The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[P.O.]

Code: Select all

.  1  .  .  6  .  .  8  .
.  .  2  .  .  3  .  .  1
4  .  .  5  .  .  6  .  .
1  .  .  .  2  4  .  .  .
3  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
.  7  .  8  .  .  1  .  .
.  .  1  .  .  7  5  3  .
7  .  .  6  .  .  .  .  2
.  5  .  .  4  .  9  .  .

.1..6..8...2..3..14..5..6..1...24...3.........7.8..1....1..753.7..6....2.5..4.9..

59      1       3579    2479    6       29      2347    8       34579           
5689    689     2       479     789     3       47      4579    1               
4       389     3789    5       1789    1289    6       279     379             
1       689     5689    379     2       4       378     5679    356789           
3       24689   45689   179     1579    1569    2478    245679  456789           
2569    7       4569    8       359     569     1       24569   34569           
2689    24689   1       29      89      7       5       3       468             
7       3489    3489    6       13589   1589    48      14      2               
268     5       368     123     4       128     9       167     678       


[Cenoman]

Code: Select all

 +-------------------------+-------------------------+---------------------------+
 |  59     1       3579    |   2479   6       29     |  2347   8        34579    |
 |Ba5689  A689     2       |   479   y789     3      |  47     4579     1        |
 |  4      389     3789    |   5      1789    1289   |  6      279      379      |
 +-------------------------+-------------------------+---------------------------+
 |  1      689     5689    |   379    2       4      |  378    5679     356789   |
 |  3      24689   45689   |   179    1579    1569   |  2478   245679   456789   |
 |  2569   7       4569    |   8      359     569    |  1      24569    34569    |
 +-------------------------+-------------------------+---------------------------+
 |Cd2689   4689-2  1       |zCd29  zCd89      7      |  5      3        468      |
 |  7      3489    3489    |   6      13589   1589   |  48     14       2        |
 |cb268    5       368     |   123    4       128    |  9      167      678      |
 +-------------------------+-------------------------+---------------------------+

Double Kraken row (8)r2c125 & cell (268)r9c1
(8)r2c1 - r9c1 = [(2=6)r9c1 - (6=892)r7c145]
(8-6)r2c2 = r2c1 - (6=892)r7c145
(8)r2c5 - (8=92)r7c45
=> -2 r7c2; ste

[StrmCkr]

Code: Select all

+-----------------------+-------------------+----------------------+
| 59      1       3579  | 2479  6      29   | 2347  8       34579  |
| 59(68)  9(68)   2     | 479   79(8)  3    | 47    4579    1      |
| 4       389     3789  | 5     1789   1289 | 6     279     379    |
+-----------------------+-------------------+----------------------+
| 1       689     5689  | 379   2      4    | 378   5679    356789 |
| 3       24689   45689 | 179   1579   1569 | 2478  245679  456789 |
| 2569    7       4569  | 8     359    569  | 1     24569   34569  |
+-----------------------+-------------------+----------------------+
| (2689)  4689-2  1     | (29)  (89)   7    | 5     3       468    |
| 7       3489    3489  | 6     13589  1589 | 48    14      2      |
| (268)   5       368   | 123   4      128  | 9     167     678    |
+-----------------------+-------------------+----------------------+

inspired by cenomans

a) AALS) 268 @ r89c1
b) AHS) 68 @ r2c125
c) ALS) 2689 @ r7c145

not sure how to write this one out...
(2=89)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c1c5 = (6,8)r2c12 - (68=2)r9c1 => r7c2

als c contains 2 or AHS+ALS contain 6&8 reducing aals A) to only holding 2.

[SteveG48]

The same as Cenoman, I think, but written differently

Code: Select all

 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 |   59      1       3579    | 2479    6       29      | 2347    8       34579   |
 | bc5689   c689     2       | 479    b789     3       | 47      4579    1       |
 |   4       389     3789    | 5       1789    1289    | 6       279     379     |
 *---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 |   1       689     5689    | 379     2       4       | 378     5679    356789  |
 |   3       24689   45689   | 179     1579    1569    | 2478    245679  456789  |
 |   2569    7       4569    | 8       359     569     | 1       24569   34569   |
 *---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 |ade2689    4689-2  1       |a29     a89      7       | 5       3       468     |
 |   7       3489    3489    | 6       13589   1589    | 48      14      2       |
 | de268     5       368     | 123     4       128     | 9       167     678     |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------*


(2=968)r7c145 - 6r2c1|8r2c5 = 6r2c2&8r2c1 - 8r79c1 = (62)r79c1|(92)r7c14 => -2 r7c2 ; ste

[Cenoman]

not sure how to write this one out...
(2=89)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c1c5 = (6,8)r2c12 - (68=2)r9c1 => r7c2

als c contains 2 or AHS+ALS contain 6&8 reducing aals A) to only holding 2.

Warning: I'm not sure either. Not an expert in notation

Using commas between digits to display their arrangement in the node, I'd write your idea:
(2=6*,9,8)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c15 = (8,6)r2c12 - (6*|8=2)r9c1 => -2 r7c2, with the '*' marking the memory effect of 6r7c1

Note: you could also use the memory effect of 9 r7c4, getting something close to Steve's:
(2=6,9*,8)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c15 = (8,6)r2c12 - (8|9*=26)r79c1 => -2 r7c2

[SteveG48]

not sure how to write this one out...
(2=89)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c1c5 = (6,8)r2c12 - (68=2)r9c1 => r7c2

als c contains 2 or AHS+ALS contain 6&8 reducing aals A) to only holding 2.

Warning: I'm not sure either. Not an expert in notation

Using commas between digits to display their arrangement in the node, I'd write your idea:
(2=6*,9,8)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c15 = (8,6)r2c12 - (6*|8=2)r9c1 => -2 r7c2, with the '*' marking the memory effect of 6r7c1

Note: you could also use the memory effect of 9 r7c4, getting something close to Steve's:
(2=6,9*,8)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c15 = (8,6)r2c12 - (8|9*=26)r79c1 => -2 r7c2

I'm not a notation expert either, but I like both of these. I don't think you need the commas in the first term, as there is only one possible ordering with 2 eliminated from the set, but the commas don't hurt. Also, I prefer to put the second star before the candidate, indicating that it refers back. For example,

(2=6*,9,8)r7c145 - (6,8)r2c15 = (8,6)r2c12 - (*6|8=2)r9c1 => -2 r7c2

[StrmCkr]

Thanks for trying, it's not a memory chain*.

It's aals double linked to als and ahs. with als linked to ahs

problem Is there is not any clean way to write ahs linkagages as aic use digits,
where ahs use cells, the grey area in aic Notation as cells could be more then digit at that local. But for Ahs the cell is
either( on or off)

Normally I don't use commas in Notation either as it dosent add anything .... The use of | is still a mystery as it's listed as used for writing seperate cells in a set that fallout side a single rxcxxx meaning" And" (for eureka aic chain Notation 2006).
However I see it used as: and/or, or, and else. When reading chains

That and I'm not great on chain writting either, usually I use my software to check its accuracy but this is outside that scope.

The key is r2c1 is on (6 or 8) or neither
6&8 links: to AAls & als, aals & als are also double linked
Neither: links 8 to als locking the set.

(Probably should add the 289 set to the list..)

[Cenoman]

1) Full agreement to Steve's comments.

2) Use of the | . My own use of | is definitely unambiguous, it means OR and nothing else. It is the symbol of the OR operator in some programming languages (Java notably) and its use in Eureka notation (see Sudocue or Sudopedia) is the same, not at all meaning AND
Side remark: I agree that in my proposed chains, it could be omitted in the node (68=2)r9c1, since (68)r9c1 cannot mean anything else than 6r9c1 OR 8r9c1. Added: as mentionned by Steve in a further post, even if not strictly required, there no drawback to write this (6|8=2)r9c1, in order to avoid ambiguousness or misinterpretation.

3)

it's not a memory chain
It's aals double linked to als and ahs. with als linked to ahs

With my own writing, and using your ideas, I'd present the following kraken AALS:
(2)r79c1
(68)r79c1 - (68)r2c12 = (8)r2c5 - (8=92)r7c45
(9)r7c1 - (9=2)r7c4
=> - 2 r7c2

...that can be written as a chain (using the | symbol, but here it's needed):
(29r7c14|2r9c1) = (68)r79c1 - (68)r2c12 = (8)r2c5 - (8=92)r7c45 => -2r7c2
(not a memory chain )
It has the following matrix (PM 6x6):

Code: Select all

2r7c1 6r7c1 8r7c1 9r7c1                }AALS r79c1
2r9c1 6r9c1 8r9c1                      }
      6r2c1             6r2c2           }AHS 68r2c125
            8r2c1       8r2c2 8r2c5     }
2r7c4             9r7c4                }ALS r7c45
                  9r7c5       8r7c5    }
-----------------
=> -2 r7c2

Truth-link balance: 6 truths, r79c1, 68r2, r7c45; 5 links, 68c1, 9r7, 8c5, r2c2 (+ 3 links to the target)

Clearly, the AHS is doubly linked to AALS: 68c1; the ALS is linked to AALS: 9r7 and to AHS: 8c5
Thank you for your improvements. The last chain writing is my preference ,
added i.e. chain (29r7c14|2r9c1) = (68)r79c1 - (68)r2c12 = (8)r2c5 - (8=92)r7c45 => -2r7c2
Edit: more accurate wording added, according to StrmCkr's and Steve's further posts

[StrmCkr]

Unordered group, in a box

(1)r5c4|r6c45. <==== used as "and" for cell listings

|| is or In Java, so I can get the refrence.

nice

The line by line matrix is preference? , mines usually als/ahs Notation.

[Cenoman]

Unordered group in a box
(1)r5c4|r6c45. <==== used as "and" for cell listings

Different reading for me:
(2)r79c1 is a group in a column. As only one cell out of the two can contain digit 2, it means 2r7c1 OR 2r9c1. No reason to treat a group in a box differently; (1)r5c4|r6c45 means 1r5c4 OR 1 r6c45, and completely developed, 1r5c4 OR 1 r6c4 OR 1 r6c5.
I, and many other players in this forum would write such a box group (1)b5p478 (i.e. the same way as line groups).
The difference in my reading is: the | symbol adresses the candidates (digit and cell coordinates) rather than the cells alone.

|| is or In Java, so I can get the refrence.

No. | is OR in Java. || is OR in C++ (and also in C and in C#, I suppose)

The line by line matrix is preference?

Sorry, I have been unclear. My preference is the chain (29r7c14|2r9c1) = (68)r79c1 - (68)r2c12 = (8)r2c5 - (8=92)r7c45 => -2r7c2
I appreciate the high explanatory power of matrices, but their heuristic value is weak, and I quite never write a solution with a matrix.

[SteveG48]

Side remark: I agree that in my proposed chains, it could be omitted in the node (68=2)r9c1, since (68)r9c1 cannot mean anything else than 6r9c1 OR 8r9c1.

I agree with everything that you've said, and I certainly can't argue that (68)r9c1 could mean something other than 6 OR 8 since we're talking about a single cell. Nevertheless, I really, really dislike using the notation (68) to mean anything other than an implied (6&8). In my early days here, it seemed that few people ever used the | symbol, and I found things ambiguous at times. I'm so glad that most of us are now more careful.

[StrmCkr]

||. - - - I'm coding in eclipse maven via Java language for a rebuild of my solver and this is used as "or"

Aside :
So far à colloborator, that's been reteaching me Java and helping me port.my pascal code over

has gotten some theories of mine of the drawing board and working better then expected with graphics

N als nRcc rules (double, tripple, for size xz, xy and nRcc for longer)

AIC+ als + almost fish as links <= this one is epic to see in chain form

But I get your point,

the original eureka page never had box pairing Notation for boxes hence the
Part of the cells listed as a collated group r1c1|r2c2| r3c3 using it as "And" for a naked trip

I do agree that's messy, and went with Bp Notation instead of adding another meaningless/impractical symbol

With my thinking it ment And... Completly changes how to read someone's chain...

[P.O.]

thank you for your answers, my solution also eliminates 2 from r7c2:

Code: Select all

2r7c2 => b1p4589 <> 8
 r7c2=2 - r7c4{n2 n9} - 68r79c1 - r2n6{c1 c2}
 r7c2=2 - 89r7c45 - c6n8{r89 r3}
 
=> r7c2 <> 2
ste.


[rjamil]

Hi all,

Allow me to show the operators used in C/C++ language (and, in few other computer languages, like for example, java) as follows:



For further detail, see here.

R. Jamil

[yzfwsf]

Whip with memory notation
Whip[6]: Supposing 2r7c2 will result in 6 to disappear in Box 1 => r7c2<>2
2$r7c2 - r7c4(2=9%) - r7c5(9=8#) - r7c1(2$9%8=6@) - r9c1(2$6=8) - 8r2(c5#1=c2) - 6b1(p4@5=.)

stte