The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[ArkieTech]

Code: Select all

 *-----------*
 |.4.|..6|1..|
 |.62|3..|.58|
 |...|7..|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |..7|6..|...|
 |..3|.97|2.5|
 |1..|..8|..6|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|.2.|9..|
 |.1.|...|...|
 |..9|1..|..3|
 *-----------*

.4...61...623...58...7.......76.......3.972.51....8..6....2.9...1.........91....3



Play/Print this puzzle online

[rjamil]

Code: Select all

 +------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
 | 379    4    58   | (29)  58    6     | 1      2379   279 |
 | 79     6    2    | 3     14    (19)  | 47     5      8   |
 | 3589   359  1    | 7     458   259   | 346    23469  249 |
 +------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
 | 2459   259  7    | 6     13-5  (125) | 348    3489   49  |
 | 6      8    3    | 4     9     7     | 2      1      5   |
 | 1      259  45   | (25)  3-5   8     | 347    3479   6   |
 +------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
 | 3458   357  4568 | 58    2     345   | 9      4678   1   |
 | 23458  1    4568 | 589   67    3459  | 45678  24678  247 |
 | 2458   257  9    | 1     67    45    | 45678  24678  3   |
 +------------------+-------------------+-------------------+

Almost Locked Set move (or WXYZ-Wing): 1259 @ r24c6 r16c4 => -5 @ r46c5; stte

R. Jamil

[SpAce]

Code: Select all

.------------------.--------------------.-------------------.
| 379    4    58   | a[29]  58     6    | 1      2379   279 |
| 79     6    2    |   3    14   b(1)-9 | 47     5      8   |
| 3589   359  1    |   7    458    259  | 346    23469  249 |
:------------------+--------------------+-------------------:
| 2459   259  7    |   6    135  b(21)5 | 348    3489   49  |
| 6      8    3    |   4    9      7    | 2      1      5   |
| 1      259  45   | a[2]5  35     8    | 347    3479   6   |
:------------------+--------------------+-------------------:
| 3458   357  4568 |   58   2      345  | 9      4678   1   |
| 23458  1    4568 |   589  67     3459 | 45678  24678  247 |
| 2458   257  9    |   1    67     45   | 45678  24678  3   |
'------------------'--------------------'-------------------'

M3-Wing (fka H2-Wing):

(92)r16c4 = (21)r42c6 => -9 r2c6

full "wing chain": Show

(9=2)r1c4 - r6c4 = (2-1)r4c6 = (1)r2c6 => -9 r2c6

Or H-Wing (fka H3-Wing):

(1=9)r2c6 - (9=2)r1c4 - r6c4 = (2)r4c6 => -1 r4c6

[SpAce]

Hi rjamil,

Almost Locked Set move (or WXYZ-Wing): 1259 @ r24c6 r16c4 => -5 @ r46c5; stte

Nice move! I don't think it's a standard WXYZ-Wing, though, because it's not an ALS-Z or even ALS-XZ. Rather it's an overlapping ALS-XY:

(5=29)r61c4 - (9=1)r2c6 - (1=25)b5p37 => -5 r46c5

Here's a standard VWXYZ-Wing (for my elimination), though:

Code: Select all

.------------------.-----------------------.-------------------.
| 379    4    58   | a[29]  58      6      | 1      2379   279 |
| 79     6    2    |   3    14      1-9    | 47     5      8   |
| 3589   359  1    |   7    458  ab[29](5) | 346    23469  249 |
:------------------+-----------------------+-------------------:
| 2459   259  7    |   6    135     125    | 348    3489   49  |
| 6      8    3    |   4    9       7      | 2      1      5   |
| 1      259  45   |   25   35      8      | 347    3479   6   |
:------------------+-----------------------+-------------------:
| 3458   357  4568 |   58   2     b(345)   | 9      4678   1   |
| 23458  1    4568 |   589  67    b(3459)  | 45678  24678  247 |
| 2458   257  9    |   1    67    b(45)    | 45678  24678  3   |
'------------------'-----------------------'-------------------'

VWXYZ-Wing (23459)r1c4,r3789c6 => -9 r2c6; stte

As ALS-Z: (92)b2p19 = (5349)r3789c6 => -9 r2c6

As ALS-XZ: (9=2)r1c4 - (2=5349)r3789c6 => -9 r2c6

--

And here's a UVWXYZ-Wing for your eliminations:

Code: Select all

.------------------.--------------------------.-------------------.
| 379    4    58   | ab[2](9)  b(58)     6    | 1      2379   279 |
| 79     6    2    |    3      b(14)   b(19)  | 47     5      8   |
| 3589   359  1    |    7      b(458)    259  | 346    23469  249 |
:------------------+--------------------------+-------------------:
| 2459   259  7    |    6        13-5    125  | 348    3489   49  |
| 6      8    3    |    4        9       7    | 2      1      5   |
| 1      259  45   |  a[25]      3-5     8    | 347    3479   6   |
:------------------+--------------------------+-------------------:
| 3458   357  4568 |    58       2       345  | 9      4678   1   |
| 23458  1    4568 |    589      67      3459 | 45678  24678  247 |
| 2458   257  9    |    1        67      45   | 45678  24678  3   |
'------------------'--------------------------'-------------------'

UVWXYZ-Wing (124589)r6c4,b1p12568 => -5 r46c5

As ALS-Z: (52)r61c4 = (91485)b2p12568 => -5 r46c5

As ALS-XZ: (5=2)r6c4 - (2=91485)b2p12568 => -5 r46c5

[rjamil]

Hi SpAce,

Nice move! I don't think it's a standard WXYZ-Wing, though, because it's not an ALS-Z or even ALS-XZ. Rather it's an overlapping ALS-XY:

(5=29)r61c4 - (9=1)r2c6 - (1=25)b5p37 => -5 r46c5

Well, its true that it's not a standard WXYZ-Wing move, but, four cells having four values in total makes me thinking to call it WXYZ-Wing move now. As I have asked exemplars as WXYZ-Wing and got StrmCkr confirmation here.

Later, changed WXYZ-Wing label to "Almost Locked Set move Type 2a (Boxes-Lines wise)". It was pending for finalizing since then, recently start coding again and checked with today's puzzle successfully. However, still coding is not fully completed/tested/finalized.

Also please note that, it won't detected by Hodoku with standard preference settings.

R. Jamil

[SpAce]

Well, its true that it's not a standard WXYZ-Wing move, but, four cells having four values in total makes me thinking to call it WXYZ-Wing move now.

The four-cell/four-digit pattern is just one requirement but it's not enough. Standard (UVW)XY(Z)-Wings should also be expressible as ALS-XZs, and I don't think that constraint should be removed. Patterns that are called "wings" should be simple and easily recognized as such, imho. If you loosen the definition too much, it loses any meaning.

As I have asked exemplars as WXYZ-Wing and got StrmCkr confirmation here.

Actually I don't see any confirmation by StrmCkr. As he clearly said, he listed them as theorized WXYZ-Wings, so it was just a suggestion. Others, including myself, didn't think they should necessarily be counted as WXYZ-Wings, so they're definitely not widely accepted as such. I'm not sure but I don't think StrmCkr counts them as such either.

How about "WXYZ-Hybrid", which is what I suggested in the same thread?

Also please note that, it won't detected by Hodoku with standard preference settings.

That's right, because it's an overlapping ALS pattern. That's one more reason to not call it WXYZ-Wing. It's clearly more complicated than the standard one.

[rjamil]

Hi SpAce,

If you loosen the definition too much, it loses any meaning.

In other words, my relabeling stands correct. I will continue calling it as generic Almost Locked Set move (without going further any complication).

How about "WXYZ-Hybrid", which is what I suggested in the same thread?

I think WXYZ-Hybrid are discussed here, i.e., fifth cell involvement.

By the way, by adding "Almost Locked Set move (Box-Line wise) patterns, following results (roughly) received:

Code: Select all

puzzles      w/o  add sec
            guess
Ruud's 50K : 9910 265 35
Tarek 6000 : 0        25
PG   26855 : 10537 29 30
17   49158 : 48060 12 10
PG    4279 : 1198  10 10

R. Jamil

[SpAce]

If you loosen the definition too much, it loses any meaning.

In other words, my relabeling stands correct. I will continue calling it as generic Almost Locked Set move (without going further any complication).

As discussed previously, that's ok as an intermediate step if you don't know the specific name. It's better than using a wrong standard name. However, you shouldn't start using that approach as a whole new naming strategy with numbered types (which I hate anyway) and all -- as it seems you have. That makes absolutely no sense. As a generic ALS move it already has a standard name: (overlapping) ALS-XY-Wing.

[rjamil]

Hi SpAce,

As discussed previously, that's ok as an intermediate step if you don't know the specific name. It's better than using a wrong standard name.

Thanks.

However, you shouldn't start using that approach as a whole new naming strategy with numbered types (which I hate anyway) and all -- as it seems you have. That makes absolutely no sense. As a generic ALS move it already has a standard name: (overlapping) ALS-XY-Wing.

Being programmer, I prefer to quote the answer given by SCLT for your similar criticism here.

Please ignore Type X or anything that is used for the programming code block with pattern encyclopedia as reference purpose. (By the way, I am also maintaining my programmed patterns as well as collection of exemplars and use in programming comments as well as hint in step display for debugging purpose, but now not copying the type specifier when solving OTP puzzles.)

Hope everything clarifies.

R. Jamil

[Sudtyro2]

Code: Select all

+-----------------+----------------+------------------+
| 379   4   58    | 29* 58   6     | 1     2379  279  |
| 79    6   2     | 3   14   19*   | 47    5     8    |
| 3589  359 1     | 7   458  259   | 346   23469 249  |
+-----------------+----------------+------------------+
| 2459  259 7     | 6   13-5 15+2* | 348   3489  49   |
| 6     8   3     | 4   9    7     | 2     1     5    |
| 1     259 45    | 25* 3-5  8     | 347   3479  6    |
+-----------------+----------------+------------------+
| 3458  357 4568  | 58  2    345   | 9     4678  1    |
| 23458 1   4568  | 589 67   3459  | 45678 24678 247  |
| 2458  257 9     | 1   67   45    | 45678 24678 3    |
+-----------------+--------------- +------------------+

RJamil's four cells as an Almost Disjoint Subset(*).
DS(1259)r16c4,r24c6 == 2r4c6 - (2=5)r6c4 => -5 r46c5; stte.

SteveC

[SpAce]

Please ignore Type X or anything that is used for the programming code block with pattern encyclopedia as reference purpose. (By the way, I am also maintaining my programmed patterns as well as collection of exemplars and use in programming comments as well as hint in step display for debugging purpose, but now not copying the type specifier when solving OTP puzzles.)

Hope everything clarifies.

Yes, thanks! I understand that you want those those types for programming purposes, but appreciate your decision to not use them for presentation (here). Sounds like a fair deal to me.