June 5, 2016

Post puzzles for others to solve here.

Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Leren » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:50 pm

Marty R wrote : Leren, is this a valid AIC Type 2?

Hi Marty, actually there is an XWing in the same cells c16 r 27 => - 1 r6c245, r7c5.

However, as you've included the 5's in your pattern, It's an AIC Type 1 loop, with the same eliminations.

The type number may not be a universal convention, but it's what Hodoku uses, so who am I to argue. You can find their definitions here.

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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Leren » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:07 pm

SteveG48 wrote:Leren, I don't think Steve was asking why basic fish aren't allowed as basic moves. He was asking why they would be excluded as non-basic one-step solutions to the puzzle after the basic moves are completed. I think they would be allowed- but in the time I've been here I don't think Dan has ever posted a puzzle that could be reduced to singles by a basic fish.

Of course, some folks here consider a finned frankin squirmbag to be a basic fish. :D

Ah Haaah ! I've caught you out on a Freudian slip Steve. I think you meant to say that you've never seen a puzzle that has been reduced to singles and/or basics by a basic fish. stte and lclste finishes have equal merit, right. Yeah, right !

More seriously I think it's time to ask Dan what he thinks. Dan, what non-basic moves would you consider to be too easy to be single non-basic step solutions to the dailies ?

My provisional list is basic X Wings, Swordfish and Jellyfish plus, Skyscrapers, Kites, Empty Rectangles and XY Wings.

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Last edited by Leren on Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:19 pm

Leren wrote:Ah Haaah ! I've caught you out on a Freudian slip Steve. I think you meant to say that you've never seen a puzzle that has been reduced to singles and or basics by a basic fish. stte and lclste finishes have equal merit, right. Yeah, right !


Indeed. I agree with your statement that no one really believes the equal merit part. In fact, I don't usually bother with lclste solutions any more. If I can't find a singles solution I usually don't post.

More seriously I think it's time to ask Dan what he thinks.


Why? What he thinks is reflected in the puzzles that he posts. Besides, it's fun to catch a really simple one, like an XY-wing, on rare occasions. It's even more fun when we all miss a really simple one and post complex solutions when an XY-wing is staring us in the face. :D
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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Leren » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:33 pm

Hi Steve. For the daily puzzle for 7th April 2014, you solved the puzzle with an Empty Rectangle and asked Dan if his puzzle was a mistake. I thought you were asking him if the puzzle was too easy. I agreed with you but didn't say anything (I try not to be too argumentative !)

I solved the puzzle with a Grouped Skyscraper (2 Strong links). It's also a finned X Wing but considering that it has only 2 Strong links as a Skyscraper I think it's on the borderline of the list for exclusion.

You can find the discussion here.

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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Marty R. » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:53 pm

Leren wrote:
Marty R wrote : Leren, is this a valid AIC Type 2?

Hi Marty, actually there is an XWing in the same cells c16 r 27 => - 1 r6c245, r7c5.

However, as you've included the 5's in your pattern, It's an AIC Type 1 loop, with the same eliminations.

The type number may not be a universal convention, but it's what Hodoku uses, so who am I to argue. You can find their definitions here.

Leren


Thanks. I have my doubts as to whether I'll ever understand this stuff. His definition is so simple and I can't see why mine doesn't conform. In fact, in his 1st example he's dealing with a 48 naked pair but takes a circuitous route from one cell to the other.

"An AIC Type 2 starts and ends on a strong link for two different digits in two cells, that see each other. This proves that the end digit can't be in the start cell and the start digit cannot be in the end cell."
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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Marty R. » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:41 pm

I don't usually bother with lclste solutions any more. If I can't find a singles solution I usually don't post.


Steve, I'd be very interested in your reasons for this

The subject fascinates me. When I see stte or lcstte appended to the solution I don't know what to do with it or what I COULD do with it and don't know why I should or should not append that data. What would YOU do if I posted it?
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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:43 pm

omerosler wrote: Why go through all this trouble?
Now that you know (maybe) the rules...I can only add:
!. Thank you for your initial post!
2. Enjoy the ride!

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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:44 am

Marty R. wrote:
I don't usually bother with lclste solutions any more. If I can't find a singles solution I usually don't post.


Steve, I'd be very interested in your reasons for this


It's not a big deal, Marty. It's just that my goal is to find a singles solution. I'd rather keep trying to do that until I get tired than to settle for an easier solution. even if it means that I end up posting nothing. To each his own.

The subject fascinates me. When I see stte or lcstte appended to the solution I don't know what to do with it or what I COULD do with it and don't know why I should or should not append that data. What would YOU do if I posted it?


I'd read your solution and enjoy. We're here to have a good time and to share how we approach these puzzles. I'm always interested in your solutions, whatever you choose to post.
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Re: June 5, 2016

Postby Ngisa » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:57 am

Marty R. wrote:
Code: Select all
+-----------+--------------+-----------+
| 7  8   1  | 3    6    24 | 5  24 9   |
| 6  3   5  | 124  14   9  | 27 8  47  |
| 4  2   9  | 5    8    7  | 6  1  3   |
+-----------+--------------+-----------+
| 39 5   8  | 249  347  24 | 1  6  247 |
| 2  147 34 | 6    1347 8  | 9  47 5   |
| 19 147 6  | 1249 1457 15 | 8  3  247 |
+-----------+--------------+-----------+
| 13 9   34 | 8    145  15 | 27 27 6   |
| 8  6   2  | 7    9    3  | 4  5  1   |
| 5  14  7  | 14   2    6  | 3  9  8   |
+-----------+--------------+-----------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site

(1=5)r7c6-(5=1)r6c6-r6c1=r7c1=> -1r7c6

Leren, is this a valid AIC Type 2?
It is not. There must be a contradiction in the chain. Your assumption is that: 1 cannot be in r7c6, the chain still shows that it cannot be in r7c6. It is a loop, in this case an x-wing on 1 in col 16.
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