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Please help to solve this

Postby Kites » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:42 pm

489, 6, 248, 1, 5, 479, 3, 4789, 248
7, 1, 24, 8, 3, 49, 4569,459, 2456
489, 3, 5, 479, 2, 6, 489, 4789, 1

1, 2, 46, 3, 689, 489, 7, 458, 458
5, 9, 467, 467, 678, 2, 48, 1, 3
48,478,3, 47, 1, 5, 2, 6, 9

3, 4578, 478, 2, 6789, 789, 1, 4589, 4568
6, 458, 1, 59, 89, 3, 4589, 2, 7
2, 578, 567, 4, 1, 568, 3, 568
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Postby daj95376 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:59 pm

You only have information for eight cells in the last row.
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Postby Kites » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:38 pm

oops sorry;
2, 578, 9, 567, 4, 1, 568, 3, 568
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Postby tarek » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:55 pm

hi Kites & welcome to this forum,

It would help emmensely if you would read the "How to ask for help" sticky thread on this section of the forum........

your puzzle had a hint of symmetry which allowed me to re-create it...
Code: Select all
 . 6 . | 1 5 . | 3 . . 
 7 1 . | 8 . . | . . . 
 . . 5 | . . 6 | . . 1 
-------+-------+------
 1 2 . | 3 . . | 7 . . 
 5 9 . | . . . | . 1 3 
 . . 3 | . . 5 | . 6 9 
-------+-------+------
 3 . . | 2 . . | 1 . . 
 . . . | . . 3 | . 2 7 
 . . 9 | . 4 1 | . 3 .
you reached in your solution to this point...
Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------*
| 489   6     248  | 1     5     479  | 3     4789  248  |
| 7     1     24   | 8     3     49   | 4569  459   2456 |
| 489   3     5    | 479   2     6    | 489   4789  1    |
|------------------+------------------+------------------|
| 1     2     46   | 3     689   489  | 7     458   458  |
| 5     9     467  | 467   678   2    | 48    1     3    |
| 48    478   3    | 47    1     5    | 2     6     9    |
|------------------+------------------+------------------|
| 3     4578  478  | 2     6789  789  | 1     4589  4568 |
| 6     458   1    | 59    89    3    | 4589  2     7    |
| 2     578   9    | 567   4     1    | 568   3     568  |
*--------------------------------------------------------*

here you have 2 x-wings formed out of the digit 7 (choose one) ... 2 smaller obstacles after that......

Nice superior level puzzle...

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Postby Kites » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:41 am

:(anyone there?
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30 clues, needs X-wing

Postby Pat » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:54 pm

Kites wrote:anyone there?


hi Kites - and welcome back - you've certainly been gone a long time!

continuing tarek's comment,
the original puzzle may have been this [ 30 clues ] -
Code: Select all
 . 6 . | 1 5 . | 3 . . 
 7 1 . | 8 . . | . . . 
 . . 5 | . . 6 | . . 1 
-------+-------+------
 1 2 . | 3 . . | 7 . . 
 5 . . | . . . | . . 3 
 . . 3 | . . 5 | . 6 9 
-------+-------+------
 3 . . | 2 . . | 1 . . 
 . . . | . . 3 | . 2 7 
 . . 9 | . 4 1 | . 3 .


- and "hidden singles" will get us 11 cells, reaching 41 -
Code: Select all
 . 6 . | 1 5 . | 3 . .
 7 1 . | 8 3 . | . . .
 . 3 5 | . 2 6 | . . 1
-------+-------+------
 1 2 . | 3 . . | 7 . .
 5 9 . | . . 2 | . 1 3
 . . 3 | . 1 5 | 2 6 9
-------+-------+------
 3 . . | 2 . . | 1 . .
 6 . 1 | . . 3 | . 2 7
 2 . 9 | . 4 1 | . 3 .


- where an X-wing is needed--

~ Pat
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Let's complicate a little

Postby Carcul » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:59 pm

Code: Select all
 *------------------------------------------------------*
 | 489   6     248 | 1     5     479 | 3     4789  248  |
 | 7     1     24  | 8     3     49  | 4569  459   2456 |
 | 489   3     5   | 479   2     6   | 489   4789  1    |
 |-----------------+-----------------+------------------|
 | 1     2     46  | 3     689   489 | 7     458   458  |
 | 5     9     467 | 467   678   2   | 48    1     3    |
 | 48    478   3   | 47    1     5   | 2     6     9    |
 |-----------------+-----------------+------------------|
 | 3     4578  478 | 2     6789  789 | 1     4589  4568 |
 | 6     458   1   | 59    89    3   | 4589  2     7    |
 | 2     578   9   | 567   4     1   | 568   3     568  |
 *------------------------------------------------------*

Let’s consider A(5,8,9)=[r8c45], B(4,5,8,9)=[r258c7], C(4,5,6,7,9)=[r3569c4], D(5,6,7,8)=[r9c279], E(4,7,8,9)=[r127c6].
Now we have r8c4=5 or r8c5=8. But: if r8c4~5 => A locked => E locked => r3c4=7 => r6c4<>7 => r6c2=7 => D locked; if r8c5~8 => A locked => B locked => C locked. So, r8c4=5 and r8c5=8.

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Postby Kites » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:57 pm

I am still struggling. Unless I am completely on the wrong track, I have now managed to further add three digits; 7 - r1c6, 7 - r3c8 and 5 - r8c4.
I cannot see the next move.

Please forgive me Carcul, but I couldn't follow your explanation, I took the X wing path.
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Postby RW » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:47 pm

Kites wrote:I am still struggling. Unless I am completely on the wrong track, I have now managed to further add three digits; 7 - r1c6, 7 - r3c8 and 5 - r8c4.
I cannot see the next move.


Then it should look like this:
Code: Select all
 . 6 . | 1 5 7 | 3 . .
 7 1 . | 8 3 . | . . .
 . 3 5 | . 2 6 | . 7 1
-------+-------+------
 1 2 . | 3 . . | 7 . .
 5 9 . | . . 2 | . 1 3
 . . 3 | . 1 5 | 2 6 9
-------+-------+------
 3 . . | 2 . . | 1 . .
 6 . 1 | 5 . 3 | . 2 7
 2 . 9 | . 4 1 | . 3 .

Look at column 4, that should give you the next move.

RW
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Postby Kites » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:55 pm

:D
I can't believe I didn't spot the move in column 4!!! Could not see the wood for the trees....
Thank you very much RW and Tarek for guiding me in the first place.
:D
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X-wing - 6 = 2 + 1 + 1 + 2

Postby Pat » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:27 pm

tarek wrote:you have 2 X-wings formed out of the digit 7 (choose one)


seems an unusual situation with the the X-wing: with the digit missing 6 times, we expect an X-wing and a Jellyfish ( 6 = 2 + 4 ); or sometimes, an X-wing and a Swordfish ( 6 = 2 + 1 + 3 ) — find either one of them to create a "single"; but here we have 2 X-wings ( 6 = 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 ) — find either one of them to create two "singles"!
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Postby Len » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:01 pm

From Carcul's code Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:59 pm 4 does not work in r2c3. That makes r1c3 48 and 4 leads to a solution.
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