## Patterns Game referee

Interactive on-site game threads go here

### Patterns Game referee

there was a question about scoring in game 0122 and I had to consult the referee source (a ksh93 script) before responding
the last-entry and highest-rating bonuses are computed as a percentage of the total score
the total score is computed, then the percentage bonuses are added independently
i.e., the last-entry percentage bonus does not affect the highest-rating bonus
here is the relevant code
Code: Select all
`        if      (( total_score > 0 ))        then    if      (( SCORE_LAST_PERCENT )) && [[ \${last_valid.name} ]]                then    (( n = total_score * SCORE_LAST_PERCENT / 100 ))                        SCORE[\${last_valid.name}]+="+\$n"                        (( score[\${last_valid.name}] += n ))                        (( total_bonus += n ))                        (( pct[L] = n ))                fi                if      (( SCORE_HIGHEST_PERCENT )) && [[ \${best_entry.name} ]]                then    (( n = best_entry.score ))                        SCORE[\${best_entry.name}]+="+\$n"                        (( score[\${best_entry.name}] += n ))                        (( total_bonus += n ))                        (( pct[H] = n ))                fi                (( total_score += total_bonus ))        fi`

for entry 85 we have: 0 - 100 + 85 + 85 + 7023 * 0.05 = 421
-100: previous penalties
85: entry ordinal
85: last entry ordinal bonus
351: 5% of total score last entry bonus

here is the scoring entry by entry for game 0122
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
`=== 1 ronk 1.5/1.2/1.2 2010-10-11+00:00:00-0000 [ ronk:0-19+1+1 ] score=-17 bonus=0 total=-17 ====== 2 joel64 1.2/1.2/1.2 2010-10-11+00:27:00-0000 [ joel64:0+2+2 ronk:-19+1 ] score=-14 bonus=0 total=-14 ====== 3 gsf 9.2/9.2/9.2 2010-10-11+00:40:00-0000 [ gsf:0+107+3+3+4+9 ] score=96 bonus=13 total=109 ====== 4 joel64 6.6/6.6/6.6 2010-10-11+00:48:00-0000 [ gsf:107+3+9 joel64:2+69+4+8 ] score=166 bonus=17 total=183 ====== 5 gsf 2.0/2.0/2.0 2010-10-11+00:57:00-0000 [ gsf:107+5+5+3+8+9 ] score=172 bonus=17 total=189 ====== 6 joel64 10.4/10.4/9.5 2010-10-11+00:59:00-0000 [ joel64:71+194+6+6+18+36 ] score=370 bonus=54 total=424 ====== 7 gsf 1.5/1.5/1.5 2010-10-11+01:15:00-0000 [ gsf:112+7+7+19 joel64:265+6+36 ] score=397 bonus=55 total=452 ====== 8 joel64 9.9/9.9/9.9 2010-10-11+01:17:00-0000 [ joel64:265+122+8+6+26+36 ] score=520 bonus=62 total=582 ====== 9 gsf 9.0/8.9/7.8 2010-10-11+01:32:00-0000 [ gsf:119+172+9+34 joel64:387+6+36 ] score=693 bonus=70 total=763 ====== 10 joel64 9.4/9.4/9.4 2010-10-11+01:35:00-0000 [ joel64:387+116+10+6+40+36 ] score=810 bonus=76 total=886 ====== 11 gsf 9.7/9.7/8.8 2010-10-11+01:48:00-0000 [ gsf:291+188+11+49 joel64:503+6+36 ] score=999 bonus=85 total=1084 ====== 12 joel64 9.3/9.3/9.3 2010-10-11+01:49:00-0000 [ joel64:503+117+12+6+55+36 ] score=1117 bonus=91 total=1208 ====== 13 gsf 7.1/7.1/7.1 2010-10-11+02:07:00-0000 [ gsf:479+85+13+60 joel64:620+6+36 ] score=1203 bonus=96 total=1299 ====== 14 joel64 10.5/10.5/8.4 2010-10-11+02:19:00-0000 [ joel64:620+191+14+14+70+138 ] score=1403 bonus=208 total=1611 ====== 15 gsf 8.9/8.8/6.7 2010-10-11+02:27:00-0000 [ gsf:564+167+15+78 joel64:811+14+138 ] score=1571 bonus=216 total=1787 ====== 16 joel64 3.6/3.6/3.6 2010-10-11+02:29:00-0000 [ joel64:811+36+16+14+80+138 ] score=1608 bonus=218 total=1826 ====== 17 gsf 8.5/8.3/8.3 2010-10-11+02:46:00-0000 [ gsf:731+182+17+89 joel64:847+14+138 ] score=1791 bonus=227 total=2018 ====== 18 champagne 9.7/9.7/9.7 2010-10-11+06:36:00-0000 [ champagne:0+129+18+88 joel64:847+14+138 ] score=1763 bonus=226 total=1989 ====== 19 joel64 10.3/10.3/8.3 2010-10-11+07:14:00-0000 [ joel64:847+194+19+14+97+138 ] score=1958 bonus=235 total=2193 ====== 20 champagne 9.5/9.5/9.5 2010-10-11+07:15:00-0000 [ champagne:129+128+20+104 joel64:1041+14+138 ] score=2087 bonus=242 total=2329 ====== 21 joel64 9.1/9.1/9.1 2010-10-11+07:19:00-0000 [ joel64:1041+123+21+14+110+138 ] score=2211 bonus=248 total=2459 ====== 22 champagne 8.5/8.5/8.5 2010-10-11+07:20:00-0000 [ champagne:257+115+22+108 joel64:1164+14+138 ] score=2175 bonus=246 total=2421 ====== 23 joel64 9.0/9.0/9.0 2010-10-11+07:27:00-0000 [ joel64:1164+124+23+14+107+138 ] score=2158 bonus=245 total=2403 ====== 24 champagne 10.0/10.0/10.0 2010-10-11+07:48:00-0000 [ champagne:372+140+24+114 joel64:1288+14+138 ] score=2299 bonus=252 total=2551 ====== 25 joel64 8.9/8.9/8.9 2010-10-11+07:55:00-0000 [ joel64:1288+124+25+14+114+138 ] score=2287 bonus=252 total=2539 ====== 26 champagne 7.8/7.8/7.8 2010-10-11+09:09:00-0000 [ champagne:512+109+26+119 joel64:1412+14+138 ] score=2397 bonus=257 total=2654 ====== 27 joel64 8.4/8.4/8.4 2010-10-11+09:12:00-0000 [ joel64:1412+118+27+14+125+138 ] score=2516 bonus=263 total=2779 ====== 28 champagne 7.2/7.2/7.2 2010-10-11+09:53:00-0000 [ champagne:621+101+28+130 joel64:1530+14+138 ] score=2618 bonus=268 total=2886 ====== 29 joel64 7.3/7.3/7.3 2010-10-11+10:05:00-0000 [ joel64:1530+104+29+14+136+138 ] score=2723 bonus=274 total=2997 ====== 30 champagne 7.6/7.6/7.6 2010-10-11+10:17:00-0000 [ champagne:722+110+30+141 joel64:1634+14+138 ] score=2834 bonus=279 total=3113 ====== 31 joel64 3.4/3.4/3.4 2010-10-11+10:21:00-0000 [ joel64:1634+48+31+14+144+138 ] score=2883 bonus=282 total=3165 ====== 32 ronk 4.5/4.5/3.4 2010-10-11+10:42:00-0000 [ joel64:1682+14+138 ronk:0+54+32+146 ] score=2938 bonus=284 total=3222 ====== 33 joel64 10.6/10.6/3.4 2010-10-11+10:43:00-0000 [ joel64:1682+86+33+33+152+301 ] score=3044 bonus=453 total=3497 ====== 34 champagne 3.8/3.8/3.8 2010-10-11+11:10:00-0000 [ champagne:832+57+34+155 joel64:1768+33+301 ] score=3102 bonus=456 total=3558 ====== 35 joel64 2.5/2.5/2.5 2010-10-11+11:14:00-0000 [ joel64:1768+38+35+33+157+301 ] score=3141 bonus=458 total=3599 ====== 36 champagne 10.5/10.5/10.0 2010-10-11+11:37:00-0000 [ champagne:889+154+36+156 joel64:1645+33+301 ] score=3135 bonus=457 total=3592 ====== 37 ronk 8.3/8.3/8.3 2010-10-11+11:42:00-0000 [ joel64:1645+33+301 ronk:54+127+37+163 ] score=3263 bonus=464 total=3727 ====== 38 joel64 10.2/10.2/7.8 2010-10-11+11:57:00-0000 [ joel64:1645+208+38+33+173+301 ] score=3472 bonus=474 total=3946 ====== 39 champagne 9.8/9.8/9.8 2010-10-11+12:39:00-0000 [ champagne:1043+152+39+181 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=3625 bonus=482 total=4107 ====== 40 gsf 2.8/2.8/2.8 2010-10-11+13:00:00-0000 [ gsf:324+48+40+183 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=3674 bonus=484 total=4158 ====== 41 champagne 8.8/8.8/8.8 2010-10-11+13:09:00-0000 [ champagne:1195+139+41+190 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=3814 bonus=491 total=4305 ====== 41 champagne 7.2/7.2/7.2 2010-10-11+09:53:00-0000 [ champagne:1334+41+188 joel64:1853+33+301 surbier:0-50 ] score=3764 bonus=489 total=4253 ====== 42 gsf 8.6/8.3/6.7 2010-10-11+13:18:00-0000 [ gsf:372+191+42+197 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=3956 bonus=498 total=4454 ====== 43 ronk 8.6/8.6/7.2 2010-10-11+13:31:00-0000 [ joel64:1853+33+301 ronk:181+124+43+196 ] score=3920 bonus=497 total=4417 ====== 44 gsf 8.7/8.3/3.4 2010-10-11+13:35:00-0000 [ gsf:402+160+44+204 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4081 bonus=505 total=4586 ====== 45 ronk 8.7/8.7/3.4 2010-10-11+14:01:00-0000 [ joel64:1853+33+301 ronk:305+88+45+202 ] score=4040 bonus=503 total=4543 ====== 46 gsf 8.2/7.2/7.1 2010-10-11+14:01:00-0000 [ gsf:432+194+46+211 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4235 bonus=512 total=4747 ====== 47 champagne 7.7/7.6/4.4 2010-10-11+14:02:00-0000 [ champagne:1334+170+47+220 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4406 bonus=521 total=4927 ====== 48 ronk 8.2/8.2/3.4 2010-10-11+14:14:00-0000 [ joel64:1853+33+301 ronk:393+89+48+216 ] score=4332 bonus=517 total=4849 ====== 49 champagne 7.9/6.6/3.4 2010-10-11+14:15:00-0000 [ champagne:1504+157+49+224 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4490 bonus=525 total=5015 ====== 50 gsf 6.7/3.4/2.8 2010-10-11+14:18:00-0000 [ gsf:462+136+50+231 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4627 bonus=532 total=5159 ====== 51 champagne 7.5/7.1/6.7 2010-10-11+14:28:00-0000 [ champagne:1661+194+51+241 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4822 bonus=542 total=5364 ====== 52 ronk 7.9/7.9/3.4 2010-10-11+14:29:00-0000 [ joel64:1853+33+301 ronk:482+91+52+239 ] score=4787 bonus=540 total=5327 ====== 53 gsf 7.4/7.2/3.4 2010-10-11+14:36:00-0000 [ gsf:598+164+53+247 joel64:1853+33+301 ] score=4952 bonus=548 total=5500 ====== 54 ronk 7.7/7.7/3.4 2010-10-11+14:41:00-0000 [ joel64:1853+33+301 ronk:573+92+54+245 ] score=4905 bonus=546 total=5451 ====== 55 champagne 10.4/10.4/9.9 2010-10-11+14:43:00-0000 [ champagne:1588+171+55+245 joel64:1689+33+301 ] score=4913 bonus=546 total=5459 ====== 56 ronk 7.4/7.4/3.8 2010-10-11+14:54:00-0000 [ joel64:1689+33+301 ronk:665+97+56+243 ] score=4867 bonus=544 total=5411 ====== 57 gsf 10.6/10.6/9.4 2010-10-11+14:55:00-0000 [ gsf:618+244+57+57+252+507 ] score=5050 bonus=759 total=5809 ====== 58 champagne 10.3/10.3/9.9 2010-10-11+14:55:00-0000 [ champagne:1759+174+58+253 gsf:862+57+507 ] score=5061 bonus=760 total=5821 ====== 58 ronk 8.3/8.3/8.3 2010-10-11+11:42:00-0000 [ champagne:1933+58+250 gsf:862+57+507 surbier:-50-50 ] score=5011 bonus=757 total=5768 ====== 59 champagne 10.6/10.6/9.9 2010-10-11+14:59:00-0000 [ champagne:1933+176+59+59+247+513 ] score=4956 bonus=760 total=5716 ====== 60 joel64 10.7/10.7/9.8 2010-10-11+16:07:00-0000 [ joel64:1439+252+60+60+260+515 ] score=5210 bonus=775 total=5985 ====== 61 ronk 10.3/10.3/10.0 2010-10-11+17:40:00-0000 [ joel64:1691+60+515 ronk:762+253+61+264 ] score=5290 bonus=779 total=6069 ====== 62 joel64 10.5/10.5/10.5 2010-10-11+17:54:00-0000 [ joel64:1691+185+62+60+266+515 ] score=5322 bonus=781 total=6103 ====== 63 ronk 7.5/7.5/3.4 2010-10-11+18:08:00-0000 [ joel64:1876+60+515 ronk:1015+100+63+262 ] score=5259 bonus=777 total=6036 ====== 64 joel64 10.4/10.4/10.4 2010-10-11+18:19:00-0000 [ joel64:1876+185+64+60+263+515 ] score=5274 bonus=778 total=6052 ====== 65 champagne 3.0/3.0/3.0 2010-10-11+18:40:00-0000 [ champagne:1446+76+65+267 joel64:2061+60+515 ] score=5351 bonus=782 total=6133 ====== 66 joel64 9.6/9.6/9.6 2010-10-11+18:41:00-0000 [ joel64:2061+176+66+60+276+515 ] score=5528 bonus=791 total=6319 ====== 67 champagne 10.2/10.2/10.2 2010-10-11+19:51:00-0000 [ champagne:1522+261+67+280 joel64:2059+60+515 ] score=5612 bonus=795 total=6407 ====== 68 joel64 10.8/10.8/9.9 2010-10-11+19:54:00-0000 [ joel64:2059+261+68+68+294+581 ] score=5882 bonus=875 total=6757 ====== 69 champagne 10.3/10.3/10.3 2010-10-12+00:34:00-0000 [ champagne:1783+264+69+295 joel64:2320+68+581 ] score=5914 bonus=876 total=6790 ====== 70 ronk 4.4/4.4/3.4 2010-10-12+01:39:00-0000 [ joel64:2320+68+581 ronk:882+92+70+300 ] score=6007 bonus=881 total=6888 ====== 71 gsf 3.2/3.2/3.2 2010-10-12+01:39:00-0000 [ gsf:628+85+71+304 joel64:2320+68+581 ] score=6093 bonus=885 total=6978 ====== 72 ronk 4.2/4.2/3.4 2010-10-12+03:14:00-0000 [ joel64:2320+68+581 ronk:974+93+72+309 ] score=6187 bonus=890 total=7077 ====== 73 gsf 8.0/3.4/3.4 2010-10-12+03:15:00-0000 [ gsf:713+165+73+317 joel64:2320+68+581 ] score=6353 bonus=898 total=7251 ====== 74 joel64 10.6/10.6/10.0 2010-10-12+04:21:00-0000 [ joel64:2320+268+74+68+322+581 ] score=6446 bonus=903 total=7349 ====== 75 Pat 1.7/1.2/1.2 2010-10-12+08:41:00-0000 [ Pat:0+75+75+326 joel64:2588+68+581 ] score=6522 bonus=907 total=7429 ====== 76 ronk 8.0/7.6/3.4 2010-10-12+09:38:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 ronk:1067+189+76+328 ] score=6567 bonus=909 total=7476 ====== 77 Pat 2.3/1.2/1.2 2010-10-12+09:41:00-0000 [ Pat:75+77+77+332 joel64:2588+68+581 ] score=6645 bonus=913 total=7558 ====== 78 ronk 6.7/6.7/3.4 2010-10-12+09:53:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 ronk:1256+111+78+332 ] score=6651 bonus=913 total=7564 ====== 79 Pat 2.6/1.2/1.2 2010-10-12+09:57:00-0000 [ Pat:152+79+79+336 joel64:2588+68+581 ] score=6731 bonus=917 total=7648 ====== 80 ronk 2.3/2.0/2.0 2010-10-12+10:00:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 ronk:1367+80+80+336 ] score=6735 bonus=917 total=7652 ====== 81 Pat 5.6/1.2/1.2 2010-10-12+10:00:00-0000 [ Pat:154+81+81+340 joel64:2588+68+581 ] score=6817 bonus=921 total=7738 ====== 82 ronk 2.6/2.0/2.0 2010-10-12+10:05:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 ronk:1447+82+82+341 ] score=6821 bonus=922 total=7743 ====== 83 Pat 6.8/1.2/1.2 2010-10-12+10:06:00-0000 [ Pat:156+83+83+345 joel64:2588+68+581 ] score=6905 bonus=926 total=7831 ====== 84 ronk 6.8/6.8/3.0 2010-10-12+10:17:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 ronk:1529+114+84+346 ] score=6937 bonus=927 total=7864 ====== 85 surbier 7.0/1.2/1.2 2010-10-12+11:03:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 surbier:-100+85+85+351 ] score=7023 bonus=932 total=7955 ====== 86 ronk 7.0/7.0/3.4 2010-10-12+12:14:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+68+581 ronk:1643+121+86+353 ] score=7060 bonus=934 total=7994 ====== 87 joel64 10.1/10.1/10.0 2010-10-12+13:16:00-0000 [ joel64:2588+278+87+68+366+581 ] score=7339 bonus=947 total=8286 ====== 88 ronk 4.6/4.6/3.4 2010-10-12+13:46:00-0000 [ joel64:2866+68+581 ronk:1764+111+88+372 ] score=7451 bonus=953 total=8404 ====== 89 joel64 8.6/8.6/8.5 2010-10-12+14:08:00-0000 [ joel64:2866+183+89+68+375+581 ] score=7511 bonus=956 total=8467 ====== 90 gsf 8.7/8.7/7.8 2010-10-12+14:56:00-0000 [ gsf:627+177+90+380 joel64:3049+68+581 ] score=7601 bonus=961 total=8562 ====== 91 joel64 8.2/8.2/7.8 2010-10-12+15:10:00-0000 [ joel64:3049+176+91+68+384+581 ] score=7689 bonus=965 total=8654 ====== 92 ronk 8.7/8.7/8.2 2010-10-12+15:11:00-0000 [ joel64:3225+68+581 ronk:1574+183+92+384 ] score=7696 bonus=965 total=8661 ====== 93 joel64 4.0/4.0/3.0 2010-10-12+15:14:00-0000 [ joel64:3225+109+93+68+390+581 ] score=7806 bonus=971 total=8777 ====== 94 gsf 7.7/7.7/7.2 2010-10-12+15:14:00-0000 [ gsf:627+170+94+394 joel64:3334+68+581 ] score=7885 bonus=975 total=8860 ====== 95 ronk 6.9/6.6/6.6 2010-10-12+15:19:00-0000 [ joel64:3334+68+581 ronk:1665+160+95+402 ] score=8046 bonus=983 total=9029 ====== 96 joel64 6.7/6.7/3.8 2010-10-12+15:23:00-0000 [ joel64:3334+133+96+68+403+581 ] score=8069 bonus=984 total=9053 ====== 97 gsf 7.4/7.4/7.3 2010-10-12+15:31:00-0000 [ gsf:797+173+97+407 joel64:3467+68+581 ] score=8146 bonus=988 total=9134 ====== 98 joel64 5.6/4.2/3.0 2010-10-12+15:34:00-0000 [ joel64:3467+115+98+68+409+581 ] score=8181 bonus=990 total=9171 ====== 99 ronk 5.0/5.0/3.8 2010-10-12+16:16:00-0000 [ joel64:3582+68+581 ronk:1617+203+99+419 ] score=8385 bonus=1000 total=9385 ====== 100 joel64 8.7/8.7/8.3 2010-10-12+16:46:00-0000 [ joel64:3582+192+100+68+419+581 ] score=8395 bonus=1000 total=9395 ====== 101 champagne 10.7/10.7/10.5 2010-10-12+20:14:00-0000 [ champagne:1871+300+101+423 joel64:3552+68+581 ] score=8474 bonus=1004 total=9478 ===`
gsf
2014 Supporter

Posts: 7306
Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: NJ USA

### Re: Patterns Game referee

we seem to be running out of interesting games that meet the dealer submission criteria
g.r.emlin's recent flaky behaviour is most likely related to this

so lets discuss modifying the dealer submission criteria
here's my first shot

we can relax the symmetry constraint
but that should somehow be tied to proof that the pattern contains interesting ERs
maybe a non-symmetric dealer entry with low ER would need to be accompanied by
a companion puzzle with interesting ER, say >= 10.0/10.0/10.0 or whatever
g.r.emlin would use the companion puzzle for verification but would not reveal it to the other players
gsf
2014 Supporter

Posts: 7306
Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: NJ USA

### Re: Patterns Game referee

gsf wrote:we seem to be running out of interesting games that meet the dealer submission criteria
g.r.emlin's recent flaky behaviour is most likely related to this

so lets discuss modifying the dealer submission criteria
here's my first shot

we can relax the symmetry constraint
but that should somehow be tied to proof that the pattern contains interesting ERs
maybe a non-symmetric dealer entry with low ER would need to be accompanied by
a companion puzzle with interesting ER, say >= 10.0/10.0/10.0 or whatever
g.r.emlin would use the companion puzzle for verification but would not reveal it to the other players

You know I am strongly in favour of relaxing the symmetry constraint.

It open widely the scope,
We should have many more puzzles to generate, but existing programs can manage that
this would not prevent anybody to submit a symmetric puzzle of interest ...

The rule so far has been to rely on peoples supplying puzzles to propose something of interest.

That rule failed several times, but I would not add complexity in the system, what does not prevent to ask suppliers to make carefully the check.

In fact, to be challenging, a puzzle should have many high ED's, but not easy to find...

you know I would also be in favour of paying rarity bonus on a limited past (say 30 to 50 last games) to be more attractive for newcomers

champagne
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 6547
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Patterns Game referee

gsf, how many essentially different symmetric patterns are there? And how many of those would make interesting subjects for the Patterns Game? I certainly don't know, but the notion that this number is anywhere near the 170 played so far strikes me as absurd.

I think the first problem is that too many people have been thinking the same, concentrating on "the diagonals" and slight variations therefrom. The second problem is that while a lot of computer horsepower has been put into playing the game, very few of those players put much effort into finding new patterns for the game. Of the current and recent players, for example, only you, m_b_metcalf and Pat have more than 6 submissions.
ronk
2012 Supporter

Posts: 4764
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Location: Southeastern USA

### Re: Patterns Game referee

this is off topic, but I can not access the last page of the thread interactive game since yesterday evening!!
I see the page 1269 exists, but I am locked on page 1268

Is there any explication

champagne
champagne
2017 Supporter

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Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Patterns Game referee

champagne, I am not having any problems accessing any of the pages of the Patterns Game topic. What message/behavior are you seeing when you try to access page 1268?

JasonLion
2017 Supporter

Posts: 640
Joined: 25 October 2007
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA

### Re: Patterns Game referee

JasonLion wrote:champagne, I am not having any problems accessing any of the pages of the Patterns Game topic. What message/behavior are you seeing when you try to access page 1268?

the last one I can access is from mike dated 19 12.04 pm

champagne
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 6547
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Patterns Game referee

JasonLion wrote:champagne, I am not having any problems accessing any of the pages of the Patterns Game topic. What message/behavior are you seeing when you try to access page 1268?

but it came back to normal after I posted a short message in the thread !!!

champagne
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 6547
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany