Muggy 5

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Muggy 5

Postby eleven » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:36 pm

Code: Select all
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . 2 . | 1 7 . | . . 9 |
 | . 7 . | . . 2 | . 6 . |
 | 9 . . | . . . | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . 2 | 4 5 . | . . 8 |
 | . 1 . | 9 . . | . 7 . |
 | 4 . . | . . . | 9 . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . 1 | . . 4 |
 | . 3 . | . . . | 7 2 . |
 | 6 . . | . . . | 1 9 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
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Re: Muggy 5

Postby Leren » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:10 am

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
|*358     2       356      | 1       7      c3468     |*358    *38+4b   9        |
|*358     7       4        | 38      9       2        |*358     6       1        |
| 9       68      1        | 3568    368     34568    | 2       348     7        |
|--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
| 7       9       2        | 4       5      c36       | 36      1       8        |
| 358     1       356      | 9       2368   c368      | 4       7       236      |
| 4       68      36       | 2368    1       7        | 9       5       236      |
|--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
| 2       5       9        | 7       36      1        |*6-38af *38      4        |
| 1       3       8        |d56      4       9        | 7       2      e56       |
| 6       4       7        | 2358    238    c358      | 1       9       35       |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Note the 7 cell DP (358+46) in the cells marked * r1c178, r2c17, r7c78.

Discontinuous Nice loop: - 6 r7c7 = DP = 4 r1c8 - (4=3568) r1459c6 - (5=6) r8c4 - r8c9 = 6 r7c7 => - 38 r7c7; stte

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Re: Muggy 5

Postby JC Van Hay » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:59 pm

Only "basics" are needed to solve the puzzle ... :?

20 Singles; LC(8r7c78)-8r7c25; 2 Singles
LC(5r89c9)-5r56c9=5r6c8; LC(5r3c46)-5r1c6r2c4
Code: Select all
+------------------+-----------------------+------------------+
| 358  2     35(6) | 1       7      348(6) | 358    348  9    |
| 358  7     4     | 38      9      2      | 358    6    1    |
| 9    8(6)  1     | 358(6)  368    3458-6 | 2      348  7    |
+------------------+-----------------------+------------------+
| 7    9     2     | 4       5      3(6)   | 3(6)   1    8    |
| 358  1     356   | 9       238-6  368    | 4      7    236  |
| 4    8(6)  3-6   | 238(6)  1      7      | 9      5    23-6 |
+------------------+-----------------------+------------------+
| 2    5     9     | 7       3(6)   1      | 38(6)  38   4    |
| 1    3     8     | 5(6)    4      9      | 7      2    56   |
| 6    4     7     | 2358    238    358    | 1      9    35   |
+------------------+-----------------------+------------------+
Starfish(6C24R741) : XWing(r36c24)=r8c4-Skyscraper(r7c5=r7c7-r4c7=r4c6)-r1c6=r1c3-r3c2=r6c2 :=> -6r5c5,r6c6,r6c39; 4 Singles
LC(3r45c6)-3r139c6
Code: Select all
+---------------+--------------------+--------------+
| 358  2     56 | 1       7     468  | 358  348  9  |
| 358  7     4  | 3(8)    9     2    | 358  6    1  |
| 9    6(8)  1  | 356(8)  36-8  45-8 | 2    348  7  |
+---------------+--------------------+--------------+
| 7    9     2  | 4       5     36   | 36   1    8  |
| 58   1     56 | 9       2     368  | 4    7    36 |
| 4    6(8)  3  | 6(8)    1     7    | 9    5    2  |
+---------------+--------------------+--------------+
| 2    5     9  | 7       36    1    | 368  38   4  |
| 1    3     8  | 56      4     9    | 7    2    56 |
| 6    4     7  | 2       38    58   | 1    9    35 |
+---------------+--------------------+--------------+
Finned XWing(8C24) : r3c2=r6c2-r6c4=r23c4 :=> -8r3c56; ste
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Re: Muggy 5

Postby Luke » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:25 am

eleven, thank you squared for taking the time to construct this "Muggy" series of puzzles. Now, I'll always think of this pattern as The Burst Into Tears MUG.

BITMUG? MUG11?? :lol:

Myth Jellies said, "Any derived workable pattern (from a MUG) must also be a MUG." I think this series does a fantastic job of demonstrating that, and it's an idea that has been overlooked and underused.

I show the following just as an example of the concept, because it does little to advance this particular puzzle (Muggy 5):

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 |*358    2     *35+6   | 1      7      3468   |*358    348    9      |
 |*358    7      4      | 38     9      2      |*358    6      1      |
 | 9      68     1      | 3568   368    34568  | 2      348    7      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 7      9      2      | 4      5      36     | 36     1      8      |
 |*358    1     *35+6   | 9      2368   368    | 4      7      236    |
 | 4      68     3-6    | 2368   1      7      | 9      5      236    |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2      5      9      | 7      36     1      | 368    38     4      |
 | 1      3      8      | 56     4      9      | 7      2      56     |
 | 6      4      7      | 2358   238    358    | 1      9      35     |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

This (358) pattern seems so odd and unbalanced, but it remains a reduction of the archetype and therefore equally as deadly. There is no "reducing the reduction" without confronting a BUG-Lite, UR or no solution.

I'm lovin it...
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Re: Muggy 5

Postby ronk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:59 pm

Luke wrote:
Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 |*358    2     *35+6   | 1      7      3468   |*358    348    9      |
 |*358    7      4      | 38     9      2      |*358    6      1      |
 | 9      68     1      | 3568   368    34568  | 2      348    7      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 7      9      2      | 4      5      36     | 36     1      8      |
 |*358    1     *35+6   | 9      2368   368    | 4      7      236    |
 | 4      68     3-6    | 2368   1      7      | 9      5      236    |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2      5      9      | 7      36     1      | 368    38     4      |
 | 1      3      8      | 56     4      9      | 7      2      56     |
 | 6      4      7      | 2358   238    358    | 1      9      35     |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

This (358) pattern seems so odd and unbalanced, but it remains a reduction of the archetype and therefore equally as deadly. There is no "reducing the reduction" without confronting a BUG-Lite, UR or no solution.

I think this is carrying "unbalanced" a bit too far; 8r5c1 should be considered an extra candidate IMO. Then r5 and b4 each have 2 appearances of candidates <35> in the MUG pattern.

r5c1=8 trivially leads to r1c3=6 and r6c2=6. It's like one need not care if 8r5c1 is true or false.
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Re: Muggy 5

Postby Luke » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:16 am

Yeah, I know it's trivial , just playing around with the concept and causin' trouble. :twisted:

Happy New Year to all my 9x9 people. Enjoy yourselves and watch out for guys like me on the road!
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Re: Muggy 5

Postby David P Bird » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:35 am

Eleven, as you asked for alternative solutions, this long simple chain to eliminate (3)r3c5 also eliminates (3)r3c46 en route:
Code: Select all
 *----------------------*----------------------*----------------------*
 | 358    2      356    | 1      7      3468   | 358    348    9      |
 | 358    7      4      | 38     9      2      | 358    6      1      |
 | 9      68     1      | 3568   368    34568  | 2      348    7      |
 *----------------------*----------------------*----------------------*
 | 7      9      2      | 4      5      36     | 36     1      8      |
 | 358    1      356    | 9      2368   368    | 4      7      236    |
 | 4      68     36     | 2368   1      7      | 9      5      236    |
 *----------------------*----------------------*----------------------*
 | 2      5      9      | 7      36     1      | 368    38     4      |
 | 1      3      8      | 56     4      9      | 7      2      56     |
 | 6      4      7      | 2358   238    358    | 1      9      35     |
 *----------------------*----------------------*----------------------*

(3=6)r7c5 - (6=5)r8c4 - (5)r3c4 = (5-4)r3c6 = (4-6)r1c6 = (6)r1c3 - (6=8)r3c2 - (8)r6c2 = (8)r6c4 - (8=3)r2c4
=> r3c5 <> 3, r3c4 <> 3, r3c6 <> 3 stte

For these larger DPs, can you still spot them without using pencil marks?
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Re: Muggy 5

Postby eleven » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:09 pm

Nice paused chain.

David P Bird wrote:For these larger DPs, can you still spot them without using pencil marks?

I never tried it yet. Without pencilmarks i concentrate on the DP's external candidates. But i have not seen a big MUG yet, which did not have a lot of them, so this does not make much sense.
So i both would have to practice to find possible MUGs and then count the extra candidates. This sounds rather cumbersome compared to look at a pencilmark grid.
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