missing deduction for xyt chains

Advanced methods and approaches for solving Sudoku puzzles

Postby DonM » Mon May 04, 2009 9:02 pm

PIsaacson wrote:But I disagree with Don that there was absolutely no direction for the manual solver. As compared to what? Reading the original Epstein paper "Nonrepetitive Paths and Cycles in Graphs with Application to Sudoku" to understand b/b plots for construction of NLs or AICs? We're talking about fairly advanced techniques here regardless of whether you want to pursue nrczt, nice-loops or AICs.
Paul


Paul, just for the purposes of clarifying what the book is & what it is not, I think the question you raised needs a response. If the book were, say, $15-20, then I might say to the manual solver who wants to try everything, go for it. But the 'compared to what' as far as the manual solver is concerned are the various tutorials at various sites and material on the 2 main forums over that last 3-4 years that show illustrated examples (both text & graphic based) of manually-derived solutions using advanced techniques. I didn't read Epstein's paper to become familiar with NLs & AICs and other advanced methods, I got the information that is freely available from the above sources.

In The Hidden Logic of Sudoku, the reader interested in finding something of use for the manual solver has to take it on trust that the methods are useful for that purpose because there is no evidence that they are insofar that everything is solved with a computer solver. However, if there is something there for the manual solver, he/she will be best served by a mind strong on mathematics in general & logic theory in particular. Just sayin...:)
DonM
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Postby PIsaacson » Mon May 04, 2009 9:59 pm

DonM wrote:... However, if there is something there for the manual solver, he/she will be best served by a mind strong on mathematics in general & logic theory in particular. Just sayin...:)

Don,

I think your last statement applies in general for (at least what I consider) all advanced sudoku techniques. One might argue that someone trained or skilled in pattern recognition could learn advanced techniques without needing to know the underlying logic or resolution rules as Denis describes them. But... taking the time to understand the logic sure makes it a whole lot easier.

As for the need to buy Denis's book... I wrote my hxyzt and nrczt engines based entirely on various postings here, on the Sudoku Programmer's forum, some old postings on Eureka, and multiple nrczt examples on the French forum. I bought the book because I wanted the examples from the Royle17 collection to compare results produced by Denis's SudoRules and for trying my hand at manually duplicating some simple chains. If I could solve as well as I code, "I coulda been a contender..." Thanks for bringing Brando's famous line to my attention. It's become my mantra...

Cheers,
Paul
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Postby DonM » Mon May 04, 2009 10:33 pm

PIsaacson wrote:But... taking the time to understand the logic sure makes it a whole lot easier. If I could solve as well as I code, "I coulda been a contender..." Thanks for bringing Brando's famous line to my attention. It's become my mantra...

Cheers,
Paul


From what I've seen, when it comes to combining the logic with programming skills that results in output that is extremely useful to all of us, you're in a rarified universe of a very few with those skills around here, present and past, & very much a 'contenda'.:)
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