May 29, 2016

Post puzzles for others to solve here.

May 29, 2016

Postby ArkieTech » Sat May 28, 2016 10:51 pm

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |...|.6.|.3.|
 |35.|1..|8..|
 |...|3.8|..9|
 |---+---+---|
 |24.|..3|.8.|
 |...|.9.|...|
 |.7.|8..|.24|
 |---+---+---|
 |1..|5.6|...|
 |..6|..4|.57|
 |.9.|.3.|...|
 *-----------*


Play/Print this puzzle online
dan
User avatar
ArkieTech
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: NW Arkansas USA

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Sun May 29, 2016 12:19 am

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 479    18     12489  | 27     6      579    | 1257   3      125    |
 | 3      5      29     | 1     c24     9-7    | 8     c467    26     |
 | 67     16     12     | 3      245    8      | 1257   147    9      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2      4      159    | 6      7      3      | 159    8      15     |
 | 56     168    1358   | 4      9      2      | 13567  167    1356   |
 | 69     7      39     | 8      15     15     | 369    2      4      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 1      23     7      | 5      8      6      | 4      9      23     |
 | 8      23     6      | 9     b12     4      | 123    5      7      |
 | 45     9      45     | 27     3     a17     | 126   b16     8      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


(7=1)r9c6 - (1=[2r8c5]&[6r9c8]) - (2|6=47)r2c58 => -7 r5c6 ; stte

Should be (7=1)r9c6 - (1=[2r8c5]&[6r9c8]) - (2|6=47)r2c58 => -7 r2c6. Thanks, Bat.
Last edited by SteveG48 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steve
User avatar
SteveG48
2019 Supporter
 
Posts: 4202
Joined: 08 November 2013
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby pjb » Sun May 29, 2016 12:29 am

Code: Select all
 479     18      12489  | 27     6      579    | 1257   3      125   
 3       5       29     | 1      24     79     | 8      467    26     
 67      16      12     | 3      245    8      | 1257   147    9     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 2       4       159    | 6      7      3      | 159    8      15     
 56      168     1358   | 4      9      2      | 13567  167    1356   
 69      7       39     | 8      15     15     | 369    2      4     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 1       23      7      | 5      8      6      | 4      9      23     
 8       23      6      | 9      12     4      | 123    5      7     
 45      9       45     | 27     3      17     | 16-2   16     8     

(2)r1c7 - r9c7
(2)r1c9 - r1c4 = r9c4 - r9c7
(2-6)r2c9 = r2c8 - r9c8 = (6-2)r9c7 - r9c7
(2)r3c7 - r9c7 => -2 r9c7; stte

Phil
pjb
2014 Supporter
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: 11 September 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby Leren » Sun May 29, 2016 1:12 am

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 479    18     12489   |b7-2fD  6      579     | 1257   3     a125     |
| 3      5      29      | 1      24     79      | 8      467    26a     |
| 67     16     12      | 3      245    8       | 1257   147    9       |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 2      4      159     | 6      7      3       | 159    8      15      |
| 56     168    1358    | 4      9      2       | 13567c 167    1356b   |
| 69     7      39      | 8      15     15      | 369c   2      4       |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 1      23     7       | 5      8      6       | 4      9      23A     |
| 8      23     6       | 9      12     4       | 123    5      7       |
| 45     9      45      | 27eC   3      17      | 126dB  16     8       |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*

Kraken Column 9 Digit 2:

2 r1c9                                             - 2 r1c4;

2 r2c9 - 6 r2c9 = r5c9 - r56c7 = (6-2) r9c7 = r9c4 - 2 r1c4;

2 r7c9 - r9c7 = r9c4                               - 2 r1c4; => - 2 r1c4; stte

Leren
Leren
 
Posts: 5019
Joined: 03 June 2012

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sun May 29, 2016 1:21 pm

Code: Select all
.-------------------.------------------.--------------------.
| g479  18    12489 | a27   6     57-9 |  1257    3    125  |
|  3    5     2-9   |  1   a24   a79   |  8      b467  26   |
|  67   16    12    |  3    245   8    |  1257    147  9    |
:-------------------+------------------+--------------------:
|  2    4     159   |  6    7     3    |  159     8    15   |
|  56   168   1358  |  4    9     2    |  13567   167  1356 |
| f69   7    e39    |  8    15    15   | e369     2    4    |
:-------------------+------------------+--------------------:
|  1    23    7     |  5    8     6    |  4       9    23   |
|  8    23    6     |  9    12    4    |  123     5    7    |
|  45   9     45    |  27   3     17   | d126    c16   8    |
'-------------------'------------------'--------------------'
(9=47)r1c4,r2c56 - (47=6)r2c8 - r9c8 = r9c7 - (6=9)r6c37 - r6c1 = (9)r1c1 => -9 r1c6,r2c3; stte
8-)
(9=47)r1c4,r2c56 - (4|7=6)r2c8 - r9c8 = r9c7 - (6=9)r6c37 - r6c1 = (9)r1c1 => -9 r1c6,r2c3; stte
Edit, inserted an OR symbol. ;)
Last edited by bat999 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
8-)
bat999
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 677
Joined: 15 September 2014
Location: UK

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sun May 29, 2016 6:59 pm

SteveG48 wrote:
Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 479    18     12489  | 27     6      579    | 1257   3      125    |
 | 3      5      29     | 1     c24     9-7    | 8     c467    26     |
 | 67     16     12     | 3      245    8      | 1257   147    9      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2      4      159    | 6      7      3      | 159    8      15     |
 | 56     168    1358   | 4      9      2      | 13567  167    1356   |
 | 69     7      39     | 8      15     15     | 369    2      4      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 1      23     7      | 5      8      6      | 4      9      23     |
 | 8      23     6      | 9     b12     4      | 123    5      7      |
 | 45     9      45     | 27     3     a17     | 126   b16     8      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


(7=1)r9c6 - (1=[2r8c5]&[6r9c8]) - (2|6=47)r2c58 => -7 r5c6 ; stte
This is probably a typo.

Can you show where is the documentation for those AND/OR symbols?

Eureka notation doesn't seem to include them ---> http://sudopedia.enjoysudoku.com/Eureka.html
But maybe that's because your "chain" is actually a "network" (imho).
Last edited by bat999 on Sun May 29, 2016 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
8-)
bat999
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 677
Joined: 15 September 2014
Location: UK

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sun May 29, 2016 9:34 pm

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
| 479    18     12489 | 27     6      579   | 1257   3      125   |
| 3      5      29    | 1     #24     9-7   | 8     #467    26    |
| 67     16     12    | 3      245    8     | 1257   147    9     |
|---------------------+---------------------+---------------------|
| 2      4      159   | 6      7      3     | 159    8      15    |
| 56     168    1358  | 4      9      2     | 13567  167    1356  |
| 69     7      39    | 8      15     15    | 369    2      4     |
|---------------------+---------------------+---------------------|
| 1      23     7     | 5      8      6     | 4      9      23    |
| 8      23     6     | 9     *12     4     | 123    5      7     |
| 45     9      45    | 27     3     *17    | 126   *16     8     |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Bat,
I see your concerns, but I like what Steve does (first time I've seen it done)...
The CoALS Rule(*) says (71=26)r8c5,r9c68, but if 2r8c5 and 6r9c8 are both true, then 2r2c5(#) and 6r2c8(#) are both false, so (2|6=47)r2c58 (AALS)=> -7r2c6. Nice!

Edit to fix typo and to add the full chain (equivalent to SteveG48's): (71=26)r8c5,r9c68 - (2|6=47)r2c58 => -7r2c6

SteveC
Last edited by Sudtyro2 on Mon May 30, 2016 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sudtyro2
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 15 April 2013

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:01 pm

Sudtyro2 wrote:
Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
| 479    18     12489 | 27     6      579   | 1257   3      125   |
| 3      5      29    | 1     #24     9-7   | 8     #467    26    |
| 67     16     12    | 3      245    8     | 1257   147    9     |
|---------------------+---------------------+---------------------|
| 2      4      159   | 6      7      3     | 159    8      15    |
| 56     168    1358  | 4      9      2     | 13567  167    1356  |
| 69     7      39    | 8      15     15    | 369    2      4     |
|---------------------+---------------------+---------------------|
| 1      23     7     | 5      8      6     | 4      9      23    |
| 8      23     6     | 9     *12     4     | 123    5      7     |
| 45     9      45    | 27     3     *17    | 126   *16     8     |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Bat,
I see your concerns, but I like what Steve does (first time I've seen it done)...
The CoALS Rule(*) says (71=26)r8c5,r9c68, but if 2r8c5 and 6r9c8 are both true, then 2r2c5(#) and 6r2c8(#) are both false, so (2|6=47)r2c58 (AALS)=> -7r5c6. Nice!

SteveC
This is probably a typo too.
8-)
bat999
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 677
Joined: 15 September 2014
Location: UK

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:06 pm

Yes, let's call it Typo-II! :lol:

SteveC
Sudtyro2
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 15 April 2013

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:09 pm

-7r5c6. Nice

Sudtyro2 wrote:Yes...
8-)
bat999
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 677
Joined: 15 September 2014
Location: UK

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sun May 29, 2016 10:28 pm

Bat,
I hope this fixes it for you...
It's -7r2c6; stte

SteveC
Sudtyro2
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 15 April 2013

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby bat999 » Tue May 31, 2016 11:10 am

bat999 wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:
(7=1)r9c6 - (1=[2r8c5]&[6r9c8]) - (2|6=47)r2c58 => -7 r5c6 ; stte
This is probably a typo.

Can you show where is the documentation for those AND/OR symbols?

Bump
8-)
bat999
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 677
Joined: 15 September 2014
Location: UK

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Tue May 31, 2016 1:28 pm

Hi Bat,
I'm no expert, but I've found the following to be extremely helpful when first learning about ANDs and ORs and their uses in premises and in linking. The convention I use in AICs is simply that AND'd digit groups don't generally get a special symbol, but OR'd digit groups use the "|" symbol.

Myth Jellies describes the meaning of premises and their proper use in an AALS in the following link:
http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/alternating-inference-chains-t3865.html#p26157

Also shown in hidden text below is an excerpt from an old UK forum discussion between DPB and Myth about that same AALS. Myth explains very carefully about the symbol use and development of the AIC shown in that link. Hope this helps in some way.

Note: In text below, r123 refers to r456 in link above. Myth only used the 2nd chute in his example.
Hidden Text: Show
Posted by:
Myth Jellies
29-Nov-2007
04:01 am
When you use an AALS, you are essentially using a 3-way entity (a trinary cell is the simplest AALS) so you need to connect it to three weak links. If you can combine two of them into a "doubly-linked" ALS weak connection then you can keep things looking linear. The following shows how these A*LS things progress. Note that the & operator always has higher precedence than the | operator in the following (i.e. a|b&c should be thought of as a|(b&c) ).

LS - 5 digits in 5 cells - no ORs; 4 ANDs - a&b&c&d&e is true
ALS - 5 digits in 4 cells - 1 OR; 3 ANDs - a|b&c&d&e is true
AALS - 5 digits in 3 cells - 2 ORs; 2 ANDs - a|b|c&d&e is true
AAALS - 5 digits in 2 cells - 3 ORs; 1 AND - a|b|c|d&e is true
AAAALS - 5 digits in 1 cell - 4 ORs; no AND - a|b|c|d|e is true

In all cases you are free to rearrange the digits and swap places of ANDs with ORs. Thus, for an AALS, b&c|a&d|e is also always true.

In my AALS, we have five digits (23468) in three cells. It doesn't look likely that any useful weak-then-strong linkages will come from either the 4's or the 8's in that AALS. Thus it is imperative that the 2, 3, and 6 are separated by ORs for this AALS to go anywhere. The 4's and 8's are just along for the ride and can be ANDed in any way that you choose; they just do not matter except to give you a complete picture of what is going on.

From a Kraken perspective we have...

(4&8&6)AALS - (6)r1c45 = (6)r1c2
||
(3)AALS - (3=2&6)r3c78
||
(2)AALS - (2=3&6)r3c78

or

(6)AALS - (6)r1c45 = (6)r1c2
||
(8&3)AALS - (3=2&6)r3c78
||
(4&2)AALS - (2=3&6)r3c78

or any other combination that you prefer. However you choose to AND in the 8 and the 4, the deduction can converge back to linearity by using the 2&3-double-link from the ALS...

(6)r1c2 = (6)r1c45 - (6=(8&3)|(4&2))AALS - (2&3=6)r3c78

but I think my original way looks nicer

(6)r1c2 = (6)r1c45 - (6&4&8=3|2)AALS - (2&3=6)r3c78

SteveC
Sudtyro2
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 15 April 2013

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby bat999 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:48 pm

Sudtyro2 wrote:... expert...


K.I.S.S.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
Surely only this is necessary...
Code: Select all
.-----------------.----------------.-------------------.
| 479  18   12489 | 27   6     579 | 1257    3    125  |
| 3    5    29    | 1   b24    9-7 | 8      b467  26   |
| 67   16   12    | 3    245   8   | 1257    147  9    |
:-----------------+----------------+-------------------:
| 2    4    159   | 6    7     3   | 159     8    15   |
| 56   168  1358  | 4    9     2   | 13567   167  1356 |
| 69   7    39    | 8    15    15  | 369     2    4    |
:-----------------+----------------+-------------------:
| 1    23   7     | 5    8     6   | 4       9    23   |
| 8    23   6     | 9   a12    4   | 123     5    7    |
| 45   9    45    | 27   3    a17  | 126    a16   8    |
'-----------------'----------------'-------------------'
(7=26)r8c5,r9c68 - (26=7)r2c58 => -7 r2c6; stte
8-)

(7=26)r8c5,r9c68 - (26=7)r2c58
Not 7 in r8c5,r9c68 forces 26 in r8c5,r9c68.

(7=26)r8c5,r9c68 - (26=7)r2c58
The 26 in r8c5,r9c68 eliminate the 26 in r2c58 and forces 7 in r2c58.
8-)
bat999
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 677
Joined: 15 September 2014
Location: UK

Re: May 29, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:37 am

bat999 wrote:
Surely only this is necessary...
Code: Select all
.-----------------.----------------.-------------------.
| 479  18   12489 | 27   6     579 | 1257    3    125  |
| 3    5    29    | 1   b24    9-7 | 8      b467  26   |
| 67   16   12    | 3    245   8   | 1257    147  9    |
:-----------------+----------------+-------------------:
| 2    4    159   | 6    7     3   | 159     8    15   |
| 56   168  1358  | 4    9     2   | 13567   167  1356 |
| 69   7    39    | 8    15    15  | 369     2    4    |
:-----------------+----------------+-------------------:
| 1    23   7     | 5    8     6   | 4       9    23   |
| 8    23   6     | 9   a12    4   | 123     5    7    |
| 45   9    45    | 27   3    a17  | 126    a16   8    |
'-----------------'----------------'-------------------'

(7=26)r8c5,r9c68 - (26=7)r2c58 => -7 r2c6

Bat,
Aside from any clarifying linking symbols, your second node, (26=7)r2c58, requires that 26r2c58 both be false to make the AIC work. However, that would logically require the node to read (2|6=7)r2c58. IOW, (2&6)r2c58 is false even if only one of the two digits is false. Maddening, huh?

SteveC
Sudtyro2
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 15 April 2013

Next

Return to Puzzles