The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[shakers]

Having started using the Sudoku program I've been wondering how The Times ratings (Mild, Difficult, Fiendish, etc.) relate to the classifications given by the program (Hard, V Hard, etc).

[Pappocom]

Pappocom Very Easy = Times Easy
Pappocom Easy = Times Mild
Pappocom Medium = Times Difficult
Pappocom Hard = Times Fiendish
Pappocom Very Hard = (not published)

I'm not often in England, so I don't always get to see the puzzle, as published in the paper. However, I did see a puzzle that was mis-labelled. The puzzle was Pappocom Hard but it was labelled "Difficult" in the paper.

- Wayne

[shakers]

Thanks for that confirmation; makes me feel quite smug I've been playing the odd Pappocom Very Hard puzzle for fun!

Are you so close to the puzzles that you were/are able to identify a mis-labelled puzzle just by looking at the clues?

[Pappocom]

No! I'm not that obsessive!

It was probably misleading when I said I had "seen" the puzzle. It was before these forums began, and someone had emailed me with a puzzle they could not solve. They said they had always been able to solve Difficult puzzles, but not this one. In the course of helping her, I realized it was a Hard puzzle. A check of my records confirmed it.

People who use T&E for solving will probably notice no difference between Hard and Very Hard puzzles, but people who use logic-only will certainly notice a difference.

- Wayne

[shakers]

I've seen various people with the Telegraph puzzle recently, and I've been urging them to look at The Times because of the need for T&E. It's so much more satisfying to be able to solve them by thinking about them - even if you've needed a pointer from here!

Seeing your comments in another thread about giving your puzzles to the papers gratis, does that mean you use your commerically available program to generate the published ones? (Which reminds me, the nag screens are starting to get annoying now... must get a serial number!)

[Pappocom]

The program I use to generate puzzles for papers is not the same as the commercially available program - although the core Sudoku engine is virtually the same.

I agree with you about The Times puzzle being more "satisfying" than a T&E-only puzzle (but then, I suppose I would, wouldn't I)

- Wayne

[zebedee]

No! I'm not that obsessive!

It was probably misleading when I said I had "seen" the puzzle. It was before these forums began, and someone had emailed me with a puzzle they could not solve. They said they had always been able to solve Difficult puzzles, but not this one. In the course of helping her, I realized it was a Hard puzzle. A check of my records confirmed it.

People who use T&E for solving will probably notice no difference between Hard and Very Hard puzzles, but people who use logic-only will certainly notice a difference.

- Wayne

Hi Pappocom,

Can I take it from what you say that even the Very Hard puzzles on your computer programme, a copy of which I have recently purchased, can be solved with logic alone?

Regards.

Zeb

[Pappocom]

Yes, that's right. The Very Hard puzzles are (also) solveable using logic alone.

- Wayne

[The Druid]

Out of interest - how do you decide how to classify each puzzle as "mild", "fiendish", etc.?

I usually find your classification system to be reasonably accurate, but fairly regularly come across puzzles which seem exceptionally easy (or occasionally exceptionally hard) for their notional designation.

I've wondered whether this is just because of the way in which my mind works when solving logic puzzles (i.e. I'm out of step with everyone else), or whether classification is an imprecise art?

[Tsunami]

Hi!
I've noticed that in The Times on Saturday, the puzzle is rated as 'Mild' but I often find it quite difficult to solve. Is Saturday's 'mild' really mild?

Or does my brain not work so well at the weekend?

[Pappocom]

Thanks, Tsunami, for drawing my attention to this.

The Saturday puzzles in the Weekend Review for April 16 and 23 are both labelled "Mild", I see. However, both of those puzzles are in fact Mediums - which The Times, on weekdays anyway, calls "Difficult".

The Weekend Review is put out by a different staff altogether from the normal weekday paper.

I shall contact The Times and find out what is happening.

The Times does mis-label the puzzles now and then, it seems. Puzzle #119 on April 15 appeared as a "Difficult" puzzle (which equates to my Medium). However, it was a Hard puzzle, which would make it Times "Fiendish".

- Wayne

[Tsunami]

I'm glad it's not just me going mad then....

[Pappocom]

I've had confirmation from The Times that the "Mild" puzzles in the Weekend Review are in fact "Difficult" and will be labelled as such in the future. Apologies to all who must have been a bit bewildered. (Please note that this is not a problem with Pappocom puzzles, only with the way they were labelled by The Times).

The Weekend Review deals only in "Difficult" and "Fiendish" grades.

- Wayne.

[Henry]

I have been reviewing this thread with interest. I have wondered about the Times Review edition thinking that with the whole weekend before one, they really ought to publish something that will keep us occupied for the whole of a wet weekend! I have to say that yesterday's (30th April) has certainly kept us puzzling away. Not solved it yet!

[The Druid]

I would still love to know how you decide how to classify each puzzle as "mild", "fiendish", etc.

I can see that classification is not by the number of numerals shown in the original grid. Nor is it by how long it takes to solve a particular puzzle.

There seems to be some correlation with the number of different logical premises which have to be applied sequentially to solve a specific puzzle, but the correlation isn't very exact.

When I did the puzzles in The Times book, I scribbled a comment on many of the pages. In the "Fiendish" section, most of my comments were "Straightforward" or "Average", with a couple of "Definitely not fiendish", "Very straightforward indeed", and even one "Easy". But in the "Difficult" section, I have labelled one puzzle "Extremely hard" and one "Confusing and tricky".

So, may I enquire, how is it decided which category to apply to any given puzzle?