Please help with this puzzle!

Post the puzzle or solving technique that's causing you trouble and someone will help

Please help with this puzzle!

Postby yoime » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:53 pm

How do i derive the next number? Any help is appreciated.

*94*362**
*7****435
*3*4*****
***8*15**
*2**4****
78****146
8***579*4
**7**43**
*****2**7
yoime
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 05 December 2006

Postby daj95376 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:13 am

You should have read the forum to see how others are posting puzzles. Here's your puzzle and its associated pencilmark (PM) grid. A hole bunch of eliminations follow. We can't help you because we have no way of knowing how far you progressed before becoming stuck. So, I'll just post a solution and you can work from there.

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |.94|.36|2..|
 |.7.|...|435|
 |.3.|4..|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|8.1|5..|
 |.2.|.4.|...|
 |78.|...|146|
 |---+---+---|
 |8..|.57|9.4|
 |..7|..4|3..|
 |...|..2|..7|
 *-----------*

 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 15      9       4       | 157     3       6       | 2       178     18      |
 | 126     7       1268    | 129     1289    89      | 4       3       5       |
 | 1256    3       12568   | 4       12789   589     | 678     16789   189     |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 3469    46      369     | 8       2679    1       | 5       279     239     |
 | 13569   2       13569   | 35679   4       359     | 78      789     389     |
 | 7       8       359     | 2359    29      359     | 1       4       6       |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 8       16      1236    | 136     5       7       | 9       126     4       |
 | 12569   156     7       | 169     1689    4       | 3       12568   128     |
 | 134569  1456    13569   | 1369    1689    2       | 68      1568    7       |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Code: Select all
    b3  -  6     Locked Candidate (1)
    b3  -  9     Locked Candidate (1)
    b6  -  2     Locked Candidate (1)
    b8  -  3     Locked Candidate (1)
    b8  -  8     Locked Candidate (1)
r1      -  8     Locked Candidate (2)
  c2    -  1     Locked Candidate (2)
  c2    -  5     Locked Candidate (2)
    b5  -  2359  Naked  Quad
r9c4    <> 6     XY-Wing  on [r5c7]
r1c8    <> 7     Templates (A) -- simple Colors
r3c5    <> 7     Templates (A) -- simple Colors
r4c8    <> 7     Templates (A) -- simple Colors
r5c4    <> 7     Templates (A) -- simple Colors
r9      -  68    Naked  Pair

Code: Select all
*-----------------------*
| 5 9 4 | 7 3 6 | 2 8 1 |
| 6 7 1 | 2 9 8 | 4 3 5 |
| 2 3 8 | 4 1 5 | 7 6 9 |
|-------+-------+-------|
| 3 4 6 | 8 7 1 | 5 9 2 |
| 1 2 5 | 6 4 9 | 8 7 3 |
| 7 8 9 | 5 2 3 | 1 4 6 |
|-------+-------+-------|
| 8 6 2 | 3 5 7 | 9 1 4 |
| 9 5 7 | 1 6 4 | 3 2 8 |
| 4 1 3 | 9 8 2 | 6 5 7 |
*-----------------------*
daj95376
2014 Supporter
 
Posts: 2624
Joined: 15 May 2006

Postby udosuk » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:38 am

The XY-wing is not necessary...

After some locked candidates and a hidden pair of {67} in c5, you arrive at this state:
Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 15     9      4      |*157    3      6      | 2     *178    18     |
 | 126    7      1268   | 129    129    89     | 4      3      5      |
 | 125    3      1258   | 4      127    58     | 67     1679   19     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 3469   46     369    | 8     *67     1      | 5     *279    239    |
 | 13569  2      13569  |-67     4      359    | 78     789    389    |
 | 7      8      359    | 259    29     359    | 1      4      6      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 8      16     236    | 136    5      7      | 9      126    4      |
 | 269    156    7      | 169    1689   4      | 3      12568  128    |
 | 3469   1456   369    | 1369   1689   2      | 68     1568   7      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

(Simple) Turbot fish:
r5c4=7 will force two 7s on c8 (r14c8), therefore r5c4<>7
Singles and a naked pair will solve the rest of the grid...
udosuk
 
Posts: 2698
Joined: 17 July 2005

Postby wapati » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:52 am

udosuk wrote:The XY-wing is not necessary...

After some locked candidates and a hidden pair of {67} in c5, you arrive at this state:
Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 15     9      4      |*157    3      6      | 2     *178    18     |
 | 126    7      1268   | 129    129    89     | 4      3      5      |
 | 125    3      1258   | 4      127    58     | 67     1679   19     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 3469   46     369    | 8     *67     1      | 5     *279    239    |
 | 13569  2      13569  |-67     4      359    | 78     789    389    |
 | 7      8      359    | 259    29     359    | 1      4      6      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 8      16     236    | 136    5      7      | 9      126    4      |
 | 269    156    7      | 169    1689   4      | 3      12568  128    |
 | 3469   1456   369    | 1369   1689   2      | 68     1568   7      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

(Simple) Turbot fish:
r5c4=7 will force two 7s on c8 (r14c8), therefore r5c4<>7
Singles and a naked pair will solve the rest of the grid...


Wow! This is rare, in my observation. This point has all three forms
of Turbot acting on the 5 cells.

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 15     9      4      |#157    3      6      | 2     #178    18     |
 | 126    7      1268   | 129    129    89     | 4      3      5      |
 | 125    3      1258   | 4      127    58     | 67     1679   19     |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 3469   46     369    | 8     #67     1      | 5     #279    239    |
 | 13569  2      13569  |#67     4      359    | 78     789    389    |
 | 7      8      359    | 259    29     359    | 1      4      6      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 8      16     236    | 136    5      7      | 9      126    4      |
 | 269    156    7      | 169    1689   4      | 3      12568  128    |
 | 3469   1456   369    | 1369   1689   2      | 68     1568   7      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

One can use "traditional Turbot" with r5c4-r4c5 picking up 7s on
r1c4-r1c8 eliminating the 7 in r4c8.

2 string kite is a Turbot also. Using it on 7s, r5c4->r1c4 and r4c5->r4c8
eliminates 7 from r1c8.

Skyscraper is the third form of Turbot. On 7s, r1c8 and r4c8 working with
r1c4 and r4c5 eliminate 7 from r3c5 and r5c4.


I have never seen all three Turbots involved in the same 5 cells.
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby Neunmalneun » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:38 pm

You can see it as a turbo-turbot fish, or you can use simple coloring, or you can look at it as an Almost X-Wing (if R5C7 <> 7, the X-Wing in R15C48 would kill the 7 in R4C8, and if R5C7=7, R4C8 wouldn't be 7 either). In any case R4C8 <> 7, and that solves the puzzle.
Neunmalneun
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 22 December 2005


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