June 25, 2016

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June 25, 2016

Postby ArkieTech » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:22 pm

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |.98|3.1|...|
 |..4|..8|3..|
 |.2.|.5.|.8.|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|...|.5.|
 |..3|8.6|7..|
 |.8.|...|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |.1.|.8.|.7.|
 |..9|4..|6..|
 |...|6.9|84.|
 *-----------*


Play/Print this puzzle online
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby Leren » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:47 am

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*
|g567    9      8       | 3      46     1       | 45     2     f457     |
| 1567   56     4       |b279   c269    8       | 3      19     579     |
| 3      2      1-7     |a79     5     a47      | 149    8      6       |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 1679   46     127     | 1279   3      247     | 1249   5      8       |
| 159    45     3       | 8     d249    6       | 7      19    e249     |
| 179    8      127     | 12579  249    2457    | 1249   6      3       |
|-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
| 4      1      6       | 25     8      3       | 259    7      259     |
| 8      7      9       | 4      1      25      | 6      3      25      |
| 2      3      5       | 6      7      9       | 8      4      1       |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*

(7) r3c46 = (7-2) r2c4 = r2c5 - r5c5 = (2-4) r5c9 = (4-7) r1c9 = (7) r1c1 => - 7 r3c3; stte

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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:02 am

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 |f567    9      8      | 3    bf46     1      |f45     2     e457    |
 | 1567   56     4      | 279   b269    8      | 3      19     579    |
 | 3      2      1-7    |a79     5     a47     | 149    8      6      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 1679   46     127    | 1279   3      247    | 1249   5      8      |
 | 159    45     3      | 8     c249    6      | 7      19    d249    |
 | 179    8      127    | 12579  249    2457   | 1249   6      3      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 4      1      6      | 25     8      3      | 259    7      259    |
 | 8      7      9      | 4      1      25     | 6      3      25     |
 | 2      3      5      | 6      7      9      | 8      4      1      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


(7=49)r3c46 - (4|9=26)r12c5 - 2r5c5 = (2-4)r5c9 = r1c9 - (4=567)r1c157 => -7 r3c3 ; stte

Yikes! Almost the same as Leren.
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby JC Van Hay » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:09 am

Basics to the end !?
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby Leren » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:06 am

JC Van Hay wrote:Basics to the end !?

I think stte is correct, Leren
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby JC Van Hay » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:58 am

Leren wrote:
JC Van Hay wrote:Basics to the end !?

I think stte is correct, Leren
Well, I meant : basics solve the puzzle !?
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby Leren » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:56 am

OK the penny has finally dropped on JC's seemingly obscure comments (to me anyway).

The puzzle is solvable with two Skyscrapers (plus singles of course). Are these moves considered to be basics ? I certainly don't look for them in the daily puzzles and if a daily was solvable with just one of these moves I think we'd think it was too easy. I guess that if you think they are basics I suppose you'd have to include Kites and Empty Rectangles, which are also two Strong link moves like Skyscrapers. And what about a Grouped Skyscraper. It's also a Finned X Wing, which most people would regard as non-basic although a little on the easy side.

There would also have to be 3 endings for single non-basic move puzzles : stte, lclste and basics-to-the-end (btte ?), to cover the case where a non-basic move was followed by one or more of the above mentioned moves. I'm pretty sure lclste only includes singles, pointing pairs & triples plus naked and hidden pairs, triples and quads.

I'm going to let Dan adjudicate on all this, seeing as he provides the puzzles. Whatever he decides I'll accept.

Leren

PS for the puzzle for April 7th 2014, which you can see here here I solved it with a Grouped Skyscraper/Finned X Wing. I wasn't bothered but Steve solved it with an Empty Rectangle and asked Dan if the puzzle was a mistake, presumably because it was too easy. We are still waiting for an answer.

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Last edited by Leren on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby ArkieTech » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:51 am

Leren wrote:I'm going to let Dan adjudicate on all this, seeing as he provides the puzzles. Whatever he decides I'll accept.


These puzzles are designed to highlight different ways to solve and show solutions to Sudoku puzzles. Variety is invited.

To me:

ste or stte means "Singles To the End"

lclste means "Locked Cells or Locked Sets To the End"

sste means "Simple Sudoku command set To the End" I do not use this one.

I show a candidate grid after locked sets and locked cells are resolved from the original givens.

Basic or "basic moves" is in the eye of the beholder.

Hope this helps.
Last edited by ArkieTech on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:06 am

Code: Select all
.-----------------.-----------------------.-----------------.
|  567    9   8   |  3       c46    1     | 45     2    457 |
|  1567   56  4   |  29-7    c269   8     | 3      19  a579 |
|  3      2   17  | c79       5    c47    | 149    8    6   |
:-----------------+-----------------------+-----------------:
|  1679   46  127 |  1279     3     247   | 1249   5    8   |
| b159   b45  3   |  8      b249    6     | 7     b19  a249 |
|  179    8   127 |  12579    249   2457  | 1249   6    3   |
:-----------------+-----------------------+-----------------:
|  4      1   6   |  25       8     3     | 259    7   a259 |
|  8      7   9   |  4        1     25    | 6      3   a25  |
|  2      3   5   |  6        7     9     | 8      4    1   |
'-----------------'-----------------------'-----------------'
(7=4)r2578c9 - (4=2)r5c1258 - (2=7)r12c5,r3c46 => -7 r2c4; lclste
8-)
8-)
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:50 pm

ArkieTech wrote:
Leren wrote:Basic or "basic moves" is in the eye of the beholder.


Yes, but for (only) the purpose of doing one-step solutions to the dailies, we've agreed that "basics" do not include anything more advanced than locked candidates and locked sets. Many of the dailies are btte if we allow X-wings, skyscrapers, kites, and the like as basics. To some of the solvers in here, finned franken sashimi squirmbags are basic.

So what? As Dan says, "These puzzles are designed to highlight different ways to solve and show solutions to Sudoku puzzles. Variety is invited." Let's keep the definition of basics for this purpose as what we've agreed on to establish a starting point. If someone thinks the puzzle is too easy to bother with, then don't bother with it.

And, yes, in response to Leren's pointing out that I've expressed surprise at finding a daily to be solvable with a single move just slightly less basic than our "basics", I plead guilty. Consistency isn't my middle name, but I'll endeavor to do better.
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby JC Van Hay » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:57 pm

Some comments :

Basics = Application of the Sudoku Rule : 1. a digit is present once and only once in each unit AND 2. each unit contains a permutation of the 9 digits.
Basics only require "finding eliminations that are common to all possible cases" of 1. a digit constraint, for each digit, AND 2. of a cell, in each unit.
Note : in the first case, even if branching is needed, Keith's principle greatly simplifies the analysis as it avoids "templating".
Interpretation of the eliminations : N-Fishes AND N-tuples.

PS :
1. An optimized and efficient solution doesn't necessarily require all the basics.
2. sste = basics + wings
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Re: June 25, 2016

Postby DonM » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:41 am

ArkieTech wrote:
Leren wrote:I'm going to let Dan adjudicate on all this, seeing as he provides the puzzles. Whatever he decides I'll accept.


These puzzles are designed to highlight different ways to solve and show solutions to Sudoku puzzles. Variety is invited.

To me:
sste means "Simple Sudoku command set To the End" I do not use this one.


Fwiw: I don't recall this ever being used. I do know that SSTS was used at the introduction to a puzzle which started after the Simple Sudoku Technique Set.
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