Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

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Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

Postby shye » Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:37 am

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . . . | 4 5 . |
| 5 . . | . . . | . 9 6 |
| 4 1 . | . . . | . . 7 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 8 . . | 6 . . | . . . |
| 7 5 . | 9 . . | . . . |
| . 9 4 | . 5 8 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | 8 . . | . . . |
| . . . | 7 2 . | 3 . . |
| 9 . . | . 4 6 | 7 8 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
......45.5......9641......78..6.....75.9......94.58......8........72.3..9...4678.

estimated rating: 9.0
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Re: Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

Postby yzfwsf » Thu Apr 17, 2025 9:13 pm

I guess this is the structure the designer is looking for.
Code: Select all
,----------------------,--------------------,----------------------,
| 236#   23678  236789 | 123# 136789  12379 | 4      5      123+8  |
| 5      2378   2378   | 4    1378    1237  | 128    9      6      |
| 4      1      23689  | 235  3689    2359  | 28     23     7      |
:----------------------+--------------------+----------------------:
| 8      23     123    | 6    137     12347 | 1259   1234   123459 |
| 7      5      1236   | 9    13      1234  | 1268   12346  12348  |
| 1236#  9      4      | 123# 5       8     | 126    7      123#   |
:----------------------+--------------------+----------------------:
| 1236#  23467  123567 | 8    139     1359  | 12569  1246   12459  |
| 16#    468    1568   | 7    2       159   | 3      146    1459   |
| 9      23#    1235#  | 135# 4       6     | 7      8      125#   |
'----------------------'--------------------'----------------------'
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Re: Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

Postby eleven » Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:25 pm

Spoiler !
Code: Select all
 *------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 1236  .    .       | 123  .       .      | .    .    123   |
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 |--------------------+---------------------+-----------------|
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | 1236  .    .       | 123  .       .      | .    .    123   |
 |--------------------+---------------------+-----------------|
 | 1236  .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | 1236  .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | .     1235 1235    | 1235 .       .      | .    .    1235  |
 *------------------------------------------------------------*

5 digits 12356 in 12 cells.
5 and 6 can only be there once.
1,2,3 max. 3 times (in 3 rows or 3 columns).
-> max 11 cells, impossible pattern.
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Re: Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

Postby Cenoman » Sat Apr 19, 2025 8:32 pm

yzfwsf wrote:I guess this is the structure the designer is looking for.

eleven wrote:Spoiler !
Code: Select all
 *------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 1236  .    .       | 123  .       .      | .    .    123   |
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 |--------------------+---------------------+-----------------|
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | .     .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | 1236  .    .       | 123  .       .      | .    .    123   |
 |--------------------+---------------------+-----------------|
 | 1236  .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | 1236  .    .       | .    .       .      | .    .    .     |
 | .     1235 1235    | 1235 .       .      | .    .    1235  |
 *------------------------------------------------------------*

5 digits 12356 in 12 cells.
5 and 6 can only be there once.
1,2,3 max. 3 times (in 3 rows or 3 columns).
-> max 11 cells, impossible pattern.


Wow !

First time I see a 5-digit, 12-cell impossible pattern.

Just widening the point (what is important here is the housing for digits 1,2,3 limited to max. 3 sectors each):
The following pattern, 3 digits in 10 cells, is also an impossible pattern. Same rationale as eleven's above. It looks like a bivalue oddagon extended to three digits. Could be called 'Trivalue oddagon' ? EDIT That was an irrelevant suggestion. Cf shye's comment below
Has it already been seen in valid puzzles ?
Code: Select all
 +----------------+----------------+----------------+
 | 123  .    .    | 123  .    .    | .    .    123  |
 | .    .    .    | .    .    .    | .    .    .    |
 | .    .    .    | .    .    .    | .    .    .    |
 +----------------+----------------+----------------+
 | .    .    .    | .    .    .    | .    .    .    |
 | .    .    .    | .    .    .    | .    .    .    |
 | 123  .    .    | 123  .    .    | .    .    123  |
 +----------------+----------------+----------------+
 | 123  .    .    | .    .    .    | .    .    .    |
 | .    .    .    | .    .    .    | .    .    .    |
 | .    .    123  | 123  .    .    | .    .    123  |
 +----------------+----------------+----------------+


Anyhow, thanks for the puzzle to shye and Sulphur !
Thanks yzfwsf and eleven for the tips
Last edited by Cenoman on Sat Apr 19, 2025 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

Postby shye » Sat Apr 19, 2025 9:01 pm

thanks all for solving!

Cenoman wrote:Has it already been seen in valid puzzles ?

im a little surprised i didnt catch this way of solving it, because yes this logic was in an old puzzle of mine, Patto Patto :oops:

the alternative way of solving this that i had in mind is as follows:
if the cells r16c49 contain a repeated digit [123] it is eliminated from r16c1 & r9c49 and therefore in c1 and r9 locked into b7
but it cannot take the intersection (r9c1) and therefore a repeat is not possible. so all 4 cells are different and r1c9 is an 8
this was a different take on a puzzle posted earlier, Crossbow where in that puzzle the repeat is forced and so the intersection cell has eliminations

oh well, im glad this was enjoyed at least! and its nice to see a deduction have multiple ways of being explained
i might as well take the opportunity to post this updated version of Patto Patto that i made a while ago since i felt like that puzzle couldve used more polish

Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 2 3 | . 5 6 | . 8 9 |
| 8 . . | . . . | . . 3 |
| 9 . . | . . . | 5 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 6 1 . | 9 . . | . . 2 |
| 2 . . | 5 8 . | . . 6 |
| . . . | . 6 2 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . . | . . . | . . 5 |
| 5 4 . | . . 7 | . . 8 |
| . 8 6 | . 2 5 | 3 9 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
Odoreya Odore
.23.56.898.......39.....5..61.9....22..58...6....62...3.......554...7..8.86.2539.

as for the relationship to tridagons, its not quite the same logic, but the pattern (in its reduced 3-digit form) is a chromatic pattern of the same size
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Re: Recoil (made in collaboration with Sulphur)

Postby jco » Sun Apr 20, 2025 12:41 pm

Thank you for the puzzle Recoil!
I always enjoy the insightful comments afterwards!

For the lovely Odoreya Odore, my solution path (from the past !)

Let r3c9 = A, r6c9 = B and r9c9 = C be the correct digits at these cells.

Code: Select all
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|*ABC     2       3       |*ABC     5       6       |*BC      8       9       |
| 8       567     1457    | 1247    1479    149     | 12467   12467   3       |
| 9       67      BC      | 123478  1347    1348    | 5       12467  *A       |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 6       1       4578    | 9       347     34      | 478     3457    2       |
| 2       379     479     | 5       8       134     | 1479    1347    6       |
|*AC      3579    45789   |*3AC     6       2       | 14789   13457  *B       |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 3       79      1279    | 1468    149     1489    | 12467   12467   5       |
| 5       4       129     | 136     139     7       | 126     126     8       |
|*AB      8       6       |*AB      2       5       | 3       9      *C       |
'-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'

X-wing (A)r19\c14 => -A r6c14 [+C r6c1, +3 r6c4; ste]
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