The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Cec]

Cec, I guess Pat was wondering what did emm mean with her "The Emperor Has No Clothes" remark.

I'm also puzzled.

Oops! my mistake again in mis-interpreting as to "what emm meant". Like you udosuk I'm puzzled as to the meaning of "The Emperor Has No Clothes" remark.

Cec

[Glyn]

Nobody could see that the Emperor was naked, well at least not admit it if they knew what was good for them. He got demoted to a king in the Frank Loesser's amusing song for the film about Hans Christian Andersen starring Danny Kaye.

Back to Sudoku I find hidden singles are easier to spot than naked singles, which I think is reflected in the tariff they incur in Sudoku Explainer.

[daj95376]

I tend to look for naked stuff before hidden stuff.

one type is more obvious (evident, nude)
the other type is more obscure (hidden, clothed)

the only trouble is, what most of you consider evident, to me is hidden - and vice versa!

Precisely. The Emperor Has No Clothes!

i wish i'd asked at the time,
what exactly does emm mean---

Since emm is not here to qualify her remark, maybe a little speculation on my part.

First, for those who may not know, there's a childhood story called The Emperor's New Clothes (to the best of my recollection). In it, the Emperor is convinced that he will receive a regal new set of clothes that can only be seen by the gifted. In fact, there are no clothes. All of the royal court hear of the special properties of the Emperor's new clothes and pretend to see them because they don't want to be left out as priviliged. It takes a peasant boy to point out that the Emperor is running around nude.

Now, my guess is that Pat's reference to nude/hidden, and who sees what from their perspective, caused emm to think of this childhood story.

[Pat]

my own interpretation --
Pat seems to be announcing some great discovery
which had escaped everyone's notice

emm is pointing out that there's nothing new here,
that the subject had been discussed in the past

Cec, sorry about my abmiguous phrasing

anyway emm's name isn't Emily
from which i infer she's probably not your grand-daughter

I find hidden singles are easier to spot than naked singles

yes, much easier

but they become hidden if we fill in the "pencilmarks"

( which in turn make the "naked singles" very obvious )

[Cec]

"....Cec, sorry about my abmiguous phrasing

anyway emm's name isn't Emily
from which i infer she's probably not your grand-daughter

Not a problem Pat. In hindsight I should have realized you would have remembered emm and your question merely sought an explanation of her reference to "The Emperor Has No Clothes ". Like the rest of my posts in this thread I haven't fared too well at all.

Cec

[udosuk]

Cec, no need for worries as we (hopefully) all know you're a nice chap and would love to continue hearing from you. It's a blessing to be able to keep exercising one's brain playing Sudoku and communicating with others (over the Internet or other ways).

BTW hopefully you've enjoyed tonight's Cats-Hawks clash. Also last week the Shark came so close for another Claret Jug. And Cadel Evans has a decent chance to become our first Tour De France champion. And the Olympics is coming up soon. It's all happening in the sports world now.

[Glyn]

The Emperor's New Clothes a thread about having no 'threads'.
Now that would be a paradox.

[Cec]

"Cec, no need for worries as we (hopefully) all know you're a nice chap and would love to continue hearing from you. It's a blessing to be able to keep exercising one's brain playing Sudoku and communicating with others (over the Internet or other ways)...."

Thanks udosuk. I try hard to be a nice chap but nobody seems to believe me Of course I'll keep posting to the forum and like you say, there's lots of sporting events around and can't wait for the Olympics to begin and particularly to watch my favourite event - the pole vault.

A funny side - to me anyway - emerged today relative to this thread which I'll share with you but remember it's a secret! When doing today's Herald-Sun sudoku I easily spotted a hidden single in one of the boxes. Don't forget it's a secret otherwise Pat will think he's won me over

Cec

[Glyn]

I found a hidden single in the Herald Sun today

[Pat]

I try hard to be a nice chap
but nobody seems to believe me

as for me,
i don't even try to be nice

my main occupation here has been to criticize everyone

nitpicking -- my specialty

When doing today's Herald-Sun sudoku,
I easily spotted a hidden single in one of the boxes

easily?
i bet you didn't have the puzzle crowded with "pencilmarks"---

I have never entered a single pencilmark into any grid I've been working on

i must confess that on some occasions i did surrender and write down the lists of possibilities in the cells

i say "surrender" because it always felt like a failure

[Cec]

"When doing today's Herald-Sun sudoku,
I easily spotted a hidden single in one of the boxes"

easily?
i bet you didn't have the puzzle crowded with "pencilmarks"---

Sorry Pat but you would have lost this bet. Except for very easy puzzles, I always use a Pencilmark grid when attempting to solve puzzles.

I might add that since this thread started I've been "seeing" hidden singles that I didn't "see" before - probably because I was looking for other techniques such as "Locked Candidates", naked subsets, etc. As an example, the following puzzle appeared in Sunday's Melbourne "Herald-Sun" which contains a lot of hidden singles as solving progresses using basic techniques

Code: Select all

 *-----------*
 |...|...|.2.|
 |4.5|..3|..7|
 |8.2|.7.|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |..3|8.4|.5.|
 |..4|...|9..|
 |.5.|9.1|6..|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|.1.|8.6|
 |7..|3..|2.4|
 |.4.|...|...|
 *-----------*

 
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 1369    13679   1679    | 1456    45689   5689    | 1345    2       13589   |
 | 4       169     5       | 126     2689    3       | 1       1689    7       |
 | 8       1369    2       | 1456    7       569     | 1345    13469   1359    |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 1269    12679   3       | 8       26      4       | 17      5       12      |
 | 126     12678   4       | 2567    2356    2567    | 9       1378    1238    |
 | 2       5       78      | 9       23      1       | 6       3478    238     |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 2359    239     9       | 2457    1       2579    | 8       379     6       |
 | 7       1689    1689    | 3       5689    5689    | 2       19      4       |
 | 123569  4       1689    | 2567    25689   256789  | 1357    1379    1359    |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


Cec

[Pat]

the following puzzle appeared in Sunday's Melbourne "Herald-Sun"
which contains a lot of hidden singles as solving progresses using basic techniques

[ 26 clues ]

Code: Select all

 . . . | . . . | . 2 .
 4 . 5 | . . 3 | . . 7
 8 . 2 | . 7 . | . . .
-------+-------+------
 . . 3 | 8 . 4 | . 5 .
 . . 4 | . . . | 9 . .
 . 5 . | 9 . 1 | 6 . .
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . 1 . | 8 . 6
 7 . . | 3 . . | 2 . 4
 . 4 . | . . . | . . .



see more puzzles of this type in the "ulterior" Topic -- i hope you enjoy them (cannot be solved by "singles")

personally i'm amazed that you can see any "hidden singles" when the unknown cells are crowded with lists of possibilities

[Cec]

".....which contains a lot of hidden singles as solving progresses using basic techniques..."

"...personally i'm amazed that you can see any "hidden singles" when the unknown cells are crowded with lists of possibilities

Sorry Pat for the misunderstanding though I thought I'd made myself clear by saying "as solving progresses". Yes, it would have been clearer if I had said "After placing a number of naked singles" the puzzle reaches this stage....

Code: Select all

 *-----------*
 |...|...|.2.|
 |4.5|..3|1.7|
 |8.2|.7.|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |..3|8.4|75.|
 |..4|...|9..|
 |257|931|648|
 |---+---+---|
 |..9|.1.|8.6|
 |7..|3..|2.4|
 |.4.|...|...|
 *-----------*
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 1369    13679   16      | 1456    45689   5689    | 345     2       359     |
 | 4       69      5       | 26      2689    3       | 1       689     7       |
 | 8       1369    2       | 1456    7       569     | 345     369     359     |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 169     169     3       | 8       26      4       | 7       5       12      |
 | 16      168     4       | 2567    256     2567    | 9       13      123     |
 | 2       5       7       | 9       3       1       | 6       4       8       |
 |-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 35      23      9       | 2457    1       257     | 8       37      6       |
 | 7       168     168     | 3       5689    5689    | 2       19      4       |
 | 1356    4       168     | 2567    25689   256789  | 35      1379    1359    |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From this pencilmark grid hidden singles appear in the following cells....

r1c2 digit 7
r2c8 8
r3c8 6
r5c2 8
r7c2 2
r7c4 4
r1c5 4
r1c6 8
r3c7 4
r3c2 3
r3c4 1

As I said before I merely added this puzzle as an example of a puzzle (eventually) disclosing a lot of hidden singles which I confess to ignoring these before and preferring to look for other techniques which I now acknowledge as harder to spot.

Cec