July 27, 2018

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July 27, 2018

Postby ArkieTech » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:31 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |49.|.1.|...|
 |..7|..6|...|
 |.65|89.|4..|
 |---+---+---|
 |3..|..5|96.|
 |...|.8.|...|
 |.59|1..|..7|
 |---+---+---|
 |..1|.58|62.|
 |...|3..|5..|
 |...|.2.|.49|
 *-----------*


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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SCLT » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:20 pm

Code: Select all
+------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
|  4       9      38     | e57    1     2      | f378   f3578   6      |
|  128     1238   7      |  45    34    6      |  1238   9      1258   |
|  12      6      5      |  8     9    a37     |  4      3-7    12     |
+------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
|  3       148    48     |  2     7     5      |  9      6      148    |
|  1267    1247   246    | c69    8    b39     |  123    135    1245   |
|  268     5      9      |  1     346   34     |  238    38     7      |
+------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
|  79      47     1      |  479   5     8      |  6      2      3      |
|  26789   2478   2468   |  3     46    1479   |  5      178    18     |
|  5       378    368    | d67    2     17     |  178    4      9      |
+------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+


(7=3)r3c6 - (3=9)r5c6 - (9=6)r5c4 - (6=7)r9c4 - r1c4 = r1c78 => -7 r3c8 ; stte
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SteveG48 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:47 pm

Code: Select all
 *---------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 4      9      38     |  5-7    1      2      | 378    3578   6      |
 | 128    1238   7      |  45     34     6      | 1238   9      1258   |
 | 12     6      5      |  8      9      37     | 4      37     12     |
 *----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------|
 | 3      148    48     |  2      7      5      | 9      6      148    |
 | 1267   1247   246    | b69     8      39     | 123    135    1245   |
 | 268    5      9      |  1      346    34     | 238    38     7      |
 *----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------|
 | 79     47     1      | a479    5      8      | 6      2      3      |
 | 26789  2478   2468   |  3     a46     149-7  | 5      178    18     |
 | 5      378    368    |ab67     2      1-7    | 178    4      9      |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------------*


Is this another Sue-de-coq variant?

(7=469)b8p157 - (9=67)r29c4 => -7 r1c4,r89c6 ; stte
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby pjb » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:07 pm

Code: Select all
 4       9       38     |b57     1      2      | 378    3578   6     
 128     1238    7      |a45     3-4    6      | 1238   9      1258   
 12      6       5      | 8      9      37     | 4      37     12     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 3       148     48     | 2      7      5      | 9      6      148   
 1267    1247    246    | 69     8      39     | 123    135    1245   
 268     5       9      | 1      346    34     | 238    38     7     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 79      47      1      | 79-4   5      8      | 6      2      3     
 26789   2478    2468   | 3     d46     1479   | 5      178    18     
 5       378     368    |c67     2      17     | 178    4      9     

(4=5)r2c4 - (5=7)r1c4 - (7=6)r9c4 - (6=4)r8c5 => -4 r2c5, r7c4; stte

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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SCLT » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:03 pm

SteveG48 wrote:Is this another Sue-de-coq variant?


Nice example of an overlapping ALS-XZ, but no Sue-de-Coq this time
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SteveG48 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:51 pm

SCLT wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:Is this another Sue-de-coq variant?


Nice example of an overlapping ALS-XZ, but no Sue-de-Coq this time


Thanks. I knew that the shared 6 in the bivalue pairs ruined it, but I thought it might be a recognized variation.
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SpAce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:17 pm

SCLT wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:Is this another Sue-de-coq variant?

Nice example of an overlapping ALS-XZ, but no Sue-de-Coq this time

Could it be seen as a Death Blossom (r5c4 as the stem, r9c4 and b8p157 as the petals), though?
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby Sudtyro2 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:48 pm

Code: Select all
+------------------+----------------+-----------------+
| 4     9    38    | b57  1   2     |a378# c3578 6    |
| 128   1238 7     |  45  34  6     | 1238  9    1258 |
| 12    6    5     |  8   9   37    | 4    c37   12   |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------+
| 3     148  48    |  2   7   5     | 9     6    148  |
| 1267  1247 246   |  69  8   39    | 123   135  1245 |
| 268   5    9     |  1   346 34    | 238  c38   7    |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------+
| 79    47   1     |  479 5   8     | 6     2    3    |
| 26789 2478 2468  |  3   46  1479  | 5    c18-7 18   |
| 5     378  368   |  67  2   17    | 178   4    9    |
+------------------+----------------+-----------------+

In 7s, a finned franken 1-Fish c7\b9 + rfr1c7# => - 7r8c8; stte
7r1c7 - (7=5)r1c4 - (5=3781)r1368c8 - 7r8c8; abc

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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SpAce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:33 pm

Sudtyro2 wrote:In 7s, a finned franken 1-Fish c7\b9 + rfr1c7# => - 7r8c8; stte
7r1c7 - (7=5)r1c4 - (5=3781)r1368c8 - 7r8c8; abc

Lol. I love this! Why make it simple when you can make it complicated? :D Shouldn't "kraken" be added to the name, though? Or does "rf" imply that, as in "remote fin" or something?)? Also, I don't understand why the elimination cell is part of your ALS; why not: (5=387)r136c8 ?
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby Sudtyro2 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:43 pm

Good points! Yes, it's also Kraken because it leaves the 7s grid. And yes, your shorter third node is simpler, but I derived the strong link from a simple bb-plot that immediately shows the strong link between 5r1c8 and 1r8c8 by eliminating r5c8. No time to polish! :)

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Last edited by Sudtyro2 on Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SpAce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:59 pm

Sudtyro2 wrote:And yes, your shorter third node is simpler, but I derived the strong link from a simple bb-plot that immediately shows the strong link between 5r1c8 and 1r8c8 by eliminating r5c8. No time to polish! :)

No need to! It's perfect as it is. I was just blind to the alternative way to see the elimination, so my mistake. Thanks for the explanation!
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SteveG48 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:39 pm

SpAce wrote:
SCLT wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:Is this another Sue-de-coq variant?

Nice example of an overlapping ALS-XZ, but no Sue-de-Coq this time

Could it be seen as a Death Blossom (r5c4 as the stem, r9c4 and b8p157 as the petals), though?


It certainly could, but the folks in here convinced me long ago that a DB with fewer than 3 petals is unworthy. :D
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SpAce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:55 pm

SteveG48 wrote:
SpAce wrote:Could it be seen as a Death Blossom (r5c4 as the stem, r9c4 and b8p157 as the petals), though?

It certainly could, but the folks in here convinced me long ago that a DB with fewer than 3 petals is unworthy. :D

Well, I guess it would be similar to presenting a regular AIC as a two-way Kraken, so I'd probably have to agree with that sentiment :)
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   
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Re: July 27, 2018

Postby SpAce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:20 pm

I have a question about the two overlapping ALSs in Steve's solution. What can we know from the fact that they fully share the same digits (4679)? It sure looks like a pattern of some kind, but is it? A BARN of some kind? I have no clue. Anyway, I was also wondering if there's a way to prove that all those digits are locked into the combined structure, using the CoALS rule perhaps? That would give us an extra elimination of 4r8c6 (not that it matters here). In other words, can someone write a piece of logic to make the following work:

Code: Select all
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 4      9      38     |  5-7    1      2      | 378    3578   6      |
 | 128    1238   7      |  45     34     6      | 1238   9      1258   |
 | 12     6      5      |  8      9      37     | 4      37     12     |
 *----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------|
 | 3      148    48     |  2      7      5      | 9      6      148    |
 | 1267   1247   246    | A69     8      39     | 123    135    1245   |
 | 268    5      9      |  1      346    34     | 238    38     7      |
 *----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------|
 | 79     47     1      |AB479    5      8      | 6      2      3      |
 | 26789  2478   2468   |  3     B46     19-47  | 5      178    18     |
 | 5      378    368    |AB67     2      1-7    | 178    4      9      |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------------*

??? => -7 r1c4,r89c6; -4 r8c6
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   
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