January 26, 2019

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January 26, 2019

Postby ArkieTech » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:47 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |4..|..3|..1|
 |.5.|6.1|.2.|
 |..1|...|7..|
 |---+---+---|
 |96.|8.2|.3.|
 |...|.5.|...|
 |.1.|9.6|.78|
 |---+---+---|
 |..5|...|9..|
 |.7.|2.8|.4.|
 |1..|7..|..2|
 *-----------*


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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby SpAce » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:44 pm

Code: Select all
.-----------------------.-------------.----------------.
| 4     a29     a269    | 5   7     3 | 68    689  1   |
| 7      5    ba(3)9    | 6   8     1 | 34    2    349 |
| 368    38      1      | 4   2     9 | 7     5    36  |
:-----------------------+-------------+----------------:
| 9      6       7      | 8   14    2 | 145   3    45  |
| 238    2348    248-3  | 13  5     7 | 1246  169  469 |
| 5      1       24-3   | 9   34    6 | 24    7    8   |
:-----------------------+-------------+----------------:
| 2368   238     5      | 13  136   4 | 9     168  7   |
| 36     7     b(3)69   | 2   1369  8 | 1356  4    356 |
| 1      3489    4689-3 | 7   369   5 | 368   68   2   |
'-----------------------'-------------'----------------'

WXYZ-Wing: (3=926)b1p623 - (6=93)r82c3 => -3 r569c3; stte
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby eleven » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:03 pm

hard to find another one

Code: Select all
 *----------------------------------------------------------------*
 |  4    ia29   ha269     |  5    7      3  |  68     68-9  1     |
 |  7      5    hb3-9     |  6    8      1  |  34     2     349   |
 |  368    38     1       |  4    2      9  |  7      5     36    |
 |------------------------+-----------------+---------------------|
 |  9      6      7       |  8   e14     2  |  145    3    f45    |
 | d238   d2348  c2348    | e13   5      7  |  1246   169   469   |
 |  5      1     c234     |  9    34     6  |  24     7     8     |
 |------------------------+-----------------+---------------------|
 |  2368   238    5       |  13   136    4  |  9      168   7     |
 | g36     7    gb369     |  2    1369   8  |  1356   4    g356   |
 |  1      3489   34689   |  7    369    5  |  368    68    2     |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------*

(29=6)r1c23 - (6=3)r28c3 - r56c3 = r5c12 - (3=4)r5c4,r4c5 - (4=5)r4c9 - (5=9)r8c139 - r12c3 = r1c2 => -9r1c8,r2c3
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:00 pm

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 4     f29    f269    | 5      7      3      | 68     689    1      |
 | 7      5     e3-9    | 6      8      1      | 34     2      349    |
 | 368    38     1      | 4      2      9      | 7      5      36     |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 9      6      7      | 8     c14     2      | 145    3     b45     |
 | 238    2348   2348   | 13     5      7      | 1246   169    469    |
 | 5      1     e234    | 9     d34     6      | 24     7      8      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2368   238    5      | 13     136    4      | 9      168    7      |
 |a36     7    ae369    | 2      1369   8      | 1356   4     a356    |
 | 1      3489   34689  | 7      369    5      | 368    68     2      |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


(9=356)r8c139 - (5=4)r4c9 - r4c5 = (4-3)r6c5 = (369)r268c3 - (6=29)r1c23 => -9 r2c3 ; stte
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby Ngisa » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:52 pm

Code: Select all
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+
| 4       29      29-6  | 5      7       3 | 68      689    1   |
| 7       5      a39*   | 6      8       1 | 34      2      349 |
|a368    a38      1     | 4      2       9 | 7       5      36  |
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+
| 9       6       7     | 8      14      2 | 145     3      45  |
| 238     2348    2348  |i13     5       7 | 1246   h169    469 |
| 5       1      j23*4  | 9     j34      6 |j24      7      8   |
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+
| 238-6   238     5     |f13    f136     4 | 9      g168    7   |
| 3-6     7     kb369   | 2     e1369    8 | 1356    4      356 |
| 1      c3489   b34689 | 7     d369     5 | 368     68     2   |
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+

(6=38|9*)r3c12,r2c3 - (9)r89c3 = r9c2 - r9c5 = (9-1)r8c5 = r7c45 - r7c8 = r5c8 - (1=3)r5c4 - (3=243*)r6c357 - (3*9*=6)r8c3 => - 6r1c3,r78c1; stte

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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:59 pm

Ngisa wrote:
Code: Select all
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+
| 4       29      29-6  | 5      7       3 | 68      689    1   |
| 7       5      a39*   | 6      8       1 | 34      2      349 |
|a368    a38      1     | 4      2       9 | 7       5      36  |
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+
| 9       6       7     | 8      14      2 | 145     3      45  |
| 238     2348    2348  |i13     5       7 | 1246   h169    469 |
| 5       1      j23*4  | 9     j34      6 |j24      7      8   |
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+
| 238-6   238     5     |f13    f136     4 | 9      g168    7   |
| 3-6     7     kb369   | 2     e1369    8 | 1356    4      356 |
| 1      c3489   b34689 | 7     d369     5 | 368     68     2   |
+-----------------------+------------------+--------------------+

(6=38|9*)r3c12,r2c3 - (9)r89c3 = r9c2 - r9c5 = (9-1)r8c5 = r7c45 - r7c8 = r5c8 - (1=3)r5c4 - (3=243*)r6c357 - (3*9*=6)r8c3 => - 6r1c3,r78c1; stte

Clement


Nice solution, Clement. Given the discussion over the past couple of days, I would, however, like to comment on the notation.
First, you don't want the | symbol in your first term. If 6 is not true in that set of sells, 3, 8 and 9 are all true. The "or" symbol invalidates your next step.
Second, I think most of us like to use the stars so that the first use is to the right of the digit referenced (as in your first term), and the second is to the left, as if they are pointing at one another.
Most importantly, your tenth term is technically incorrect. You can't have 3 on both side of the equal sign. That would say that if it isn't true then it's true.
I would write the chain:

(6=389*)r3c12,r2c3 - (9)r89c3 = r9c2 - r9c5 = (9-1)r8c5 = r7c45 - r7c8 = r5c8 - (1=3)r5c4 - (3=24)r6c57 -(2|4=3)r6c3 - (3*9=6)r8c3 => - 6r1c3,r78c1; stte
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby SpAce » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:25 pm

SteveG48 wrote:I would write the chain:
(6=389*)r3c12,r2c3 - (9)r89c3 = r9c2 - r9c5 = (9-1)r8c5 = r7c45 - r7c8 = r5c8 - (1=3)r5c4 - (3=24)r6c57 -(2|4=3)r6c3 - (3*9=6)r8c3 => - 6r1c3,r78c1; stte

I fully agree with your points regarding the original chain and the corrections. However, I'd simplify the whole chain a bit:

(6=389)b1p786 - (9=365)r8c139 - (5=4)r4c9 - r4c5 = (4-3)r6c5 = (396)r628c3 => -6 r1c3,r78c1; stte

PS. That's not to say there was anything wrong with Clement's original, except for the few notation details -- it got the job done, which is all that matters.

PPS. Added: Incidentally, I just noticed that written my way it turns out to be very similar to Steve's own. In that light, Clement's original is more unique.
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby Ngisa » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:34 am

SpAce wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:I would write the chain:
(6=389*)r3c12,r2c3 - (9)r89c3 = r9c2 - r9c5 = (9-1)r8c5 = r7c45 - r7c8 = r5c8 - (1=3)r5c4 - (3=24)r6c57 -(2|4=3)r6c3 - (3*9=6)r8c3 => - 6r1c3,r78c1; stte

I fully agree with your points regarding the original chain and the corrections. However, I'd simplify the whole chain a bit:

(6=389)b1p786 - (9=365)r8c139 - (5=4)r4c9 - r4c5 = (4-3)r6c5 = (396)r628c3 => -6 r1c3,r78c1; stte

PS. That's not to say there was anything wrong with Clement's original, except for the few notation details -- it got the job done, which is all that matters.

PPS. Added: Incidentally, I just noticed that written my way it turns out to be very similar to Steve's own. In that light, Clement's original is more unique.
Thanks to both of you SpAce and Steve for your constructive comments on my chain. However I would like to say something on the first step of my chain, the symbol | indicates an Unordered group in a box, I did not imply "or", so, 9 must be in r2c3 if 6 is not in r3c1, therefore the next step in the chain is valid. The Eureka notation is explained in Sudopedia on Multiple-digit Concept Diagrams where he gives an example of (1)r5c4|r6c45 as Unordered group in a box. I think I should have written the first term as (6=389*)r3c12|r2c2 instead of using commas. It is still open for discussion.
By the way what do the symbols b and p stand for which I see in your chains?
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby Ngisa » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:13 pm

Ngisa wrote:
SpAce wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:I would write the chain:
(6=389*)r3c12,r2c3 - (9)r89c3 = r9c2 - r9c5 = (9-1)r8c5 = r7c45 - r7c8 = r5c8 - (1=3)r5c4 - (3=24)r6c57 -(2|4=3)r6c3 - (3*9=6)r8c3 => - 6r1c3,r78c1; stte

I fully agree with your points regarding the original chain and the corrections. However, I'd simplify the whole chain a bit:

(6=389)b1p786 - (9=365)r8c139 - (5=4)r4c9 - r4c5 = (4-3)r6c5 = (396)r628c3 => -6 r1c3,r78c1; stte

PS. That's not to say there was anything wrong with Clement's original, except for the few notation details -- it got the job done, which is all that matters.

PPS. Added: Incidentally, I just noticed that written my way it turns out to be very similar to Steve's own. In that light, Clement's original is more unique.
Thanks to both of you SpAce and Steve for your constructive comments on my chain. However I would like to say something on the first step of my chain, the symbol | indicates an Unordered group in a box, I did not imply "or", so, 9 must be in r2c3 if 6 is not in r3c1, therefore the next step in the chain is valid. The Eureka notation is explained in Sudopedia on Multiple-digit Concept Diagrams where he gives an example of (1)r5c4|r6c45 as Unordered group in a box. I think I should have written the first term as (6=389*)r3c12|r2c3 instead of using commas. It is still open for discussion.
By the way what do the symbols b and p stand for which I see in your chains?
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby SteveG48 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:32 pm

Ngisa wrote:Thanks to both of you SpAce and Steve for your constructive comments on my chain. However I would like to say something on the first step of my chain, the symbol | indicates an Unordered group in a box, I did not imply "or", so, 9 must be in r2c3 if 6 is not in r3c1, therefore the next step in the chain is valid. The Eureka notation is explained in Sudopedia on Multiple-digit Concept Diagrams where he gives an example of (1)r5c4|r6c45 as Unordered group in a box. I think I should have written the first term as (6=389*)r3c12|r2c2 instead of using commas. It is still open for discussion.


Hmm. Difference of conventions here. To me the symbol | is the logical symbol for "or". I think that's how others here are using it.

By the way what do the symbols b and p stand for which I see in your chains?


It's an alternate to the row/column symbols for identifying cells. They stand for box and point. We count boxes from right to left and top to bottom. Within the box, we count points the same way- right to left and top to bottom. It's just a way to shorten the notation when a set of cells is confined to one box. Compare what you wrote to what SpAce wrote and you'll see that they're the same.
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Re: January 26, 2019

Postby SpAce » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:57 pm

Ngisa wrote:I would like to say something on the first step of my chain, the symbol | indicates an Unordered group in a box

I know that the Sudopedia really says so, because I learned it from you in an earlier discussion about the same thing. However, I have never seen anyone besides you use it that way, so it's certain to cause confusion. The Sudopedia notation is outdated on that part.

By the way what do the symbols b and p stand for which I see in your chains?

Glad you asked, if it's been unclear, because I use them a lot! It's just a way to avoid comma-separated cell-groups in boxes, as Steve already explained. Nothing wrong with the other way either. For example, my first node (6=389)b1p786 translates directly into your (6=389)r3c12,r2c3 and vice versa.
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