## Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

Programs which generate, solve, and analyze Sudoku puzzles

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

champagne wrote:
ronk wrote:champagne, does your skfr get a 7.7 rating for any of these?
here is the rating of skfr for that lot

Thanks ... and that meets my needs without further analysis on your part. I'll add details to this post with an edit a bit later.
ronk
2012 Supporter

Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

Another perspective of champagne's networks: based on the assumption 8r7c6

Code: Select all
` +-----------------------------------+ |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  8  .  .  | |  .  .  .  |  .  8  .  |  .  .  .  | | *8 *8  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  | |-----------+-----------+-----------| |  8  8 @8  | @8  .  .  |  .  . @8  | |  8  . @8  | @8  .  8  |  .  . @8  | | *8 *8  .  |  .  . -8  |  .  .  .  | |-----------+-----------+-----------| |  .  8 -8  |  .  . +8  |  .  .  .  | |  .  .  .  |  .  .  .  |  .  8  .  | | *8 *8  .  | -8  .  .  |  .  .  .  | +-----------------------------------+8r7c6 => -8r6c6,r9c4 => 8r369c12 (* invalid)-or-8r7c6 => -8r7c3,r9c4 => 8r45c349 (@ invalid)`

Either way, we get: r7c6<>8 => r9c4=8 => r45c4,r9c12<>8
daj95376
2014 Supporter

Posts: 2624
Joined: 15 May 2006

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

daj95376 wrote:Another perspective of champagne's networks: based on the assumption 8r7c6

8r7c6 => -8r6c6,r9c4 => 8r369c12 (* invalid)
-or-
8r7c6 => -8r7c3,r9c4 => 8r45c349 (@ invalid)

Either way, we get: r7c6<>8 => r9c4=8 => r45c4,r9c12<>8

This is the kind of quick and nice exit i would add to my solver, but it's requiring time.

may be later!!!!

champagne
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 7260
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

FWIW: My solver used a finned Swordfish and/or a grouped 2-String Kite as the first step(s) in all of these puzzles.

Update: One puzzle used an Empty Rectangle as the first step. However, finned Swordfish were also present.
daj95376
2014 Supporter

Posts: 2624
Joined: 15 May 2006

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

daj95376 wrote:FWIW: My solver used a finned Swordfish and/or a grouped 2-String Kite as the first step(s) in all of these puzzles.

Update: One puzzle used an Empty Rectangle as the first step. However, finned Swordfish were also present.

This is not a surprise.

Here below the file of 7.7 skfr diamonds I stored in my last pattern game.

As far as i can see, they all have very similar pattern.

Anyway, to get a 7.7 or 7.8 rating, it must be a relatively simple "Nishio pattern"

champagne

PS I'll show in a separate post a slightly different path

Hidden Text: Show
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..7..5...71....65..4.........2..8...3..1..9
2.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....45...3..7..8...76....13..1.........9..3...9..2..6
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..3...41....62..3.........2..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..1..8...46....92..9.........6..2...3..7..1
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....35...2..7..6...81....32..3.........8..2...1..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....32...1..7..6...85....31..3.........8..1...4..2..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..7..3...41....52..9.........2..8...1..4..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..7..5...71....65..4.........2..8...1..6..3
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....69...3..7..6...42....13..1.........3..8...2..4..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..7..5...21....65..2.........3..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...5..7..3...21....63..2.........5..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....92...1..7..6...74....51..8.........5..1...2..3..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....94...2..7..6...71....52..8.........5..2...1..3..8
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..7..4...21....61..6.........3..8...5..2..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....43...2..7..4...56....92..9.........2..8...4..5..1
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....69...3..7..5...72....15..4.........3..8...2..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....94...2..7..6...71....52..5.........9..2...1..8..4
1.....4...3..4......5..6..7.....76...8..3..4...29....58..5.........1..8...1..2..6
5.....8...7..6......9..4..3.....94...2..7..6...71....52..5.........3..2...1..8..9
9.....6...7..6......5..7..3.....29...4..7..1...83....58..5.........1..6...2..9..1
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..9...75....61..6.........2..8...9..4..3
9.....1...7..6......5..4..3.....94...2..7..6...74....52..5.........3..2...1..8..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....32...1..7..3...46....91..9.........1..8...3..4..2
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....36...2..7..9...75....12..1.........3..2...4..8..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..7..4...21....62..5.........3..8...1..6..2
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....73...2..9..8...41....62..6.........7..2...7..3..5
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....24...1..7..3...83....51..5.........1..6...2..8..9
9.....7...7..6......5..4..8.....94...3..2..7...81....23..5.........3..2...1..8..9
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....94...2..7..6...31....52..5.........1..2...1..7..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..1...46....92..9.........2..8...1..4..3
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....32...1..7..8...46....51..9.........6..1...3..4..2
9.....7...7..6......6..4..3.....24...1..8..7...83....51..5.........1..4...2..8..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...73....52..5.........8..2...8..4..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...74....12..5.........8..2...1..3..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....64...2..7..9...71....52..5.........8..2...3..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....65...3..7..6...72....93..5.........8..3...4..1..5
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...74....52..3.........8..2...1..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....26...1..7..2...79....51..2.........1..4...3..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..7..4...52....16..1.........3..8...2..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...73....52..9.........8..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....69...3..7..6...42....13..1.........3..8...2..7..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..2..4...51....63..7.........3..8...1..2..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....32...1..7..8...46....91..9.........6..1...3..7..2
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..6..3...41....62..5.........2..8...1..4..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....32...1..7..6...75....31..3.........8..1...8..2..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...71....52..9.........1..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....86...2..7..9...76....52..3.........8..2...1..5..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....64...2..7..6...71....52..9.........8..2...3..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....43...2..7..6...73....52..5.........8..2...8..1..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..2.....45...3..7..8...76....13..1.........9..3...9..2..6
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....39...2..7..6...81....52..9.........8..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....46...3..7..2...15....92..6.........3..8...4..1..6
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..7..2...51....62..9.........3..8...1..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....35...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...4..1..5
9.....8...7..6......8..5..4.....35...2..7..6...71....92..9.........1..2...3..4..1
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....85...3..7..6...72....13..1.........8..3...8..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....43...2..7..4...51....63..4.........2..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..3...41....62..6.........2..8...1..7..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....43...2..7..6...73....52..5.........8..2...6..3..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...5..9..8...42....97..6.........7..1...3..4..6
9.....8...7..6......5..4..6.....86...3..7..9...72....53..1.........8..3...2..5..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....83...2..7..6...71....52..9.........8..2...1..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...2..9..8...14....97..6.........7..2...3..1..6
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....43...2..7..4...51....63..9.........2..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....92...1..7..6...74....51..5.........4..1...3..2..9
1.....7...7..6......5..4..3.....34...2..9..7...81....62..5.........2..1...9..8..4
9.....8...7..6......5..1..3.....94...2..7..6...71....52..5.........3..2...4..8..9
9.....6...7..6......5..9..3.....32...1..7..6...89....41..5.........2..1...4..8..5
9.....6...7..6......5..9..4.....49...3..7..2...81....53..5.........3..6...7..2..1
6.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....21...6..7..4...83....51..5.........9..1...9..8..2
9.....6...7..6......8..4..3.....84...2..7..9...35....12..1.........2..6...7..3..4
4.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....34...1..7..9...82....51..5.........1..6...9..8..7
6.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....21...6..7..4...83....51..5.........9..1...7..8..2
9.....3...7..6......5..4..8.....34...1..7..9...82....51..6.........1..6...2..8..7
9.....7...7..6......5..4..3.....34...2..9..7...81....62..5.........2..1...6..8..4
5.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....43...2..9..8...51....62..6.........7..2...7..3..5
9.....8...7..8......6..3..4.....65...3..7..9...24....15..1.........9..8...9..2..6
9.....8...7..8......6..3..2.....45...3..7..9...26....15..1.........9..8...9..2..4
9.....8...7..8......1..5..4.....35...2..7..8...31....62..6.........9..2...9..4..5
9.....6...7..6......5..4..9.....34...2..7..9...81....53..5.........9..6...2..8..1
9.....8...7..8......1..5..4.....45...2..9..8...31....62..6.........7..2...7..3..5
9.....6...1..6......5..4..7.....34...2..9..6...87....52..5.........1..2...3..8..9
1.....4...3..4......5..6..9.....76...8..3..4...29....58..5.........1..8...3..2..6
1.....9...3..4......5..6..7.....75...8..3..1...29....68..5.........1..8...1..2..4
1.....2...3..4......5..6..9.....76...8..2..1...29....58..5.........8..3...3..2..4
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....35...1..7..9...82....41..5.........1..6...2..8..7
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....92...1..7..6...83....51..5.........2..1...4..8..7
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....34...1..7..9...82....51..5.........1..6...2..9..4
9.....7...7..6......5..4..8.....24...1..9..7...63....51..5.........1..4...2..8..9
9.....6...7..6......3..4..8.....34...2..1..6...87....52..5.........9..2...9..8..4
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....43...2..9..8...51....67..6.........7..2...2..3..5
2.....8...3..8......6..5..4.....43...2..9..7...51....61..6.........7..8...7..3..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..8...31....62..6.........9..2...1..4..7
9.....7...7..3......6..4..3.....24...1..9..7...83....51..5.........1..4...2..8..9
9.....7...7..6......5..4..3.....24...1..9..7...86....51..5.........1..4...3..8..9
9.....7...7..3......5..4..3.....24...6..9..7...83....56..5.........6..4...2..8..9
9.....6...7..6......5..8..3.....94...2..7..6...31....52..5.........3..2...1..4..9
9.....7...2..6......5..7..3.....26...8..7..9...41....58..5.........9..8...9..3..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....94...2..7..6...71....52..8.........3..2...1..5..9
9.....8...7..6......2..4..3.....32...1..7..6...79....41..5.........2..1...4..8..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..2.....45...3..7..9...26....15..1.........9..8...9..2..4
9.....8...1..8......6..7..4.....45...3..7..8...26....15..1.........9..5...9..2..6
9.....8...4..8......6..7..4.....45...3..7..8...26....15..1.........9..5...9..2..6
9.....1...7..3......5..4..3.....26...8..7..9...41....58..5.........9..8...9..6..4
6.....8...7..6......5..1..3.....24...6..1..9...83....51..5.........4..7...2..8..9
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....24...1..7..2...83....51..5.........1..6...2..8..9
9.....1...7..2......5..4..3.....26...8..7..9...41....58..5.........9..8...9..6..4
9.....8...7..3......6..5..4.....35...2..7..9...31....62..8.........9..2...9..4..1
9.....8...7..1......6..5..4.....15...3..7..9...26....13..8.........9..3...9..2..6
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....43...2..9..8...91....67..6.........7..2...1..3..5
6.....4...7..6......5..4..3.....21...6..7..4...73....51..5.........9..1...2..8..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..8...71....62..6.........9..2...9..4..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....16...2..7..9...75....42..1.........3..2...4..8..5
9.....6...2..6......5..4..3.....34...1..7..9...84....51..5.........1..6...2..8..7
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....26...1..7..9...75....41..9.........8..1...9..3..2
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....92...1..7..6...83....51..5.........2..1...4..8..2
9.....5...7..6......1..4..3.....26...8..7..9...41....28..5.........9..8...9..3..4
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....38...2..1..6...87....52..5.........9..2...9..7..4
6.....8...2..6......5..4..3.....21...6..7..4...83....51..7.........9..1...2..8..9
9.....1...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..9...31....62..3.........9..2...9..4..8
9.....8...3..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..8...31....62..6.........9..2...9..4..5
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....37...2..1..6...87....52..1.........9..2...9..8..4
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....15...3..7..8...26....13..1.........9..3...9..2..5
9.....6...3..6......5..4..3.....34...1..7..9...84....51..5.........1..6...2..8..7
9.....7...7..6......5..1..3.....31...2..9..7...81....52..5.........2..1...9..8..4
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....35...2..7..8...31....62..6.........9..2...9..1..5
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....21...8..7..6...41....58..5.........9..8...9..3..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..1.....36...2..9..3...81....52..5.........2..7...7..8..4
9.....8...7..8......1..5..4.....35...2..7..8...41....62..6.........9..2...9..4..3
9.....6...7..6......5..4..3.....32...1..7..9...82....51..5.........1..6...4..8..7
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....51..9.........2..1...4..8..9
9.....8...7..6......8..9..5.....43...2..7..6...71....42..4.........9..2...5..3..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....85...2..7..6...73....12..9.........8..2...4..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....29...1..7..6...73....51..9.........2..1...4..5..8
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....96...3..2..8...51....73..7.........9..3...1..6..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....63...2..7..6...75....92..4.........8..2...4..9..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....93...2..1..8...56....72..7.........9..2...3..4..6
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....81..5.........2..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....96...3..7..8...52....13..1.........9..3...2..4..6
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....91..4.........2..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....41..2.........8..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....69...2..7..6...71....52..9.........8..2...8..5..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....65...2..7..6...71....92..9.........8..2...4..3..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....65...2..7..6...73....92..9.........8..2...4..5..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....85...2..7..6...74....12..1.........8..2...8..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....81..9.........2..1...4..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....72...1..4..6...32....51..7.........9..1...9..5..8
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....54...2..7..6...74....92..3.........8..2...1..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....52...1..7..6...72....91..3.........8..1...4..9..2
9.....8...7..6......5..8..4.....43...2..7..6...73....92..5.........8..2...1..9..3
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....46...3..7..2...25....12..4.........9..8...3..1..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....52...1..7..6...72....91..4.........8..1...6..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....82...1..7..6...73....41..5.........8..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....32...1..7..6...72....91..5.........2..1...4..9..8
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....86...2..9..7...91....52..5.........8..2...3..1..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....72...1..4..6...32....51..7.........3..1...8..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....72...1..4..6...92....51..7.........3..1...3..5..8
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....72...1..4..6...92....51..7.........8..1...3..5..8
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....83...2..7..6...73....12..1.........5..2...4..3..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....92...1..7..6...72....81..5.........4..1...3..2..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....92...1..7..6...72....51..8.........4..1...3..2..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....32...1..7..6...72....41..5.........8..1...4..2..5
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....64...3..7..6...72....53..5.........8..3...2..1..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..7..5...71....65..4.........2..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....94...2..7..6...71....52..8.........5..2...1..3..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....49...3..7..4...21....65..2.........3..8...1..6..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....84...2..7..6...71....52..3.........8..2...1..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....64...2..7..6...79....12..5.........8..2...1..3..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...74....91..2.........8..1...3..9..5
9.....8...7..9......6..8..5.....43...9..7..4...72....62..4.........3..8...5..6..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....84...2..4..6...79....12..5.........8..2...3..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...78....51..5.........9..1...3..2..4
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....64...3..7..6...72....53..5.........8..3...1..2..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...8..1..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....64...2..7..6...74....52..5.........8..2...3..1..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....32...2..7..8...91....54..6.........3..2...5..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...71....52..8.........1..2...4..3..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....64...2..7..6...73....12..5.........8..2...1..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....67...2..1..6...13....52..7.........3..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..8..4.....32...1..7..6...74....51..9.........8..1...3..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...2..1..8...74....52..3.........9..2...5..1..3
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....76...3..2..8...14....53..7.........9..3...5..2..7
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....76...3..2..8...24....53..7.........9..3...5..2..7
9.....8...7..6......5..8..4.....93...2..7..6...73....52..5.........9..2...4..3..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....24...1..7..9...75....21..2.........8..1...3..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....24...1..9..7...23....51..7.........1..8...7..5..6
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....69...2..7..6...73....52..8.........3..2...4..5..1
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....32...1..7..8...46....91..9.........6..1...3..4..2
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....91..2.........3..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....51..2.........3..1...4..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...72....91..8.........2..1...4..9..8
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....82...1..7..9...76....51..5.........8..1...3..2..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....32...1..7..6...72....51..4.........8..1...4..2..9
9.....8...7..6......6..5..4.....83...2..9..7...93....12..1.........8..2...4..3..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....62...1..7..6...73....41..5.........3..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....69...2..7..6...73....52..9.........8..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....89...2..7..6...73....42..5.........8..2...4..1..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....76...3..9..8...52....13..6.........7..3...1..4..2
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....65...2..7..6...73....12..9.........8..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....65...2..7..6...73....12..9.........8..2...4..1..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....65...2..7..6...73....92..1.........8..2...4..9..1
9.....8...8..9......7..6..5.....54...9..3..8...21....73..6.........5..1...6..4..2
9.....8...7..6......5..8..4.....63...2..7..6...71....52..8.........3..2...9..5..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....59...2..1..7...67....42..9.........8..2...3..1..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....65...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...4..9..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....69...2..7..6...73....52..9.........8..2...8..5..1
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...2..1..8...14....52..3.........9..2...5..1..3
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....73...2..9..8...13....62..6.........7..2...4..3..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....26...1..7..9...75....21..9.........8..1...9..3..4
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....46...3..7..2...53....12..4.........9..8...1..5..4
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....64...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...3..9..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...2..7..8...74....52..3.........9..2...5..1..3
9.....8...7..6......5..9..4.....63...2..7..6...71....52..8.........9..2...4..3..9
9.....8...8..9......7..6..5.....54...9..3..8...21....73..7.........5..1...6..4..2
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....75...3..2..8...15....63..1.........9..3...4..6..9
9.....8...7..9......6..8..5.....54...9..7..5...32....12..6.........4..8...5..1..3
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....43...2..7..6...81....92..5.........8..2...3..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....35...2..7..6...84....12..5.........9..2...1..8..3
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....35...2..9..1...81....42..6.........2..7...4..8..9
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....53...2..7..6...83....92..4.........8..2...1..9..5
9.....8...8..9......7..6..5.....54...9..3..8...21....73..2.........5..1...6..4..2
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....29...1..7..6...73....51..2.........8..1...4..5..9
9.....8...7..9......6..5..4.....85...9..5..3...26....11..2.........7..1...4..3..6
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....32...1..7..6...72....91..4.........8..1...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....72...1..4..6...92....51..7.........8..1...3..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..7..5.....46...3..7..2...25....12..4.........9..8...1..6..4
9.....8...7..8......6..9..5.....64...3..7..8...52....13..9.........6..3...2..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....32...1..7..6...82....91..4.........8..1...3..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....53...2..7..6...84....12..3.........9..2...1..8..5
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....35...2..7..6...84....92..5.........8..2...1..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....45...3..7..6...82....93..5.........8..3...2..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....45...3..7..6...82....93..5.........8..3...1..9..2
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....35...2..7..6...71....42..5.........8..2...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....35...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...4..9..1
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....43...2..7..6...83....92..5.........8..2...1..3..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....35...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...4..1..5
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....37...2..1..6...14....52..9.........8..2...3..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....53...2..7..6...83....92..1.........8..2...1..4..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...2..7..8...74....12..3.........9..2...5..1..3
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....29...1..7..6...73....51..2.........8..1...8..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..8..4.....45...3..7..6...72....93..5.........8..3...1..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....39...2..7..6...71....52..5.........8..2...6..1..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....37...2..5..8...17....63..1.........9..2...4..6..9
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....82...1..7..6...79....51..2.........3..1...3..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..7..8...34....61..3.........9..2...5..6..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....32...1..9..8...32....61..6.........3..1...4..2..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....46...3..2..8...51....73..7.........9..3...1..6..2
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....43...2..6..8...51....72..7.........9..2...1..3..5
9.....8...7..9......6..5..4.....43...9..8..5...21....67..6.........7..3...1..2..8
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..6..1...34....52..7.........2..8...5..9..6
9.....8...8..7......6..5..4.....39...2..6..8...34....52..7.........2..1...5..9..6
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....53...2..7..6...81....92..3.........8..2...1..9..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....39...2..6..8...37....52..6.........1..2...5..9..6
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....34...2..7..6...71....92..5.........8..2...6..9..5
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....76...3..2..8...51....73..7.........9..3...1..6..2
9.....8...7..8......6..5..7.....43...2..6..8...57....42..4.........9..2...7..3..6
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....39...2..7..6...84....52..1.........8..2...1..5..9
9.....8...7..6......5..7..4.....43...2..7..6...85....92..1.........8..2...3..9..1
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....35...2..7..6...71....92..4.........8..2...4..9..5
9.....8...7..6......5..4..3.....67...2..8..6...13....52..7.........1..2...4..5..9
9.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....36...2..7..9...34....12..6.........2..8...1..9..5
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 7260
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

Here is the second puzzle in the list.

In that puzzle (rated 7.8 by SE), skfr finds 8 eliminations rated 7.7.

A quick check through the log file shows either 4 eliminations or 8 eliminations for each puzzle of the file given in the previous post.
(subject to a deeper check)

contrary to daj's one, my solver does not look for more than the basic fishes, so it would start with a chain.

champagne

Code: Select all
`2      1459   1345  |3479  1346 13679 |8     15679 3579  1459   7      1345  |2349  8    1369  |12369 12569 2359  189    189    6     |2379  123  5     |12379 1279  4     --------------------------------------------------------1689   12689  128   |2389  123  4     |5     2679  2379  14569  3      1245  |259   7    19    |2469  8     29    4589   24589  7     |6     235  389   |2349  249   1     --------------------------------------------------------3      24568  2458  |1     456  678   |2479  24579 25789 145678 124568 12458 |4578  9    678   |1247  3     2578  14578  1458   9     |34578 345  2     |147   1457  6     chain 1 seq  3r1c9  ~3r1c3  ~3r4c9  3r2c3  3r6c7  ~3r2c6  ~3r6c6  3r1c6 chain 2 seq  3r1c9  ~3r1c6 chain 1 seq  3r2c9  ~3r2c6  ~3r4c9  3r6c7  ~3r6c6  3r1c6 chain 2 seq  3r2c9  ~3r2c3  3r1c3  ~3r1c6 chain 1 seq  3r4c4  ~3r9c4  ~3r4c9  3r9c5  3r6c7  ~3r3c5  ~3r3c7  3r3c4 chain 2 seq  3r4c4  ~3r3c4 chain 1 seq  3r4c5  ~3r3c5  ~3r4c9  3r6c7  ~3r3c7  3r3c4 chain 2 seq  3r4c5  ~3r9c5  3r9c4  ~3r3c4 chain 1 seq  8r6c1  ~8r3c1  ~8r6c6  8r3c2  8r4c4  ~8r9c2  ~8r9c4  8r9c1 chain 2 seq  8r6c1  ~8r9c1 chain 1 seq  8r6c2  ~8r9c2  ~8r6c6  8r4c4  ~8r9c4  8r9c1 chain 2 seq  8r6c2  ~8r3c2  8r3c1  ~8r9c1 chain 1 seq  8r7c6  ~8r7c3  ~8r7c9  8r8c9  ~8r8c3  8r4c3 chain 2 seq  8r7c6  ~8r6c6  8r4c4  ~8r4c3 chain 1 seq  8r8c6  ~8r8c3  ~8r8c9  8r7c9  ~8r7c3  8r4c3 chain 2 seq  8r8c6  ~8r6c6  8r4c4  ~8r4c3 `
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 7260
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

champagne wrote:Here is the second puzzle in the list.

In that puzzle (rated 7.8 by SE), skfr finds 8 eliminations rated 7.7.

It's more of the same, Explainer finds finned (row\col) swordfish and your skfr finds finned franken swordfish.

Code: Select all
`2.....8...7..8......6..5..4.....45...3..7..8...76....13..1.........9..3...9..2..6Explainer: (3)c367\r126 + fin r7c3           skfr: (3)c36b6\r126 + fin r4c9 ==> r12c9<>3Explainer: (3)r369\c457 + fin r6c6           skfr: (3)r39b6\c457 + fin r4c9 ==> r4c45<>3Explainer: (8)r349\c124 + fin r4c3           skfr: (8)r39b5\c124 + fin r6c6 ==> r6c12<>8Explainer: (8)c349\r478 + fin r9c4           skfr: (8)c39b5\r478 + fin r6c6 ==> r78c6<>8`

Since these puzzles are diamonds (7.8/7.8/7.8 or 7.7/7.7/7.7), there is little need to post pencilmarks.
ronk
2012 Supporter

Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

Withdrawn !!!
Last edited by daj95376 on Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
daj95376
2014 Supporter

Posts: 2624
Joined: 15 May 2006

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

daj95376, today is a slow day for me. Relative to your withdrawn post, would the changes in green seem satisfactory to you?

Sudoku Explainer wrote:Nishio Forcing Chains

With this solving technique, we will prove the two following assertions:
If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 must contain the value 3
If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 cannot contain the value 3
...
Chain 1: If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 must contain the value 3 (View 1):
(1) If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R3C7 cannot contain the value 3 (the value can occur only once in the block)
...
(6) If R1C6 does not contain the value 3 and R6C6 does not contain the value 3 (4), then R2C6 must contain the value 3 (only remaining possible position in the column)

Chain 2: If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 cannot contain the value 3 (View 2):
(1) If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R1C3 cannot contain the value 3 (the value can occur only once in the row)
...
(3) If R2C3 contains the value 3, then R2C6 cannot contain the value 3 (the value can occur only once in the row)
ronk
2012 Supporter

Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

ronk wrote:daj95376, today is a slow day for me. Relative to your withdrawn post, would the changes in green seem satisfactory to you?

Sudoku Explainer wrote:Nishio Forcing Chains

With this solving technique, we will prove the two following assertions:
If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 must contain the value 3
If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 cannot contain the value 3
...
Chain 1: If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 must contain the value 3 (View 1):
(1) If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R3C7 cannot contain the value 3 (the value can occur only once in the block)
...
(6) If R1C6 does not contain the value 3 and R6C6 does not contain the value 3 (4), then R2C6 must contain the value 3 (only remaining possible position in the column)

Chain 2: If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R2C6 cannot contain the value 3 (View 2):
(1) If R1C9 contains the value 3, then R1C3 cannot contain the value 3 (the value can occur only once in the row)
...
(3) If R2C3 contains the value 3, then R2C6 cannot contain the value 3 (the value can occur only once in the row)

Yes !!!
daj95376
2014 Supporter

Posts: 2624
Joined: 15 May 2006

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

daj95376 wrote:
ronk wrote:daj95376, today is a slow day for me. Relative to your withdrawn post, would the changes in green seem satisfactory to you?

Yes !!!

I guess that bug is known by all users of SE. It does not change the rating, so we are used to work with it

champagne
champagne
2017 Supporter

Posts: 7260
Joined: 02 August 2007
Location: France Brittany

### Re: Oddities of Sudoku Explainer

ronk wrote:It's more of the same, Explainer finds finned (row\col) swordfish and your skfr finds finned franken swordfish.

After switching to puzzles rated ED=7.9/7.9/7.9, it didn't take long to find a fish equivalent (to an Explainer v1.2.1 Nishio move) that uses a mix of strong inference sets in rows, columns and boxes.

Code: Select all
`..1.2.3...4...5.1.2.....6.5...7...8.3...9.1...7...8...8.2.6...1.3.4...6...4...9..At the start:*7  .  . |  .  . *7 |  . *7 *7 7  .  7 |  .  7  . | *7  .  7 .  .  7 |  .  7  7 |  .  7  .---------+----------+---------- .  .  . |  7  .  . |  .  .  . .  .  . |  .  .  . |  .  7  7 .  7  . |  .  .  . |  .  .  .---------+----------+---------- .  .  . |  .  . *7 | @7 *7  .*7  . #7 |  .  7  7 | *7  . -7*7  .  . |  .  7  7 |  .  7  7mutant jellyfish(7)r17c7b7\c16b39 + fin: r8c3 + endo-fin: r7c7 ==> r8c9<>7`
ronk
2012 Supporter

Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

### Direct Claiming not in Solving Techniques

I have noticed that while Direct Claiming has a SE rating of 1.9, it does not appear in Options-> Solving Techniques.

Since Pointing and Claiming appear as a pair in said menu, is it safe to assume that the Direct Pointing option also toggles whether or not Direct Claiming takes place?
civiliza

Posts: 64
Joined: 25 October 2010

### Re: Direct Claiming not in Solving Techniques

civiliza wrote:Since Pointing and Claiming appear as a pair in said menu, is it safe to assume that the Direct Pointing option also toggles whether or not Direct Claiming takes place?

I doubt it. Nicolaus Juillerat concluded that exclusions due to Direct Claiming do not exist.
ronk
2012 Supporter

Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

Previous