July 20, 2015

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July 20, 2015

Postby ArkieTech » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:41 pm

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |...|9..|.53|
 |...|...|42.|
 |...|83.|1..|
 |---+---+---|
 |7.3|...|9..|
 |.8.|.4.|..1|
 |..2|6..|3..|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|...|...|
 |86.|...|..9|
 |4.9|..1|.6.|
 *-----------*


Play/Print this puzzle online
Last edited by ArkieTech on Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby JC Van Hay » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:20 pm

Code: Select all
+--------------------+---------------+-----------+
| 2(1)  2(17)  8     | 9    27   4   | 6   5   3 |
| 39    39     5(67) | 1    567  567 | 4   2   8 |
| 256   25     4     | 8    3    256 | 1   9   7 |
+--------------------+---------------+-----------+
| 7     145    3     | 2    15   58  | 9   48  6 |
| 569   8      5(6)  | 35   4    359 | 2   7   1 |
| 19    149    2     | 6    179  789 | 3   48  5 |
+--------------------+---------------+-----------+
| 235   2357   157   | 357  69   69  | 8   13  4 |
| 8     6      157   | 4    25   235 | 57  13  9 |
| 4     357    9     | 357  8    1   | 57  6   2 |
+--------------------+---------------+-----------+
To be noted : 1r1c1=(1-7)r1c2=(7-6)r2c3=6r5c3 or r1c1=1=r1c2=7=r2c3=6=r5c3
r1c2=7 -> contradiction :=> r2c3=7; stte.
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby pjb » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:35 pm

Code: Select all
a12      127     8      | 9      7-2    4      | 6      5      3     
 39      39      567    | 1      567    567    | 4      2      8     
 56-2    5-2     4      | 8      3     e256    | 1      9      7     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 7       145     3      | 2      15     58     | 9      48     6     
b569     8       56     | 35     4     c359    | 2      7      1     
a19      149     2      | 6      179    789    | 3      48     5     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 235     2357    157    | 357    69     69     | 8      13     4     
 8       6       157    | 4      25    d235    | 57     13     9     
 4       357     9      | 357    8      1      | 57     6      2     

(2=9)r16c1 - r5c1 = (9-3)r5c6 = (3-2)r8c6 = r3c6 => -2 r1c5, r3c12; stte

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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby Leren » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:04 am

Code: Select all
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
| a12    127   8      | 9     27    4      | 6     5     3      |
| a39    39    567    | 1     567   567    | 4     2     8      |
|  256  b25    4      | 8     3     256    | 1     9     7      |
|---------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
|  7    c145   3      | 2     15    58     | 9     48    6      |
|  56-9  8     56     | 35    4     359    | 2     7     1      |
|ca19   c149   2      | 6     179   789    | 3     48    5      |
|---------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
|  235   2357  157    | 357   69    69     | 8     13    4      |
|  8     6     157    | 4     25    235    | 57    13    9      |
|  4     357   9      | 357   8     1      | 57    6     2      |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*

ALS XY Wing: (9=2) r126c1 - (2=5) r3c2 - (5=9) r4c2, r6c12 => - 9 r5c1; stte

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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby bat999 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:26 am

Code: Select all
.------------------.-----------------.------------.
| *12   *27-1  8   | 9     27    4   | 6    5   3 |
|  39    39    567 | 1     567   567 | 4    2   8 |
| *256  *25    4   | 8     3     256 | 1    9   7 |
:------------------+-----------------+------------:
|  7    *145   3   | 2     15    58  | 9    48  6 |
| *569   8     56  | 35    4    *359 | 2    7   1 |
| *19   *149   2   | 6     179   789 | 3    48  5 |
:------------------+-----------------+------------:
| *235   2357  157 | 357   69    69  | 8   *13  4 |
|  8     6     157 | 4     25   *235 | 57  *13  9 |
|  4     357   9   | 357   8     1   | 57   6   2 |
'------------------'-----------------'------------'

AIC: (7)r1c2 = (12)r1c12 - (2=5)r3c2 - (5)r4c2 = (149)r4c2,r6c12 - (9)r5c1 = (9-3)r5c6 = (3)r8c6 - (3=1)r8c8 - (1=3)r7c8 - (3)r7c1 = (256)r357c1 - (2=1)r1c1
=> -1 r1c2; stte
This chain is supposed to read from l-to-r "If r1c2 is not 7 then r1c1 is 1".
:o
Last edited by bat999 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
8-)
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby daj95376 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:11 am

Code: Select all
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  12    127   8     |  9     27    4     |  6     5     3     |
 |  39    39    567   |  1     567   567   |  4     2     8     |
 |  256   25    4     |  8     3     256   |  1     9     7     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  7     145   3     |  2     15    58    |  9     48    6     |
 |  569   8     56    |  3-5   4     359   |  2     7     1     |
 |  19    149   2     |  6     179   789   |  3     48    5     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  235  *37+25 157   | *37+5  69    69    |  8     13    4     |
 |  8     6     157   |  4     2-5   23-5  |  57    13    9     |
 |  4    *37+5  9     | *37+5  8     1     |  57    6     2     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 60 eliminations remain

 5r79c4 = 5r5c4 - 5r5c13 = 5r4c2 - (5=2)r3c2 \
                                 - 5r79c2     - 2r7c2 =UR= 5r79c4  => -5 r5c4,r8c56

_
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby Leren » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:12 am

bat999 wrote :

AIC: (7)r1c2 = (12)r1c12 - (2=5)r3c2 - (5)r4c2 = (149)r4c2,r6c12 - (9)r5c1 = (9-3)r5c6 = (3)r8c6 - (3=1)r8c8 - (1=3)r7c8 - (3)r7c1 = (256)r357c1 - (2=1)r1c1 - (1)r2c1 => -1 r1c2; stte
This chain is supposed to read from l-to-r "If r1c2 is not 7 then r1c2 is not 1".

There is a typo in your chain - the last term should be - (1) r1c2. Also there is no reason why you can't read the chain from right to left to conclude that r1c2 <> 7 also, so it's 2.

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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby bat999 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:06 am

Leren wrote:... There is a typo in your chain - the last term should be - (1) r1c2...

That's fixed now, thanks. :)
8-)
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby bat999 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:42 am

bat999 wrote:
Leren wrote:... There is a typo in your chain - the last term should be - (1) r1c2...

That's fixed now, thanks. :)

doh, that last term shouldn't be there at all.
:oops:
8-)
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby Ngisa » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:15 am

Code: Select all
+--------------+-------------+---------+
| a12  127  8   | 9   7-2  4   | 6  5  3 |
| 39  39   567 | 1   567 567 | 4  2  8 |
| 56-2 5-2   4   | 8   3   g256 | 1  9  7 |
+--------------+-------------+---------+
| 7   145  3   | 2   15  58  | 9  48 6 |
| c569 8    c56  | d35  4   359 | 2  7  1 |
| b19  149  2   | 6   179 789 | 3  48 5 |
+--------------+-------------+---------+
| 235 2357 157 | 357 69  69  | 8  13 4 |
| 8   6    157 | 4   25  f235 | 57 13 9 |
| 4   357  9   | e357 8   1   | 57 6  2 |
+--------------+-------------+---------+
Almost like pjb
(2=1)r1c1-(1=9)r6c1-(9=65)r5c13-(5=3)r5c4-r9c4=(3-2)r8c6=(2)r3c6 => -2r3c12, r1c5; stte

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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby SteveG48 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:40 pm

Code: Select all
 *-------------------------------------------------------------*
 | cC1-2f  127   8     | 9    B27    4     | 6     5     3     |
 |   39    39    567   | 1     567   567   | 4     2     8     |
 |   256   25e   4     | 8     3     256   | 1     9     7     |
 *---------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 |   7     145d  3     | 2     15    58    | 9     48    6     |
 |   569c  8     56c   | 35b   4     359b  | 2     7     1     |
 |  b19    149   2     | 6   aA179a  789   | 3     48    5     |
 *---------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 |   235   2357  157   | 357   69    69    | 8     13    4     |
 |   8     6     157   | 4     25    235   | 57    13    9     |
 |   4     357   9     | 357   8     1     | 57    6     2     |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------*


Kraken cell [179]r6c5 => -2 r1c1 ; stte

(1)r6c5 - r6c1                                    = (1-2)r1c1
  ||
(7)r6c5 - (7=2)r1c5                                 - (2)r1c1
  ||
(9)r6c5 - (9=35)r5c46 - (5)r5c13 = r4c2 - (5=2)r3c2 - (2)r1c1

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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby daj95376 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:44 pm

bat999 wrote:
Code: Select all
.------------------.-----------------.------------.
| *12   *27-1  8   | 9     27    4   | 6    5   3 |
|  39    39    567 | 1     567   567 | 4    2   8 |
| *256  *25    4   | 8     3     256 | 1    9   7 |
:------------------+-----------------+------------:
|  7    *145   3   | 2     15    58  | 9    48  6 |
| *569   8     56  | 35    4    *359 | 2    7   1 |
| *19   *149   2   | 6     179   789 | 3    48  5 |
:------------------+-----------------+------------:
| *235   2357  157 | 357   69    69  | 8   *13  4 |
|  8     6     157 | 4     25   *235 | 57  *13  9 |
|  4     357   9   | 357   8     1   | 57   6   2 |
'------------------'-----------------'------------'


Code: Select all
AIC:

 (7)r1c2 = (12)r1c12 - (2=5)r3c2 - (5)r4c2 = (149)r4c2,r6c12 - (9)r5c1 =
 (9-3)r5c6 = (3)r8c6 - (3=1)r8c8 - (1=3)r7c8 - (3)r7c1 = (256)r357c1 -
 (2=1)r1c1  =>  -1 r1c2; stte

This chain is supposed to read from l-to-r "If r1c2 is not 7 then r1c1 is 1".


You have a problem. Your logic isn't an AIC because it remembers an earlier state. Specifically, you remember "- (9)r5c1" when you perform "- (3)r7c1 = (256)r357c1". There are five values in r357c1 -- not four.

You asked me to share (in the thread) how to not encounter this problem.

Before you start solving a grid for a chain, imagine that you've already created a list of all SLs in the grid. Now, your chain must be created as a sequence of SLs from this list. This is an extra constraint on the forcing chain stream logic that was previously discussed.

_
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby bat999 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:21 pm

daj95376 wrote:... Before you start solving a grid for a chain, imagine that you've already created a list of all SLs in the grid. Now, your chain must be created as a sequence of SLs from this list....

Very good explanation, thanks. :D
"(3)r7c1 = (256)r357c1" would not have been on my imaginary list because there's a 9 at r5c1 to spoil it. :x
With this puzzle I know that "If r1c2 is not 7 then r1c1 is 1" is true because I can make it work with pencil and paper (pencilmarks on my pencilmarks). :twisted:
But it's not a valid AIC so it's wrong to post the solution expressed as an AIC. :(
Got it. 8-)
8-)
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby ronk » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:50 pm

daj95376 wrote:
Code: Select all
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  12    127   8     |  9     27    4     |  6     5     3     |
 |  39    39    567   |  1     567   567   |  4     2     8     |
 |  256   25    4     |  8     3     256   |  1     9     7     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  7     145   3     |  2     15    58    |  9     48    6     |
 |  569   8     56    |  3-5   4     359   |  2     7     1     |
 |  19    149   2     |  6     179   789   |  3     48    5     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  235  *37+25 157   | *37+5  69    69    |  8     13    4     |
 |  8     6     157   |  4     2-5   23-5  |  57    13    9     |
 |  4    *37+5  9     | *37+5  8     1     |  57    6     2     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 60 eliminations remain

 5r79c4 = 5r5c4 - 5r5c13 = 5r4c2 - (5=2)r3c2 \
                                 - 5r79c2     - 2r7c2 =UR= 5r79c4  => -5 r5c4,r8c56

A great opportunity to use a "quantum naked pair."
Code: Select all
 5r79c4 =UR= (qnp25)r379c2 - 5r4c2 = 5r5c13   =>  r5c4<>5; ste
r8c56<>5 is not required.
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Re: July 20, 2014

Postby daj95376 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:33 pm

ronk wrote:A great opportunity to use a "quantum naked pair."
Code: Select all
 5r79c4 =UR= (qnp25)r379c2 - 5r4c2 = 5r5c13   =>  r5c4<>5; ste
r8c56<>5 is not required.

Excellent!

I started with a SIN for =3r8c8 leading to the DP in the UR cells. I must have worked it a half-dozen different ways to settle on my solution. I wish that I had recognized that I'd been working with the qnp().

_
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