 . 8 . .|. . .|. . 5 . 6 4|. . .|. 1 . -----+-----+----- . . .|. . .|. . . . 1 .|8 . 4|. 2 . . . .|. 9 .|. 8 .

Solution: Show

by **tarek** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:15 pm

Here is the Walkthrough which is detailed & shows some trivial things just to demonstrate how manual solving / PM aided solving would work:

Setdoku 05 Solution Walkthrough: Show

This level should satisfy variants enthusiasts. PM enthusiasts can obviosly advance puzzles by dissecting the symbols & solving at attribute level.

A few more examples in the next few weeks. Then, puzzles will be posted if there is a public demand (That is why I'm quite relaxed

). I will be posting this Walkthrough on the sudokuSolver & programmers forums.

tarek

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